The Smuggling discussion thread

No this is it, slack. It's been merged. Not too happy myself, as I thought the different threads about it were going in different directions. That, and it's utterly confusing now :(


All i know is im getting rich XD

Edit: I'm thinking the original le of my post wasnt very pleasing to FD's ears. And i have to admit using the word "nerf" probably wont be my choice for future posts. The good news is, someone at Frontier IS listening. Someone IS reading these posts, editing them, merging them ect.. So at least the conversation has been started and has a chance to lead to something.
 
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New smuggling missions turn out to be not so OP (my 2 cents about new smuggling).

So after hearing how OP new smuggling is, and reading some angry topics on forum about it, i decided to try it myself.
For two days i did it cobra, bot getting money on Asp (was low on cash), and getting trading rank (was rank Merchant then i started, currently just 1 rank up - Broker).
Today i got max outfitted (for smuggling) Asp, and wanted to test out how much exactly it profitable in money.time spent.

After doing my normal daily merits farm to maintain rank-5 in powerplay, i've departed in my Asp at 17:15 of my local time.
I arrived to Sothis station at 17:41, having 21 million credits on my account.
Asp's cargohold, even with shield and fuel scoop still was major upgrade from Cobra (54 tons). But that also meant that i had to spend much more time on getting enough mission to feel up cargohold to maximum. Additionally to that i already noticed that Frontier today nerfed probability on getting long range missions. Nearly all smuggling mission was to nearby system, which obviously payed crap. More to that i still had to skip a lot of penless/unfriendly missions, which also provided relatively low reward.
I was able to fill up my cargo up to 53 tons only at 18:29 local time (48 minutes since i docked). Turn out to be 10 missions. Obviously to 10 different systems.
Second thing i noticed that interdiction sometime really can be nasty. In one system, after submitting to interception (as i couldn't jump in time), i had not just one ship, but 4 more ship dropping to instance about 5 seconds later. My poor A3 shield went down very quick, and i was extremely lucky not to be mass locked at that time, and thus escaping only with small hull damage.
Besides that i was interdicted many times. Didn't get more such harsh drops, but still all those interdiction slowed me down greatly.
Last mission i was able to complete only at 20:01 local time, and was at 69 million profit. Thus 48 millions in 2 hours 46 minutes, or roughly 17 millions a hour.

So obviously nothing like "OMG, its 60 million in 20 minutes!". Tbh i not sure how numbers like that popped out. I guess ppl just did single Elite rank mission in 20 minutes, taking into account only time of undock from Sothis station, and until mission completion (but not even time to travel to Sothis), and then multiplied that profit by maximum cargohold capacity, as if they would be able to take several missions instantly, and completing them all at once as well :p
More to that, such kind of activity is not of the sort where you can go like "ah, i am too tired - i'll finish it tomorrow". Nope, missions have timer, and usually you have to complete them all in 6 hours maximum.
Finally, its not semi-AFK job. Besides normal pirates, who will try to interdict you because you have cargo, you will have missions specific NPCs, that will try to intercept you all the time, and local security, will also often will try to intercept you because you carrying illegal cargo.

So, yeah, 17 millions per hour in Asp and Broker rank.
Is it good profit? - sure. Is it OP? - nope. Get rank-5 with Zachary Hudson or ALD, and you not only get 50 millions weekly salary, but also TWICE bounties in new Hazardous sites and compromised NAV beacons. Only CNBs and HESs can already provide over 17m/h profit in bounties.
Is it more profitable compared to normal trading? Probably yes, even comparing to Type-9. But first of all, as it was said on another topic, what kind of smuggling it is if it pays LESS than normal trading? And second, its nowhere as relaxing and semi-AFK gameplay as normal trading. Plus like i said earlier, you can't quit it at any time. Only when you complete all missions.
 
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I guess the word OP (overpowered), means different things do different people.

A week ago you needed a very expensive ship to make at most 10mill/hr, and that would be one heck of a trader route. I was never able to make more than 8-9 mill/hr Conda trading.

ALD/Hudson takes a long time and a lot of money to get to lvl5 and a lot of work/money to maintain it. You will not make 20mill/hr not even close. And dont forget there is a lot of cargo to be moved so again you need a very expensive ship to do it efficiently in the first place.

Personally im getting like triple the profit from smuggling vs any other activity in the game, but even if i wasnt.. Even if it was on par... its still unbalanced as I dont need to buy a 150mill Conda to do it. I can just hop in a cobra/asp and start making huge credits right off the bat, without paying my dues. Reality is tho that it is more profitable by at least a factor of 2.
 
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I guess the word OP (overpowered), means different things do different people.

A week ago you needed a very expensive ship to make at most 10mill/hr, and that would be one heck of a trader route. I was never able to make more than 8-9 mill/hr Conda trading.

ALD/Hudson takes a long time and a lot of money to get to lvl5 and a lot of work/money to maintain it. You will not make 20mill/hr not even close. And dont forget there is a lot of cargo to be moved so again you need a very expensive ship to do it efficiently in the first place.

Personally im getting like triple the profit from smuggling vs any other activity in the game, but even if i wasnt.. Even if it was on par... its still unbalanced as I dont need to buy a 150mill Conda to do it. I can just hop in a cobra/asp and start making huge credits right off the bat, without paying my dues. Reality is tho that it is more profitable by at least a factor of 2.


You have yet to feel the backlash.

Even so it beats A to B spread sheet trading
 
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Still, the old saying two wrongs don't make a right applies. in E: D *ALL* of the bulletin board missions involving (legal or illegal) seem to be generating unfeasible amounts of cash for what is actually being done. It's not just smuggling per se. Likewise earning 50 million credits per week from PowerPlay strikes me as, erm, excessive, as is doubling bounties.
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Not digging at anyone, I don't really care who's got what ship and how long they took to get it, just that, the 'believability' of the universe and 'willing suspension of disbelief' are shot for me at present. When moving a few tonnes of scrap pays as much as assassination or bounty hunting, something's amiss.
 
You have yet to feel the backlash.

Even so it beats A to B spread sheet trading

They can fix it by doing one simple thing imo. Prevent the ability to refresh the bulletin board to get only premium missions by logging in and out.

It would also fix the exploit of logging in and out and spamming charity missions to rank up.
 
I guess the word OP (overpowered), means different things do different people.

A week ago you needed a very expensive ship to make at most 10mill/hr, and that would be one heck of a trader route. I was never able to make more than 8-9 mill/hr Conda trading.

Personally im getting like triple the profit from smuggling vs any other activity in the game, but even if i wasnt.. Even if it was on par... its still unbalanced as I dont need to buy a 150mill Conda to do it. I can just hop in a cobra/asp and start making huge credits right off the bat, without paying my dues. Reality is tho that it is more profitable by at least a factor of 2.

Agreed. Small ships needed some buffs to make them effective and usable, hence I agree in principle, to things like mass based interdiction to give them utility - but this seems like too great an attempt to level the playing field against bulk trading, which has always been the most profitable elements of the Elites.
 
Still, the old saying two wrongs don't make a right applies. in E: D *ALL* of the bulletin board missions involving (legal or illegal) seem to be generating unfeasible amounts of cash for what is actually being done. It's not just smuggling per se. Likewise earning 50 million credits per week from PowerPlay strikes me as, erm, excessive, as is doubling bounties.
.
Not digging at anyone, I don't really care who's got what ship and how long they took to get it, just that, the 'believability' of the universe and 'willing suspension of disbelief' are shot for me at present. When moving a few tonnes of scrap pays as much as assassination or bounty hunting, something's amiss.

well said... Just like when I got caught smuggling illicit cargo, the fine was 1.9 million, but then i "murder" someone and get a 15k fine..
 
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I think the primary issue with this is the same that was true for High RES sites before HAZ RES was introduced.

This is that the random generator that creates missions can be gamed by logging in and out, switching modes, to increase the number of missions artificially.

People were doing the same in RES by waking in and out, or logging, to reset the instance to its maximum profit generation ability.

I believe that FD should leave smuggling mission and RES income alone, but fix these two behaviors where out of game mechanics (reloading, changing modes, etc) are inflating the productivity of these two careers.

I propose increasing the amount of missions per station by 2-3 times, but implementing a persistent timer that preserves a player's mission lists in stations between logins and game modes.
 
well said... Just like when I got caught smuggling illicit cargo, the fine was 1.9 million, but then i "murder" someone and get a 15k fine..

Not to mention the reputation hits and becoming a known criminal. Get caught enough and you end up Hostile and then they scan you at the station and find yourself Wanted in no time. Some folk are in for a bit of a surprise.
 
Sorry 17 mill an hours still sounds op.

I guess with ed making it easier and easier, 17 mill an hour is not excessive to you but to the average player with a few hours a week to play this is alot.
 
To the OP: Very nicely done, and well said.

Appreciate your work and outline on this. +REP!

I did something similar a couple days ago but didn't fill up my cargo, just took four missions, and came to the same conclusions you did.

- - - Updated - - -

They can fix it by doing one simple thing imo. Prevent the ability to refresh the bulletin board to get only premium missions by logging in and out.

It would also fix the exploit of logging in and out and spamming charity missions to rank up.


Or they can limit the number of missions you can have at one time from the BB, such as 2 or 3.
 
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Get rank-5 with Zachary Hudson or ALD, and you not only get 50 millions weekly salary, but also TWICE bounties in new Hazardous sites and compromised NAV beacons. Only CNBs and HESs can already provide over 17m/h profit in bounties.
How much exactly can you make per hour with this powerplay bonus?
 
They can fix it by doing one simple thing imo. Prevent the ability to refresh the bulletin board to get only premium missions by logging in and out.

It would also fix the exploit of logging in and out and spamming charity missions to rank up.

Completely agree. Randomizing the universe by playing login bingo until the odds are in your favor will obviously skyrocket revenues and give a false impression of the dimension of such revenues. Either BB, RES, etc.

Nerfing the game in order to adjust the outcomes for the login bingo players will only harm the gameplay of those who play the game in a legit normal manner, encouraging everyone to play login bingo to get the "normal" revenues. It would be extremely lame if FD goes this way, although it would be much easier for them, as they probably haven't designed the game to account for persistence across login sessions. But if the game would be tuned for exploiters would be very lame.

To be honest I don't really give a damn if other players play Elite:Lotto, I just don't want the game nerfed for normal players in order to tone it down for the login bingo revenues.
 
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Completely agree. Randomizing the universe by playing login bingo until the odds are in your favor will obviously skyrocket revenues and give a false impression of the dimension of such revenues. Either BB, RES, etc.

Nerfing the game in order to adjust the outcomes for the login bingo players will only harm the gameplay of those who play the game in a legit normal manner, encouraging everyone to play login bingo to get the "normal" revenues. It would be extremely lame if FD goes this way, although it would be much easier for them, as they probably haven't designed the game to account for persistence across login sessions. But if the game would be tuned for exploiters would be very lame.

To be honest I don't really give a damn if other players play Elite:Lotto, I just don't want the game nerfed for normal players in order to tone down the login bingo revenues.
You have the wrong impression how this works. It is not always resetting
 
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