Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Robert Maynard]

They changed the method of travel "to allow for the multiplayer nature of the game". There's numerous other examples of how the game was designed first and foremost around multiplayer.

It's like if I baked you a cake, and you remove the icing, I'm ok with that, enjoy, but I didn't intend for you to eat plain cake.

I m not discussing what the game is to you, or what you were promised, I'm talking about design, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. He built an mmo, that's not really an opinion, that is fact. The fact that he added solo, or says "they are all valid ways to play" means nothing in the context of what I am discussing.

Of course the travel method was changed - some game elements needed to be change (compared to the later games in the series) to accommodate multi-player - time-compression in a multi-player game would not work. So, for the game to work as a multi-player game, elements were changed. That does not mean that it was not designed to be played in other ways, merely that elements were changed across all three game modes to be consistent.

The contention relates to your opinion that Solo and Private Groups were "tacked on". Logically, Private Groups are still multi-player. The quote talks about playing with friends - if that was only going to be able to be achieved in Open play then why mention that one would be able to play with friends in a multi-player game?

While the game is a multi-player online game, it has been designed to be played in three distinct game modes (game modes which are simply different settings on the common matchmaking system).

 

[ianw]

There is a quote from DB somewhere where he said he envisioned players playing together co-operatively. They also said PVP was "enabled".

As time went on other things came out but they didn't position it as a PVP fest initially.

And it is a multiplayer game in all modes - in their definition at least..

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The entire Game, with one expection (Wings) is build to be working Multiplayer and Singleplayer.

and even that is due to the game not being complete (yet?) as opposed to a deliberate design choice imo.

lots of talk in the early days of players being able to hire NPC wingmen which would mean wings in solo as well.

 

[Dogoncrook]

Tacked on?

A feature that was advertised BEFORE they started making the game and was one of the main selling points for the Kickstarter campaign.
By no stretch of the imagination can be called "tacked on" when the entire game was designed and built on that feature.




Funny how that quote says "you can play with your friends too" not have to or should but that you have the choice, you "can".



That is a massive assumption about what DBOBE talks about, which ignores a previous comment from DBOBE;

“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."

And other comments like it from Frontier in the last link in my Sig (Wall of Information)

If the game was designed around solo you wouldn't need to connect to a server, you would be able to pause and save etc. Saying this game was designed around solo is laughable. You aren't refuting what I said when you say he wants us to play how we want. Your basically sitting here saying "I like turtles"..

Again I'm talking about the design of the game. It's clearly an mmo, that allows you to play solo, not the other way around. I'm glad you like solo, I'm glad he promised you solo. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying and you haven't offered any evidence the game was designed around solo, other than saying solo exists, and he said he's ok with you playing that way. And why wouldn't he be? Why would he add it and say, but I'd rather you not? I mean that's a given right?

And I've made it clear when I've speculated on his intentions, pointing it out again is redundant.

Its self evident that this is an mmo, and pointing at any comments even braben himself saying "it's not an mmo" doesn't change that.

 

[Mouse]

There is a quote from DB somewhere where he said he envisioned players playing together co-operatively. They also said PVP was "enabled".

As time went on other things came out but they didn't position it as a PVP fest initially.

And it is a multiplayer game in all modes - in their definition at least..

I don't think they ever envisioned it to be a PVP fest, but I do feel that some are pushing for that and hate that there are people who they cannot abuse.

And yes I said abuse.. CQC.. PVP.. Jordan's Piracy rp pvp.., people having fun in CZ's pvp.. lot of crap people are claiming is pvp.. abuse.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

They changed the method of travel "to allow for the multiplayer nature of the game". There's numerous other examples of how the game was designed first and foremost around multiplayer.
…

Since every player affects the BGS the game is "multi-player" even if everybody plays in Solo Mode The game was designed around one single background simulation.

Being able to see other players in the same instance is just the icing of the cake

Addition:
In the beginning there was the BGS. And the Developer saw it was good.
He created the Solo Mode so players could interact with the BGS.
Then the Developer thought it would be good if players could play together with friends - and Private Group Mode was "born".
After that the developers noticed that not everybody has friends that will play the game and the Developer added Open Mode as an afterthought.

 

[Mouse]

If the game was designed around solo you wouldn't need to connect to a server, you would be able to pause and save etc. Saying this game was designed around solo is laughable. You aren't refuting what I said when you say he wants us to play how we want. Your basically sitting here saying "I like turtles"..

Again I'm talking about the design of the game. It's clearly an mmo, that allows you to play solo, not the other way around. I'm glad you like solo, I'm glad he promised you solo. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying and you haven't offered any evidence the game was designed around solo, other than saying solo exists, and he said he's ok with you playing that way. And why wouldn't he be? Why would he add it and say, but I'd rather you not? I mean that's a given right?

And I've made it clear when I've speculated on his intentions, pointing it out again is redundant.

Its self evident that this is an mmo, and pointing at any comments even braben himself saying "it's not an mmo" doesn't change that.

It was designed around a background sim.. you keep thinking that solo was "added on" yet that is not the case.. they designed the game from the beginning with multiple modes.. Solo being one of them.

 

[Dogoncrook]

Of course the travel method was changed - some game elements needed to be change (compared to the later games in the series) to accommodate multi-player - time-compression in a multi-player game would not work. So, for the game to work as a multi-player game, elements were changed. That does not mean that it was not designed to be played in other ways, merely that elements were changed across all three game modes to be consistent.

The contention relates to your opinion that Solo and Private Groups were "tacked on". Logically, Private Groups are still multi-player. The quote talks about playing with friends - if that was only going to be able to be achieved in Open play then why mention that one would be able to play with friends in a multi-player game?

While the game is a multi-player online game, it has been designed to be played in three distinct game modes (game modes which are simply different settings on the common matchmaking system).

I never said it wasn't designed to be played in other ways, you are literally trying to win an argument I'm not having with you.

 

[Jockey79]

If the game was designed around solo you wouldn't need to connect to a server, you would be able to pause and save etc. Saying this game was designed around solo is laughable. You aren't refuting what I said when you say he wants us to play how we want. Your basically sitting here saying "I like turtles"..

Again I'm talking about the design of the game. It's clearly an mmo, that allows you to play solo, not the other way around. I'm glad you like solo, I'm glad he promised you solo. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying and you haven't offered any evidence the game was designed around solo, other than saying solo exists, and he said he's ok with you playing that way. And why wouldn't he be? Why would he add it and say, but I'd rather you not? I mean that's a given right?

And I've made it clear when I've speculated on his intentions, pointing it out again is redundant.

Its self evident that this is an mmo, and pointing at any comments even braben himself saying "it's not an mmo" doesn't change that.

I never said the game was designed around solo, I've shown your assertion of a "tacked on" feature was a load of rubbish as the game was designed with the modes at the core.

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

Just because it is an MMO, does not mean I have to play alongside you. As long as I'm connected to the game world, I'm part of the MMO despite who I see or do not see - it's not the people who make the MMO.

And OMG - If you are going to ignore what the designer and creator of the game says, shows to me that you are just here to spout your tosh and not discuss anything.
Your opinion of the game does not matter, so you carry on spouting and not discussing - DBOBE will listen to you as much as you listen to him, which you've made clear, you're not.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I never said it wasn't designed to be played in other ways, you are literally trying to win an argument I'm not having with you.

So why continue to be insistent that the game is an MMO?

 

[Dogoncrook]

It was designed around a background sim.. you keep thinking that solo was "added on" yet that is not the case.. they designed the game from the beginning with multiple modes.. Solo being one of them.

If you bothered to read, I initially said that was the impression I got. Maybe you shouldn't jump into the middle of something if you can't be bothered to figure out the context of the discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

So why continue to be insistent that the game is an MMO?

Because the background simulation doesn't function enough for braben to release it, hence no offline. You cannot get around player influence, there is no opt out.

- - - Updated - - -

Well that and it's literally advertised as an mmo.

 

[Jockey79]

Well that and it's literally advertised as an mmo.

and as Single and Co-op

^^ From Steam

 

[Robert Maynard]

Because the background simulation doesn't function enough for braben to release it, hence no offline. You cannot get around player influence, there is no opt out.

Well that and it's literally advertised as an mmo.

As above, it is advertised as more than just an MMO.

The single shared galaxy state has been a core game feature from the outset - all players affect it and experience it, regardless of game mode. With the launch on the Xbox One imminent, we will very soon have more players affecting the shared galaxy state. It's very much part of the game design.

 

[Dogoncrook]

I never said the game was designed around solo, I've shown your assertion of a "tacked on" feature was a load of rubbish as the game was designed with the modes at the core.

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

Just because it is an MMO, does not mean I have to play alongside you. As long as I'm connected to the game world, I'm part of the MMO despite who I see or do not see - it's not the people who make the MMO.

And OMG - If you are going to ignore what the designer and creator of the game says, shows to me that you are just here to spout your tosh and not discuss anything.
Your opinion of the game does not matter, so you carry on spouting and not discussing - DBOBE will listen to you as much as you listen to him, which you've made clear, you're not.

And what does that mean "it shows to you"? And? I'm quite ok with you ignoring my posts. You certainly ignored The first two that would give this conversation context.

I never said anything about playing alongside you. Talk about spouting and not discussing lol..

 

[Mouse]

If you bothered to read, I initially said that was the impression I got. Maybe you shouldn't jump into the middle of something if you can't be bothered to figure out the context of the discussion.

- - - Updated - - -



Because the background simulation doesn't function enough for braben to release it, hence no offline. You cannot get around player influence, there is no opt out.

- - - Updated - - -

Well that and it's literally advertised as an mmo.

Clearly you are getting frustrated, but sadly you are not realizing you are doing it to yourself. You are trying to prove a point that isn't really a point.

I've read all your post and been a part of this discussion for a long time. And I know your context you've made it clear time and time again even after people keep telling you that you are wrong. Kinda like someone running at a wall over and over again even though people have pointed out the door to them. It is also interesting to note that CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost pretty much posted the exact same thing as I did yet you felt you had to get nasty with me. I'd be careful, that is how infractions are garnered.

 

[Sir.Tj]

This thread has had multiple requests from moderators to discuss the post not the poster.

If it continues I will close the thread for a while and start handing out the infractions.

 

[Khelder]

At the risk of kicking the ant hill again...

Going by the text in the original Kickstarter campaign, it does indeed look as if multi-player (as in people playing together in a networked fashion, not just affecting the same BGS) was DB's (and therefore FD's) intention from the start. The networking components were apparently built and working before the KS campaign even started. It is also clear from the KS that there was intention to have a Solo mode from the start as well.

From a technical aspect, given that the networking components were already built, it shouldn't have been too complicated to provide a Solo mode. Groups would have required a bit more effort, but not much.

My guess would be (as someone has already pointed out) that DB's vision of people playing together was not so much a PvP murder-fest. But you never know.

 

[ianw]

I've lost track of the argument somewhere.

It was intended as multiplayer, open, solo and group along with solo offline.

Solo offline as we know got canned.

So we have multiplayer, open, solo and group.

:S

 

[Dogoncrook]

And my comment was speculating db's intent something none of this know, I said clearly it was speculative, and therefore can't really be wrong, for showing why I thought that. So no you haven't read what I posted, I don't believe you.

 

[ianw]

And my comment was speculating db's intent something none of this know, I said clearly it was speculative, and therefore can't really be wrong, for showing why I thought that. So no you haven't read what I posted, I don't believe you.

I haven't read all your posts - trying to work this morning. That's why I was asking for clarification.