Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Valethar]

EDIT: Nevermind.. Just saw Agony's post about relative psychology discussion being off topic. (probably should remove the rest of those posts just to deter a continuation of the trend though. It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle once it's escaped.)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

keep it sane

Bloody favouritism

 

[Agony_Aunt]

EDIT: Nevermind.. Just saw Agony's post about relative psychology discussion being off topic. (probably should remove the rest of those posts just to deter a continuation of the trend though. It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle once it's escaped.)

I just got rid of the ones that were getting too far off topic. Its ok to bring other relevant subjects to the table, as long as it doesn't get personal and doesn't drift too far off-topic.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

HAHAHAHAH!! <snip> THIS IS A GAME!! People dont get hurt! If I heist you in the game, and it affects you in REAL LIFE, you should NOT BE PLAYING IT!! <snip>

It seems you deigned to completely ignore my earlier post. I shall provide it here for your delectation and ease of access.

Remember it. You're right, they will. Memory is a powerful thing.

<snip> I enjoy the concept of loss matters. <snip>

I guess this here is where the dividing line is. I am not sure that everyone would share this feeling as a positive force in their life, especially when the cause of the loss is another human being. Lose to a game - meh, get better! Lose to another human being - it brings back memories of that kid in school who stole your sweets. It's a laughable example, I know. But take Mouse, for example. In his case, that memory in his life is the man with the gun on the opposite side of the conflict, and loss would have meant his own life. Again, lose against the game is one thing, bringing this memory up because you face another human...

So some people go to play in Mobius and Solo because the "loss matters" consequence is too hard for them. I would not even dare to imagine thinking about the possibility of calling someone who served in the armed forces of any country a coward... but you never know who is on the other end of that internet connection. A combat logger may have entered open by mistake but only realised it on meeting you. You never know!

Now take that and add on top of that a suggestion to change the status quo with regards to Modes and you suddenly have an inkling of how emotional this issue could be for someone who wants to be a part of this community, but cannot take the consequences of playing with people exactly because that loss is too painful. To have the system changed would be a slap in the face of far too many decent people, if you understand what I am saying.

It may be a game, but human interaction has emotional consequences. It is something that I am only too aware off as being a symptom of certain mental disorders (such as in some, not all, cases of Autism Spectrum Disorder) that the sufferer has no social imagination. The signs of this are that He or She does not recognise the emotional consequences of their actions.

If you think that your actions, even in legitimate Pirating, do not have an effect on other player's emotional states, then there is a possibility that you are suffering from something. This is why some of the best pirates in the Elite universe are gentlemen pirates, and the rest of you are rabble looking for your next thrill at the expense of others.

To counter that problem (FDev are not counsellors) there are equally valid Game Modes which were originally envisaged as a way to "avoid perceived griefing" Dev's words, not mine.

Any change to the game modes as they are now would leave FDev open to being sued as creating an artificial situation that is ripe for the bully to thrive. Therefore, no buff to open, and equal universe manipulation no matter which mode you choose.

[Edit:] Oh, and here's a link so that you can look up concerning the dangers of social interaction online: http://www.bullying.co.uk/cyberbullying/

Hope that helps.

 

[Zieman]

Any change to the game modes as they are now would leave FDev open to being sued as creating an artificial situation that is ripe for the bully to thrive. Therefore, no buff to open, and equal universe manipulation no matter which mode you choose.

Heear hear.
/ close thread now?
Please.

 

[Marra Morgan]

It may be a game, but human interaction has emotional consequences. It is something that I am only too aware off as being a symptom of certain mental disorders (such as in some, not all, cases of Autism Spectrum Disorder) that the sufferer has no social imagination. The signs of this are that He or She does not recognise the emotional consequences of their actions.

If you think that your actions, even in legitimate Pirating, do not have an effect on other player's emotional states, then there is a possibility that you are suffering from something.

Yes, that's something that should always be in mind when we play games; we should be aware of the consequences our actions have on other player's emotions and act responsibly. I also believe that we have a responsibility to keep our emotions in check and in perspective whilst playing games. And yes, there are certain mental disorders that affect people's ability to do both of those things.

This is one of the many reasons I love Elite's approach with three play-modes - we can choose a style that bests suits each individual's appetite for social interaction.

Oh and Hi Leto Thule!
I remember you from EVE's C&P forums, where you always came across as a rather rogue-ish gentleman
Good to see you're having fun here too!

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I spent the whole of last night flying around with a cargo hold full of gold hoping to get some pirate type to go for the bait. Ended up having to put my ship in front of wanted commanders but still none took the bait...

I had plenty of AI action, whole wings of them trying to get my bounty but I was not interested in them, only real pirates...

When does open get more dangerous than solo?

 

[Leto Thule]

It seems you deigned to completely ignore my earlier post. I shall provide it here for your delectation and ease of access.



It may be a game, but human interaction has emotional consequences. It is something that I am only too aware off as being a symptom of certain mental disorders (such as in some, not all, cases of Autism Spectrum Disorder) that the sufferer has no social imagination. The signs of this are that He or She does not recognise the emotional consequences of their actions.

If you think that your actions, even in legitimate Pirating, do not have an effect on other player's emotional states, then there is a possibility that you are suffering from something. This is why some of the best pirates in the Elite universe are gentlemen pirates, and the rest of you are rabble looking for your next thrill at the expense of others.

To counter that problem (FDev are not counsellors) there are equally valid Game Modes which were originally envisaged as a way to "avoid perceived griefing" Dev's words, not mine.

Any change to the game modes as they are now would leave FDev open to being sued as creating an artificial situation that is ripe for the bully to thrive. Therefore, no buff to open, and equal universe manipulation no matter which mode you choose.

[Edit:] Oh, and here's a link so that you can look up concerning the dangers of social interaction online: http://www.bullying.co.uk/cyberbullying/

Hope that helps.

Sorry mate, I didn't see it. I really need to stop using the dang phone.... I'll read it over when I get to work.

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For what it's worth, and for clarity, I wasn't, at all, suggesting you were. I actually think you have come across as a perfectly decent pirate role player. I just felt like adding my 2 cents worth to the current discussion, because while you do not do those things, this whole 'episode' of this thread was ignited by someone doing just that, and suggesting that the cowards who hide in solo should be treated like second or third class gamers.

Sorry for the misunderstanding Leto, and apologies to you (but not the other poster) if I offended you.

Got it. And yes, the other gent was... Obtuse.

 

[Leto Thule]

Yes, that's something that should always be in mind when we play games; we should be aware of the consequences our actions have on other player's emotions and act responsibly. I also believe that we have a responsibility to keep our emotions in check and in perspective whilst playing games. And yes, there are certain mental disorders that affect people's ability to do both of those things.

This is one of the many reasons I love Elite's approach with three play-modes - we can choose a style that bests suits each individual's appetite for social interaction.

Oh and Hi Leto Thule!
I remember you from EVE's C&P forums, where you always came across as a rather rogue-ish gentleman
Good to see you're having fun here too!

o7

Who were you there? Did you post often? I miss the EVE community.. But the devs are killing their own game

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Sorry mate, I didn't see it. I really need to stop using the dang phone.... I'll read it over when I get to work.

NP....07

 

[Leto Thule]

I spent the whole of last night flying around with a cargo hold full of gold hoping to get some pirate type to go for the bait. Ended up having to put my ship in front of wanted commanders but still none took the bait...

I had plenty of AI action, whole wings of them trying to get my bounty but I was not interested in them, only real pirates...

When does open get more dangerous than solo?

As a few have said, it doesnt really guarantee youll actually see anyone, which is a key point in the "open being more dangerous" argument doesnt really hold water. Im not a network guy, so the logic escapes me, but from what I have read on here it has a lot to do with latency and pairing client together who could actually interact. I have noticed, however, that you are more likely to be instanced if the players are on your friends list.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It seems you deigned to completely ignore my earlier post. I shall provide it here for your delectation and ease of access.



It may be a game, but human interaction has emotional consequences. It is something that I am only too aware off as being a symptom of certain mental disorders (such as in some, not all, cases of Autism Spectrum Disorder) that the sufferer has no social imagination. The signs of this are that He or She does not recognise the emotional consequences of their actions.

If you think that your actions, even in legitimate Pirating, do not have an effect on other player's emotional states, then there is a possibility that you are suffering from something. This is why some of the best pirates in the Elite universe are gentlemen pirates, and the rest of you are rabble looking for your next thrill at the expense of others.

To counter that problem (FDev are not counsellors) there are equally valid Game Modes which were originally envisaged as a way to "avoid perceived griefing" Dev's words, not mine.

Any change to the game modes as they are now would leave FDev open to being sued as creating an artificial situation that is ripe for the bully to thrive. Therefore, no buff to open, and equal universe manipulation no matter which mode you choose.

[Edit:] Oh, and here's a link so that you can look up concerning the dangers of social interaction online: http://www.bullying.co.uk/cyberbullying/

Hope that helps.

Alright.

Im going to keep this positive and brief, seeing as how the mods have spoken and the deletehammer came down already:

When I play the game, I am playing the game, not the player. When I rob you in game, I am robbing your virtual persona in game... in no way are my actions designed to elicit an emotional response from the target.

I 100% agree that cyberbullying happens, I 100% disagree that it happens in a game environment. Facebook, myspace, all social media apps are rife with this stuff, which is why I dont use any of them. BUT - in those examples, it happens to REAL people about REAL things in their life.

The only way that I could see any action in a game... especially a game like this... as being a legitimate bully tactic, would be if I somehow was able to sniff your IP out of the internet (again im not an IT guy), and continuous pursue you, obtain your RL name and address, you know... crazy stuff. Im not that guy. Just a space pirate trying to make a living.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
When I play the game, I am playing the game, not the player. When I rob you in game, I am robbing your virtual persona in game... in no way are my actions designed to elicit an emotional response from the target.
…

Unless you only use hatch breaker limpets you are interacting with the player. If you say something like "drop cargo or get destroyed" you are trying to force the player to do something not the avatar.

Piracy in ED is begging by hoping that the other player plays along the RP-piracy or trying to force the player to do something he/she doesn't want to do because the player doesn't want to lose something valuable like a certain amount of playtime needed to cover the expenses.

In both cases you are interacting with the player not the avatar.
If you force the other player to do something that player doesn't want to do by threatening to do something that the other player will find harmful - then you are relying on an emotional response form your victim (fear of losing something valuable to the victim). Otherwise it would be nothing more than begging.

The game allows this and I think it's the biggest fault of this game. Piracy should be possible, it should be fun/exciting for everybody involved, but it shouldn't be centered around threatening other human beings to do something out of fear. That's simply a disgusting game mechanic in my opinion.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

As a few have said, it doesnt really guarantee youll actually see anyone, which is a key point in the "open being more dangerous" argument doesnt really hold water. Im not a network guy, so the logic escapes me, but from what I have read on here it has a lot to do with latency and pairing client together who could actually interact. I have noticed, however, that you are more likely to be instanced if the players are on your friends list.

Thanks for the info

Any Pirates want to be friends with an apprentice bounty hunter?

If so send me a friends request (In game name is the same as here) and maybe let me know how much you're bounty is worth!
Always good to know how much profit can be made!

P.S. No laughing when I lower my landing gear instead of my pew pew things...
and try not to move about when I do find the trigger!

 

[Hurricane Moon]

lol at piracy shouldn't be centered around threatening other humans......

err surely that's how proper piracy works?.....

bully in the alley and all that...you want something then you take it...by force if needs be...that's a proper pirate...none of this romantic stand and deliver nonsence.
back in the days of Ed Teach and his ilk you would have had to have been cold hard and nasty to get what you wanted....no time for peoples emotions

hard desperate times makes hard and desperate men..(that doesn't sound to good lol)

 

[sp0q]

lol at piracy shouldn't be centered around threatening other humans......

err surely that's how proper piracy works?.....

bully in the alley and all that...you want something then you take it...by force if needs be...that's a proper pirate...none of this romantic stand and deliver nonsence.
back in the days of Ed Teach and his ilk you would have had to have been cold hard and nasty to get what you wanted....no time for peoples emotions

If I can call myself a pirate expert, and after watching Pirates of the Caribbean I believe I can, I'd say that's a load!

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

lol at piracy shouldn't be centered around threatening other humans......
…

You know this is a game? It doesn't - and shouldn't - reflect the reality in all aspects.

 

[Robert Maynard]

lol at piracy shouldn't be centered around threatening other humans......

err surely that's how proper piracy works?.....

bully in the alley and all that...you want something then you take it...by force if needs be...that's a proper pirate...none of this romantic stand and deliver nonsence.
back in the days of Ed Teach and his ilk you would have had to have been cold hard and nasty to get what you wanted....no time for peoples emotions

hard desperate times makes hard and desperate men..(that doesn't sound to good lol)

Piracy only centres around other humans if the pirate self-selects the tiny fraction of the galactic population that is comprised of other players....

 

[Hurricane Moon]

If I can call myself a pirate expert, and after watching Pirates of the Caribbean I believe I can, I'd say that's a load!

lol mate

sadly the movies are nothing like the dirty and nasty violence and diseased creatures that they actually were....anyway proper pirates to me are the Cornish ones from penzance ect.....Barbosa is the best pirate through the whole series,oh and Davey jones is well played

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Piracy only centres around other humans if the pirate self-selects the tiny fraction of the galactic population that is comprised of other players....

And even in Open Mode piracy against CMDRs - taking cargo from others by force - could be doable without forced cooperation if only the game had better piracy mechanics.
Like better hatch breakers or even ships spilling (a random amount of) cargo on destruction.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

…
sadly the movies are nothing like the dirty and nasty violence and diseased creatures that they actually were....…

That's probably why those movies became so popular - no actual piracy involved. Sadly apparently a lot of pirate players think they reenact those movies by pirating CMDRs in this game.

 

[Hurricane Moon]

You know this is a game? It doesn't - and shouldn't - reflect the reality in all aspects.

yes and as a role player in game,if I am going to do something myself,i will try and be historiccly accurate.....

being a pirate imo is having a license to maim,murder,rob.....and be a general threat to the normal fare of traders .....

id quite happily take your cargo and then your life.....if role playing as a pirate