The Smuggling discussion thread

[Muetdhiver]

The thing is that the payouts are over the top only if you use the open/solo re-log, or if you wait forever for BB resfresh to stack a load of high-pay missions.

Note that BB refresh trough solo/open is not a silver bullet, and only speeds the whole thing by a factor of two.
Nerfing the payouts without fixing the relog is the wrong way to go, as it will push people to do it even more, or go back to grindy/less fun* way
of making credits (looking at you bulk trading).

I think that simply having higher cargo requirements (i.e. remove the 1-5 tons missions), will lead to less missions stacked,
unless one uses a larger/slower ship. Coupled with mission failing on scans this makes smuggling even more interesting :

• Use a fast/stealthy ship with low cargo, low risk of being scaned, payout in line with other activities (since missions need more cargo)
• Use a slower ship/larger ship (higher scan risk, possible loss of outpost missions), higher payout but higher risk of losing all the missions to one scan.

Income in the 15m/h for people with elite trade rank is ok IMO, these players already have > 1B credits.



*To be clear, some players like this type of gameplay (I for one enjoy peacefull mining), and I have nothing against it. I just think that :

1. it should not be the only way to make good money for a high-ranked trader
2. it should possible to do it in a more fun/exciting and less static way (i.e. more like smuggling)
3. I would love to see rare related delivery/smuggling missions to enhance the rare trading gameplay.

 

[Riedquat]

Where was all of your risk reward argument when traders can make more than this with a 1 jump trade run 10 times with alot less risk. This takes as long and you get more risk in almost every jump then the 10 trade jumps. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me

Ive been saying it since release , the game just isnt dangerous enough, there is very little risk.

If they sorted out the system security levels and made the economy more dynamic than we would have a very different game on our hands (a more fun one).

There is no risk in the game, I can get out of every situation I get into, these missions are no different.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The thing it not the amount of credits making it more or less exciting. Smuggling will be exciting with or without large profits.

The thing is that for the very first time, players can make large amounts money AND have some real fun at the same time.

Instead of having to worry about credits 80% of the time, so we can enjoy the remaining 20% in more fun but devoid of revenue activities like CGs or player-generated events, or mining, or exploring, or escorting traders, or helping noobs, without the dread of rebuys or outfitting needs or getting set back.
Now people could spend 20% of the time worrying about money while having fun, and have 80% of the time to dedicate to fun-only or different non-profitable activities.

Its a matter of what people prefer in this game: working 80% of the time to get money to enjoy the remaining 20%, or working 20% of the time to enjoy the other 80%. This is the real question behind all this smuggling debate, its a question the trancends smuggling and actually extends to the whole game. Do people want more game time working or more time having fun.

Both choices are valid, everyone has their own wishes and opinion about what this game should be, but the first choice seems too much like real life to me, and I already have one, don't need two. But that's just my opinion.

I'm not getting this worried about credits business at all.

Never mind me. I was just puzzled about the sentiment. I'm not suggesting to kill anyone's fun, in whatever way it presents itself.

 

[Cyda]

Something exciting comes along in the game and what do you shout... nerf nerf nerf!

Once they nerf it you can all go back to complaining about how boring the game is.

I couldn't agree more. This is actually fun, why do people feel the need to try to get it changed? I can make as much money as this in my tradeconda but it gets dull as hell, at least this is enjoyable. In my last smuggling run I got interdicted 4 times, fined once and barely escaped another, by the time I got to my destination and crept in the slot to land I was literally sitting on the edge of my seat and breathed a huge sigh of relief as I started to lower in to the hanger. It was awesome! This is what I wanted from Elite dangerous!!

And people want this nerfed....

 

[jimbeau1571]

I go back to what I posted earlier, if you concentrate less on 'grinding' cr and more on enjoiying the game, you'll find less to moan and groan about.

 

[kepler84]

Something exciting comes along in the game and what do you shout... nerf nerf nerf!

Once they nerf it you can all go back to complaining about how boring the game is.

That.

Seriously, if everytime FD comes with something new, people gets mad at them, they will never try to implement significant changes.

Look what has happened with just implementing long range missions. long range missions, the most basic improvement you could possibly create.

And you expect them to create more deep mission content? After that? Good luck.

If I was a gameplay designer there, I would say: Ok guys, just put moar ships and make sure the planetary landings don't generate too much revenues or the people who don't own horizons will make a mess on the forums.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I go back to what I posted earlier, if you concentrate less on 'grinding' cr and more on enjoiying the game, you'll find less to moan and groan about.

Sure, sure.

But why not just make it so that every activity makes very roughly the same amount of credits* ? (Instead of having some activities paying 5-10x times more than others)
Because if boring activity A makes 10x more than fun activity B, even if B is fun, a lot will do 75% A and 25% B so they can access to some ship they fancy in a sanity-preserving timeframe.
That is if the time you need doing B to see progress (e.g. get a new ship) is so long that it feel like a grind, you might as well do it with A in 10x less time.
And yes, big surprise, most players (IMO) like to feel they are progressing while having fun. Which Atm means getting new ships.




*For a given rank in explo/trade/combat

 

[Joe Akeem]

It's the most fun i've had in months. Pure adrenalin trying to outsmart authorities and bandits. In my last run I had a pirate + investigating cop on my tail. My hull was at 48% and just a few 100 LS from destination. I turned around full speed, nearly hitting the sun and managed to pull up in a nice approach vector. Jumped out in front of the station just before they had me lined up.

Used up my last Heat sink and screamed thru the letterbox 1 sec after they initiated scan.
The rather harsh touchdown (no shields) shaved off another 10% hull. As the hanger bay lowered I just sat there staring and laughing like a maniac. Pure gold!

 

[Ziljan]

Here's what I'm puzzled about.

Smuggling for many millions is exiting. Smuggling for a few million is boring.

Is it the millions that make it exciting, and not the interdiction evasions? In that case, FD can make this game the most exiting ever by making everything worth 10 times as much so you get 20-25 million per mining trip, 20-25 million per hour of bounty hunting, make Earthlikes be worth 10 million, and every pirated ton of cargo gives you several million pirate incentive bonus.

You are all winners and billionaires!!!

It's not the money, it's the whole gameplay experience. Smuggling includes a very real chance of failure, and a fair bit of skill if you are doing bulk long distance smuggling missions in a trade specced long range Asp. I am a decent combat pilot, and yet I have found that occasionally the NPCs spawned by the smuggle missions can be quite deadly to an lightweight Asp with paper shields. On a single smuggle run with several bundled missions, I ended up at stations with 36% hull several times, and wasn't able to repair because it was an outpost. But I was no where near done with my missions, and still being hunted by NPC pirates and cops. On only 1 out of 4 runs have I been hit with this level of challenge by several consecutive Elite NPCs in faster stronger ships. So honestly, I think the difficulty of smuggling should be dialed up a bit. Make it so that if you are successfully scanned before docking, the mission fails. Not just a minor penalty, but also no reward.

 

[Joe Akeem]

...I think the difficulty of smuggling should be dialed up a bit. Make it so that if you are successfully scanned before docking, the mission fails. Not just a minor penalty, but also no reward.

Couldn't agree more. And while we're at it. They (FD) should take away some of the safety nets like emergency drops, or at least boost up the damage from said drop. Keep you on your toes, where you wanna be (to paraphrase Pacino)

 

[CaptainKremmen]

The thing is that the payouts are over the top only if you use the open/solo re-log, or if you wait forever for BB resfresh to stack a load of high-pay missions.

Rubbish. Sorry, but it is.

Just visit the other "non-Sothis" systems in that little cluster, and pick missions from each one. In Open. One session. Then run them all back to the bubble.


[edit] Sorry... Mr Grumpy today. Ignore my grumpiness. Sorry!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

@Ziljan. Which means you agree with me

And you'll have to be satisfied with that until I spread my rep-love around.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Getting back to being not-grumpy...

Make it so that if you are successfully scanned before docking, the mission fails. Not just a minor penalty, but also no reward.

That's really good.

 

[jimbeau1571]

And from I have read, all the complaints seem to come from the 'Race to Anaconda' types who are now there but don't like the game evolving to make it less of a slog for the newer members to get to it.

Put that aside, if you choose to go down the path of doing the 75% option less fun more cr, and not your 25% more fun less cr, IMO your missing the point and essence of the game and its experience.

At the end of the day, once you reach a certain amount of Cr assets, probably around the 300Mil mark (my guess, I'm only at 30Mil) your pretty much done with grinding Cr as they become easy to come by through a days trading or shooting it up in Haz RES. So your looking for the fun.
So why not look for the fun from the start, make it less of a grind, make slower progress but see the depth of the game that is there in abundance.

 

[racer1]

Non BB smuggling question!

Is anyone still seeing over 4000 cr/tonne profit from independent/bulk smuggling of imperial slaves?

My route only gets the same cr/tonne as legal trading now. I buy at 13500 and sell at 16000, used to sell at 18000.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Rubbish. Sorry, but it is.

Just visit the other "non-Sothis" systems in that little cluster, and pick missions from each one. In Open. One session. Then run them all back to the bubble.


[edit] Sorry... Mr Grumpy today. Ignore my grumpiness. Sorry!

haha, its all right, I know that you can do the cluster dance ^^, but again, if the cargo requirements were larger you would not be able to stack 10 of those missions.
Plus, I got nothing against players having to visit different stations with illegal cargo to pick up even more of it ^^. Even more so if missions would be to fail on one
successfull scan.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

haha, its all right, I know that you can do the cluster dance ^^, but again, if the cargo requirements were larger you would not be able to stack 10 of those missions.
Plus, I got nothing against players having to visit different stations with illegal cargo to pick up even more of it ^^. Even more so if missions would be to fail on one
successfull scan.

Yeah, it would self-balance, to a large extent. Roll the dice and risk it all to get even more illicit cargo, or take what you've got on board and quietly leave on your run?

 

[Zieman]

@Ziljan. Which means you agree with me

And you'll have to be satisfied with that until I spread my rep-love around.

I nominate ½ of the +1 rep I could give as given by you Ziggy.

 

[CMDR Derrida]

The Sothis Smuggling 'EXPLOIT'?

Yesterday nearly 2000 Cmdr's passed through Sothis, over 1200 of them in Asps. I spent a couple of hours in the area last night, listening to the now predictable conversations about how best to refresh the mission list in order to make 100 - 150 million credits in one day.
At the same time, I had other cmdr's complain that they couldn't find anyone to go undermining with them; that space was 'empty'.
In the two hours I spent there, flying from one place to another, I managed to get 6 million credits worth of missions in two hours.
To me this seems like a big exploit which will destabilise the game if it is not patched.
What do you think?

 

[simonharrison]

I think there's already enough threads on this subject....