Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[The Wallet Inspector]

I once suggested the billboards outside docking hatches have advertising for the Mobius Group on them.

The Open Only crowd didn't like that idea one bit. Something about it turning open into a wasteland - funny how a month later they were complaining it was one anyway.

We won't get an Open PvE mode. That's why I've stopped supporting the idea.

The only fair thing to do is remove open, that way we are all equal and no one can say FD favor one mode over another or say rewards are unfair in Amy mode, as we will all be in private groups like Mobius or its PvP counterpart

"The only fair thing to do is remove open"

This of course is not fair, in my opinion. It sounds more like a reaction to this thread, than something based on the actual game data. For instance, there are no numbers on how many play in Open, so claims it is a "wasteland" are entirely subjective. I remember seeing many posts claiming "There are no pilots online" the same night I saw hundreds of them, So we have to take such claims with a pinch of salt. Also, this is such a minority viewpoint (see above poll, though it is a tiny sample) that it would probably not be in the interests of FDEV, though I do not claim to be an authority on this, just another opinion. I do wonder though, since so many seem to support PvE, if this poster thinks there is no chance of getting it, I wonder if the chances of Open mode being removed are any greater? Why back that horse, when it appears to be even less race worthy?

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lol this discussion still running? i wonder if new "solo is bad for the game" facts r up...

No one saying that as far as I am aware. Apparently there is now a suggestion to delete Open play, but I think it is a non starter (just my opinion though).

 

[fademist]

No one saying that as far as I am aware. Apparently there is now a suggestion to delete Open play, but I think it is a non starter (just my opinion though).

u read the 1st two parts?

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

u read the 1st two parts?

No, i was referring to your comment regarding the debate as it is now. apparently those views are not welcome here, as they are offensive to people who play in Solo. Ironic though, given it is apparently not offensive to suggest removing a mode that has always existed. I don't care much though, people are free to make suggestions. It would be silly to take offence just because you do not share an opinion. I think the mode should stay, I don't mind solo mode. Besides, who has the time to read through 25000 posts Either way, it probably would not change my opinion, though I imagine it would be fun to read some of the things that have apparently been said

 

[Cody]

We won't get an Open PvE mode.

<nods> I doubt there'll be any change at all, as it happens!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

<nods> I doubt there'll be any change at all, as it happens!

Yeah this is what I am hoping for, the status quo to remain.

 

[Faded Glory]

<nods> I doubt there'll be any change at all, as it happens!

I imagine you are imagining correctly...

 

[Jockey79]

u read the 1st two parts?

Alas, no one researches anymore. Even with me providing the links.(on my phone now, sig won't work while I'm mobile)

All the problems start with "Open";

Open has more risk,
Open needs more players,
Open needs better rewards,
Open is a wasteland,
Open is unfair,
Open is full of griefers,

The the problems are open.
So remove open, job done

No open = no problems

Simple.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Alas, no one researches anymore. Even with me providing the links.(on my phone now, sig won't work while I'm mobile)

All the problems start with "Open";

Open has more risk,
Open needs more players,
Open needs better rewards,
Open is a wasteland,
Open is unfair,
Open is full of griefers,

The the problems are open.
So remove open, job done

No open = no problems

Simple.

I find this deeply ironic. Especially given the manner in which this poster claimed "getting rid of solo" was deemed a deeply offensive suggestion. Either way, this is probably a radical position, and I honestly don;t think it has much gravity. The Op is entitled to it though, as an open player, I do not feel offended at all. Also, I thought this poster said that Open being riskier was "debunked", yet it is given as a reason to get rid of open. This is why I cannot follow the argument, it seems very emotive, subjective and reactionary, and the reasons keep changing. I do not think Open is "unfair", I think all the game modes are equal and valid. perhaps he feels Open is unfair on him, but that is subjective. I understand that some players are not comfortable dealing with other players attacking them, but there are modes provided to help with that. Solo for instance.

 

[Dave1235]

I once suggested the billboards outside docking hatches have advertising for the Mobius Group on them.

The Open Only crowd didn't like that idea one bit. Something about it turning open into a wasteland - funny how a month later they were complaining it was one anyway.

We won't get an Open PvE mode. That's why I've stopped supporting the idea.

The only fair thing to do is remove open, that way we are all equal and no one can say FD favor one mode over another or say rewards are unfair in any mode, as we will all be in private groups like Mobius or its PvP counterpart

I like the bill board idea, I understand why they do not lol.

I agree with you on most things but I can't back removing open, you might be right that we will never see a PVP mode in the menu and I do see where you are coming from in regard to removing open, but I disagree.

CQC is a fun quick fix, I have had some fun testing (the Hutton Mug stole my last week) but I don't think it can replace open.

My main goal is to ensure everyone who owns the game realises they have a PVE option, I hope it happens as a PVE option would likely be many times busier than Mobius ~ 800k players are not members of this forum!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I like the bill board idea, I understand why they do not lol.

I agree with you on most things but I can't back removing open, you might be right that we will never see a PVP mode in the menu and I do see where you are coming from in regard to removing open, but I disagree.

CQC is a fun quick fix, I have had some fun testing (the Hutton Mug stole my last week) but I don't think it can replace open.

My main goal is to ensure everyone who owns the game realises they have a PVE option, I hope it happens as a PVE option would likely be many times busier than Mobius ~ 800k players are not members of this forum!

"CQC is a fun quick fix, I have had some fun testing (the Hutton Mug stole my last week) but I don't think it can replace open."

Agreed! Open should stay, and i cannot see it EVER being removed as long as the game is still "alive" As for billboard, well I imagine it would not go down well if other groups like The Code got to advertise there

 

[Dave1235]

Well, to be honest, the more I think about it, the cleaner it would be with two Open modes and Solo. Groups are a very fragmentary way of matchmaking (although I understand that some people presumably only want to play with their own friends), but I'd have thought that if strangers couldn't shoot at you or impede you in any way then just seeing them in the game wouldn't be that bad.

Of course human nature being what it is, you'd probably get 'vocal griefers', just being offensive over comms, so perhaps how it is now is better. What is it that they say, "It's because of people that you cannot have nice things"?

I really think groups would have to stay, I have seen examples where family members play together and no parent wants to let their child see foul language, in open (pve or pvp) there is no way to block this.

Not too sure how the PEGI thing works but if I had a 12 year old and the game changed after I bought 2 copys, so the only way we could play together was in open and my kid got abused in chat I would not be happy, in fact I would be very unhappy!

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lol this discussion still running? i wonder if new "solo is bad for the game" facts r up...

Oh do keep up old chap, that will be around Wednesday after the next merge

 

[Faded Glory]

I really think groups would have to stay, I have seen examples where family members play together and no parent wants to let their child see foul language, in open (pve or pvp) there is no way to block this.

Not too sure how the PEGI thing works but if I had a 12 year old and the game changed after I bought 2 copys, so the only way we could play together was in open and my kid got abused in chat I would not be happy, in fact I would be very unhappy!

Yep, agree entirely, hence my comment about 'vocal griefers'. Even the option to block players from comms would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I really think groups would have to stay, I have seen examples where family members play together and no parent wants to let their child see foul language, in open (pve or pvp) there is no way to block this.

Not too sure how the PEGI thing works but if I had a 12 year old and the game changed after I bought 2 copys, so the only way we could play together was in open and my kid got abused in chat I would not be happy, in fact I would be very unhappy!

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Oh do keep up old chap, that will be around Wednesday after the next merge

"Oh do keep up old chap, that will be around Wednesday after the next merge "

Haha, I look forward to seeing this Right now it all seems to be about ditching Open alltogether. It seems the pendulum of extremism swings all over in this place

"Not too sure how the PEGI thing works but if I had a 12 year old and the game changed after I bought 2 copys, so the only way we could play together was in open and my kid got abused in chat I would not be happy, in fact I would be very unhappy!"

I let my daughter play, she is 5 (in open play as well!). She loves zooming around inside the Coriolis, though she does a bit damage. I understand this. May be worth mentioning though, I have never heard anything abusive in the game yet, over mic or in chat. That is just me though.

 

[Dave1235]

Alas, no one researches anymore. Even with me providing the links.(on my phone now, sig won't work while I'm mobile)

All the problems start with "Open";

Open has more risk,
Open needs more players,
Open needs better rewards,
Open is a wasteland,
Open is unfair,
Open is full of griefers,

The the problems are open.
So remove open, job done

No open = no problems

Simple.

+1 for phone tenacity

I 100% agree that its not the solo or group* CMDR's moaning, asking for extra CR for the extra risk (of flying in a wing with 3 pals to protect them & getting 15% trade bonus already).

Even more than they already get because a CMDR may or may not attack them in the gankfest/desert that open is, no matter if they are in lave or 100k ly out exploring.

The contradictions make me lol, "we need more due to the risk of other players", "we need to force everyone into open its empty", so many people have said they play in open and never see anyone.

I have already changed my view on how open pve should/could work, I will continue to read your posts with an open mind as I do everyone's.

* Can't forget groups, they rarely get a mention so I had to remind everyone they are a third of the vs in the title!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

+1 for phone tenacity

I 100% agree that its not the solo or group* CMDR's moaning, asking for extra CR for the extra risk (of flying in a wing with 3 pals to protect them & getting 15% trade bonus already).

Even more than they already get because a CMDR may or may not attack them in the gankfest/desert that open is, no matter if they are in lave or 100k ly out exploring.

The contradictions make me lol, "we need more due to the risk of other players", "we need to force everyone into open its empty", so many people have said they play in open and never see anyone.

I have already changed my view on how open pve should/could work, I will continue to read your posts with an open mind as I do everyone's.

* Can't forget groups, they rarely get a mention so I had to remind everyone they are a third of the vs in the title!

"I 100% agree that its not the solo or group* CMDR's moaning"

Again, given this is quoting a post filled with complaints, i find this ironic. We are all commanders here, pretending only one set "moans" would be an obvious falsehoods

"Even more than they already get because a CMDR may or may not attack them in the gankfest/desert that open is, no matter if they are in lave or 100k ly out exploring."

All game modes are equal and valid. No bonuses for ANY of them really, except in my opinion, I think Open is more dangerous, but that is just my perspective

Anyway, I am done for the night. It is interesting though, I seem to be the only one advocating for the status quo, but so many posters seem to say very nasty things about people who play in Open, and make claims about them that are simply not true. Either way, I will continue to counter these claims with honest and respectful debate. Anyway, good night everyone And remember, it is just a game, no one forces us to play, and no one actually gets hurt when your ship is destroyed (at least I don't, this is just my subjective opinion). PEACE

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I would like to thank you Arcadius. You have provided a decent discussion on the issue for the past few days. One day I hope FD realises that these issues cause players problems and that they need to look into them.

No probs, thx for the kind words

 

[relayer]

When I started getting involved in this thread (about mid-Second megathread) I actually went back and read every post from Mark I to current so I'd be informed about the issues and debates on both sides. Took about a week of on/off reading. I don't suppose many new posters here do that.

A couple major points seem to come up again and again:

1. Most solo or group players position seemed to be "let the three modes stand" (this was before the more-recent 'Open-PVE' movement). This is still iterated by new posters. Solo/group players haven't asked for anything extra.

2. The open-pvp-pewpew crowd complaining that they didn't have enough to do (less weak targets) and wanted special rewards for playing in open, or taking something away from the solo/group players because "risk."

3. Those same players often say "open isn't that risky; you can go 100-200LY out and never meet anyone." This conflicts with other posters who want those extra rewards because "open is more risk." You can't have it both ways.

4. The complaints about "people going into safe-mode (solo/group) and earning their $$$ for a combat ship and then coming into open" conflicts with the often-boasted-of combat prowess and "anyone coming from solo is a good target because they never learned to fight against NPCs." Also, see #5, below.

5. Some players that argue for the "make everyone play in open because barren wasteland" have actually said they have gone into solo mode to earn merits or credits. Yep, the same ones arguing about penalizing solo are using it to benefit themselves. This is why I say it's a player problem, not a mode problem.

6. Again, solo/group people keep saying "the 3 modes work as advertised; let them stand." A newer "Open-PVE" mode is also discussed; one that would take nothing away from open "anything goes" mode. But this is not acceptable to the pvpewpewpew crowd.

7. Murderous thugs do not seem to be able to accept that the state of open as it stands now is directly related to their own actions. The "barren wasteland" they claim open is has become that way because of their playstyle. Solo/group has nothing to do with that.

So either open is a barren wasteland, "not that bad" or "more risk" - you can't hold all three views at once.

 

[DarkWalker]

The the problems are open.
So remove open, job done

No open = no problems

Simple.

A compromise solution might be to clearly show that Open is merely a group, albeit the default one, by changing the hierarchy and/or labels of the start menu. No change in functionality needed.

The same could be done for Solo.

 

[DarkWalker]

So either open is a barren wasteland, "not that bad" or "more risk" - you can't hold all three views at once.

And I still laugh remembering some posts that actually tried to further the three arguments simultaneously

 

[fademist]

Alas, no one researches anymore. Even with me providing the links.(on my phone now, sig won't work while I'm mobile)

All the problems start with "Open";

Open has more risk,
Open needs more players,
Open needs better rewards,
Open is a wasteland,
Open is unfair,
Open is full of griefers,

The the problems are open.
So remove open, job done

No open = no problems

Simple.

us i liked the idea isnt good ...all ppl need and entitled their way of fun but then is when the logic of others must do what the x-y player want