Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Robert Maynard]

My point is that I think we have entered into the zone of drama queens. Okay, I get it some don't like pvp.. but isn't it a tad on the hysterical side that the 0.001% chance it finds you that the world is about to end? Get real guys and stop trying to split the playerbase - thats not good for the game.

Given this situation I simply can't respect PvE fanatics, its borderline insanity.

"Drama queens" - charming. What about those who forcefully defend their "right" to shoot at any player?

Yes, some don't like PvP - that much is blindingly obvious.

Hysteria would be when the PvP players run out of unwilling targets....

Who's doing the best job of splitting the player-base? Those who don't want to be shot at by other players or the players who see it as their right to shoot at any player?

 

[fademist]

I have your back bro.

The vitriol and hatred from those who dislike pvp is quite shocking I find.. I hear the point, some don't enjoy pvp, but I keep saying this and it keeps falling on deaf ears. Exactly how many times have those who feel so strongly about this issue, and who've played in the 'dreaded open' actually had their game ruined? How many times have their ships been layed to waste? 400 BILLION SYSTEMS! For the love of god.

I've been playing this game since the beginning and even though I partake in some player combat now and again - its an extremely rare thing to come across outside cg areas and particular areas that are hub like.

My point is that I think we have entered into the zone of drama queens. Okay, I get it some don't like pvp.. but isn't it a tad on the hysterical side that the 0.001% chance it finds you that the world is about to end? Get real guys and stop trying to split the playerbase - thats not good for the game.

Given this situation I simply can't respect PvE fanatics, its borderline insanity.

and there u r wrong ....the only insanity is to change the main mechanics cause some ppl wants....

 

[Runnybabbit]

"Drama queens" - charming. What about those who forcefully defend their "right" to shoot at any player?

Yes, some don't like PvP - that much is blindingly obvious.

Hysteria would be when the PvP players run out of unwilling targets....

Who's doing the best job of splitting the player-base? Those who don't want to be shot at by other players or the players who see it as their right to shoot at any player?

Have to say, with a general lack of calm reasoned discussion and (on the part of some) refusal to acknowledge valid points towards an amicable solution for all, your last point would be the valid answer...

 

[Cosmos]

"Drama queens" - charming. What about those who forcefully defend their "right" to shoot at any player?

Yes, some don't like PvP - that much is blindingly obvious.

Hysteria would be when the PvP players run out of unwilling targets....

Who's doing the best job of splitting the player-base? Those who don't want to be shot at by other players or the players who see it as their right to shoot at any player?

Come on dude.. like exactly how many times does this happen? How many times has your ship been destroyed by players? The picture that gets painted is that you can't move in Open for being killed by players.. Its a complete nonsense. I see players around CG's and thats about it. The rest of the time, like 99.99% of the time I don't. And for the most part in Open when I do see a player out and about its often a friendly encounter.

I quite often hear people say, 'This is not EVE' when I have these heated debates. And no, its not EVE, so I think people should stop acting like that's how the game plays out. It is drama queen zone as far as I am concerned and I might add that a heap of stuff has been changed in the game to cater to the PvE only proponents. Its getting out of hand.

But to answer your question: Who's doing the player base splitting?.. Its the PvE only crew, and it always has been. Or does a dedicated, constantly spammed, group.. 'don't spoil our game, open is evil' mantra sound inclusive and reasonable?

This is getting seriously old.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Come on dude.. like exactly how many times does this happen? How many times has your ship been destroyed by players? The picture that gets painted is that you can't move in Open for being killed by players.. Its a complete nonsense. I see players around CG's and thats about it. The rest of the time, like 99.99% of the time I don't. And for the most part in Open when I do see a player out and about its often a friendly encounter.

I quite often hear people say, 'This is not EVE' when I have these heated debates. And no, its not EVE, so I think people should stop acting like that's how the game plays out. It is drama queen zone as far as I am concerned and I might add that a heap of stuff has been changed in the game to cater to the PvE only proponents. Its getting out of hand.

Quite a few times now. I have little time for beggars....

While it is not some other game, there are those who might quite like it to be another game - except with real flight / ship control rather than point-and-click combat.

Some persistently call for the removal of Solo and Private Groups because it gives their targets somewhere to go to get away from them (but still play the game).

What, specifically, has been added solely to cater to PvE proponents?

 

[Noddie]

It's certainly true that if you <go> out of the starting systems and avoid CGs you can avoid PVP for the most part. I barely see anyone, and I play in open.

 

[Runnybabbit]

Come on dude.. like exactly how many times does this happen? How many times has your ship been destroyed by players? The picture that gets painted is that you can't move in Open for being killed by players.. Its a complete nonsense. I see players around CG's and thats about it. The rest of the time, like 99.99% of the time I don't. And for the most part in Open when I do see a player out and about its often a friendly encounter.

I quite often hear people say, 'This is not EVE' when I have these heated debates. And no, its not EVE, so I think people should stop acting like that's how the game plays out. It is drama queen zone as far as I am concerned and I might add that a heap of stuff has been changed in the game to cater to the PvE only proponents. Its getting out of hand.

But to answer your question: Who's doing the player base splitting?.. Its the PvE only crew, and it always has been. Or does a dedicated, constantly spammed, group.. 'don't spoil our game, open is evil' mantra sound inclusive and reasonable?

This is getting seriously old.

It doesn't matter a jot how many times it happens, to however many players, the fact is, that it does happen, and it is not the choice of players who prefer PvE. As there is already an open that caters admirably for people who wish to enjoy PvP, in whatever guise they choose to do so, and there is also a specific Private Group (Mobius) that caters for players who prefer PvE, what would make any difference at all, to the responsibility (self-assumed, and very generously on his part) being passed to Frontier, and them placing the options list at the log-on part of the game, to include:

PvP Open
PvE Open
Private Groups
Solo

??

There would be no difference whatsoever from the current Status Quo, with the sole exception of new players and players that don't know of the Mobius/PvE alternative, being given the choice up front to decide which mode of play they would enjoy the most..

Stamping one's feet and continually complaining about other players preferences does not make a debate or discussion, and it makes you appear to be the bullies that a lot of PvE players already perceive...

 

[Lestenio]

as far as I am concerned and I might add that a heap of stuff has been changed in the game to cater to the PvE only proponents. Its getting out of hand.

Please elaborate on the PvE only features that were added. I'm curious what the feature are.

Also, why do you care where people play. If it's not it shoot them, why do you care?

 

[Roybe]

I think Mobius should give the Elite: Dangerous galaxy a Christmas Present.

Close down his group.

The outcry would be so horrendous that the devs would HAVE to create a PVE Open mode! 15k players upset that they have lost their PvE playground would be amazing to watch as the forums melted!

Mobius' group is actually preventing the possibility!

 

[Spook]

I have your back bro.

The vitriol and hatred from those who dislike pvp is quite shocking I find..

Vitriol and hatred Cosmos?

Just some of the terms of endearment Cody collected before he took a breather:


Cancerous, Cowardly, cheating, filthy, casual, ignorant, risk-averse, mode-switching, misanthropic, Solo players!

Yeah right........

 

[DaveB]

I think bothall sides of this debate (there are way more than two opposing viewpoints in these megathreads) need to take a deep breath and review what's been said with a little more open-mindedness.

We have had dozens of folks making suggestions for changes, many of which from every camp have been well thought-out and would indeed benefit their posters style of play.

The vast majority of these suggestions have then been answered by folks expressing the view that these proposed changes would be a detriment to their game style.

None of this is unreasonable, and giving everyone the benefit of the assumption that they are arguing their point in good faith and with at least a modicum of veracity on which to base their opinion there's absolutely no drama involved.

However, for as long as there's roughly as many folks that would get a detriment from any change as would benefit by it - particularly when those two groups don't seem to collectively comprise a majority of the play styles represented in the game - then FD have absolutely no reason to implement any of them. I understand that this is frustrating for the folks making well-intentioned suggestions that would improve the game experience for them.

Personally I have a few ideas myself that would improve the game for me, but maybe because I enjoy multiple play styles myself I find it pretty easy to see that there are other ways of playing the game out there which would definitely not benefit from the "improvements" I would welcome so I'm pretty much sticking with the status quo, and - I suspect - so are FD. They have to look at EVERY play style when considering a potential change not just the play style of a particular vocal forum group.

 

[Cosmos]

It doesn't matter a jot how many times it happens, to however many players, the fact is, that it does happen, and it is not the choice of players who prefer PvE. As there is already an open that caters admirably for people who wish to enjoy PvP, in whatever guise they choose to do so, and there is also a specific Private Group (Mobius) that caters for players who prefer PvE, what would make any difference at all, to the responsibility (self-assumed, and very generously on his part) being passed to Frontier, and them placing the options list at the log-on part of the game, to include:

PvP Open
PvE Open
Private Groups
Solo

??

There would be no difference whatsoever from the current Status Quo, with the sole exception of new players and players that don't know of the Mobius/PvE alternative, being given the choice up front to decide which mode of play they would enjoy the most..

Stamping one's feet and continually complaining about other players preferences does not make a debate or discussion, and it makes you appear to be the bullies that a lot of PvE players already perceive...

Okay, you have your play preference. Happy for you. Now can we please stop demonising open play and completely misrepresenting what goes on there and labelling everyone in it a 'griefer', 'psycho' out to make anyone they come into contact with feel the pain? Given the comments I've seen over the years anyone might start thinking open is a torture chamber.

I don't actually play ED for PvP for the record, its fun sometimes, but I play in Open so that I can experience a wide range of interactions with other players, be they friendly or not. I also see it as being content for the player base - the game is sparse enough given the billions of systems. We must all have heard comments to the effect of, 'where are all the players'? Its an mmo after all.

 

[Yaffle]

Now can we please stop demonising open play and completely misrepresenting what goes on there and labelling everyone in it a 'griefer', 'psycho' out to make anyone they come into contact with feel the pain? Given the comments I've seen over the years anyone might start thinking open is a torture chamber.

For the avoidance of doubt using such terms for the fans of open is pejorative, and should be reported.

 

[Mouse]

I have your back bro.

The vitriol and hatred from those who dislike pvp is quite shocking I find.. I hear the point, some don't enjoy pvp, but I keep saying this and it keeps falling on deaf ears. Exactly how many times have those who feel so strongly about this issue, and who've played in the 'dreaded open' actually had their game ruined? How many times have their ships been layed to waste? 400 BILLION SYSTEMS! For the love of god.

I've been playing this game since the beginning and even though I partake in some player combat now and again - its an extremely rare thing to come across outside cg areas and particular areas that are hub like.

My point is that I think we have entered into the zone of drama queens. Okay, I get it some don't like pvp.. but isn't it a tad on the hysterical side that the 0.001% chance it finds you that the world is about to end? Get real guys and stop trying to split the playerbase - thats not good for the game.

Given this situation I simply can't respect PvE fanatics, its borderline insanity.

Who hates PVP? You do realize that the issue people have in not hating pvp but not wanting to participate in it yet being forced to in the only social mode there is when. Yes the universe is big.. but spending over a month collecting data and randomly running across someone who nukes you .. not fun... or finally getting to sag A to find a jerk who went there just to destroy ships who make it.

The mega threads were started by PVPers.. demanding changes and nerfing solo/group.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…


There will ALWAYS be victims for us to make our content and enjoy entirely at the expense of their gaming pleasure.


…

I have your back bro.


The vitriol and hatred from those who dislike pvp is quite shocking I find.. …

I don't know, but I get the impression that the vitriol isn't on the PvE side.


The first quote above quote is full of disrespect to other players. It's ridiculous to expect that others will react to such things with respect. Respect has to be earned.


If someone is constantly disrespectful to others, constantly belittling and provocing them and mocking their "weakness" it's not surprising that that person will get responses in a similar way.

Come on dude.. like exactly how many times does this happen? How many times has your ship been destroyed by players? …

It only takes one time. It entirely depends on what the player wants from the game and how that player reacts to certain provocations.
If the player who gets killed for no apparent in-game reason wanted to roleplay and play a part in the overall story, then one single incident that breaks the illusion of a working and realistic galaxy is enough.


Posting on the forums about "wolfs and sheep", "enjoy at the expense of their gaming pleasure" and other similar things certainly won't help keep such players in Open Mode. All it will do is provoke strong opposition to the play style of those who write such stuff.


And 400 billion systems - come on - you know that almost all of those systems are empty space. Unless somebody is an explorer the only relevant systems are those within the inhabited bubble and that are only a few systems (compared to the 400 billion) and of those few systems even fewer are interesting.

 

[Mouse]

I have your back bro.

The vitriol and hatred from those who dislike pvp is quite shocking I find.. I hear the point, some don't enjoy pvp, but I keep saying this and it keeps falling on deaf ears. Exactly how many times have those who feel so strongly about this issue, and who've played in the 'dreaded open' actually had their game ruined? How many times have their ships been layed to waste? 400 BILLION SYSTEMS! For the love of god.

I've been playing this game since the beginning and even though I partake in some player combat now and again - its an extremely rare thing to come across outside cg areas and particular areas that are hub like.

My point is that I think we have entered into the zone of drama queens. Okay, I get it some don't like pvp.. but isn't it a tad on the hysterical side that the 0.001% chance it finds you that the world is about to end? Get real guys and stop trying to split the playerbase - thats not good for the game.

Given this situation I simply can't respect PvE fanatics, its borderline insanity.

I also love the Drama queen and Insanity comments because looking through the mega threads.. PVEers have asked for a mod... compared to all the "ED is gonna die if you don't change the game to how I want" predictions and such from pvpers and the wanting people to be forced into open so they can kill them..

are you sure you know what the words mean or are you just throwing them at PVErs because they they sound like insults?

 

[Cosmos]

Who hates PVP? You do realize that the issue people have in not hating pvp but not wanting to participate in it yet being forced to in the only social mode there is when. Yes the universe is big.. but spending over a month collecting data and randomly running across someone who nukes you .. not fun... or finally getting to sag A to find a jerk who went there just to destroy ships who make it.

The mega threads were started by PVPers.. demanding changes and nerfing solo/group.

I think one of the problems stems from the game *mostly* having been designed in a single player sort of experience with multiplayer loosely attached, optional. Whilst I play in open 99% of the time, I do on occasion use solo or private for cg's so I'm not competing with other players, eg for kills or bounties. If I don't, I can't make a competitive contribution and thus would earn less.

Ironically I don't think the devs had cg's in mind, as a way to play, when they were developing the game. Whilst they do bring players together and give the community a focus, far improved from their initial use, its simply not very viable to play in open if we are attempting to competitively participate - that comes down to some design decisions.

ED does a lot of things well, and I've been having a great time with Horizons, but the multi-player element is left seriously wanting at times and it likely always will when its trying to be a solo and multiplayer game at the same time.

 

[Mouse]

Come on dude.. like exactly how many times does this happen? How many times has your ship been destroyed by players? The picture that gets painted is that you can't move in Open for being killed by players.. Its a complete nonsense. I see players around CG's and thats about it. The rest of the time, like 99.99% of the time I don't. And for the most part in Open when I do see a player out and about its often a friendly encounter.

I quite often hear people say, 'This is not EVE' when I have these heated debates. And no, its not EVE, so I think people should stop acting like that's how the game plays out. It is drama queen zone as far as I am concerned and I might add that a heap of stuff has been changed in the game to cater to the PvE only proponents. Its getting out of hand.

But to answer your question: Who's doing the player base splitting?.. Its the PvE only crew, and it always has been. Or does a dedicated, constantly spammed, group.. 'don't spoil our game, open is evil' mantra sound inclusive and reasonable?

This is getting seriously old.

Have you even read the threads.. or a few pages and took it from there?

I guess you're "splitting the playerbase comment" is more about loosing soft targets as the base is not splitting nor would it if a PVE mode was introduced. People can play where they want. The playerbase is the whole community in every mode.. splitting the player base would be to get people to leave the game..


Who said Open is Evil?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I think one of the problems stems from the game *mostly* having been designed in a single player sort of experience with multiplayer loosely attached, optional. …

I agree with almost all you have written in the posting containing that quote, but would like to add something to that first sentence. I think the game has been designed as a coop multiplayer game with loosely attached combat PvP.
Exploration and trading CGs are pure coop PvE events from a design point of view. Even combat CGs are mainly PvE - otherwise they wouldn't work better in Solo Mode. I agree that combat CGs are badly designed and bounty farming in RES is a wing could be better - in both cases adjusting the NPC spawn rate to the amount of players in the instance would improve the game.

With some adjustments and additions to the game it could become a good multiplayer game with PvP. In it's current state the PvP part I get the impression that it's detached from the main game. The developers made it worse with the removal of faction wide bounties.

 

[Roybe]

I agree with almost all you have written in the posting containing that quote, but would like to add something to that first sentence. I think the game has been designed as a coop multiplayer game with loosely attached combat PvP.
Exploration and trading CGs are pure coop PvE events from a design point of view. Even combat CGs are mainly PvE - otherwise they wouldn't work better in Solo Mode. I agree that combat CGs are badly designed and bounty farming in RES is a wing could be better - in both cases adjusting the NPC spawn rate to the amount of players in the instance would improve the game.

With some adjustments and additions to the game it could become a good multiplayer game with PvP. In it's current state the PvP part I get the impression that it's detached from the main game. The developers made it worse with the removal of faction wide bounties.

What is interesting Zadian, is that the game only rewards PvE campaigns, rewarding those players that out-collect trophies against the other side. The reward system is so small for PvP (certain missions allow players to be targeted and pay some credtis) but the overall reward of PVP is not worth the effort...and yet, here we are, the same historic discussion being pushed up and down the same hill. <shrug> What WOULD an Open PVE mode really do? It would leave the PvP players to PvP with others that want to compete within that arena. Period. Look at other games where this occurs. It works fine. Yet, the PvP people feel that, somehow this game is different. That a PvE mode would 'destroy' the game.

Mobius should close his group...let the PVE players come to the forums and demand a say in the game. Barring his refusal to do so, the members of that group should band together and come here with one voice and be heard. Until either of these occurs, there will not be enough pressure on Fdev to create an Open PvE mode...or state for the record...they do not want one....or cannot program one.