Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Mouse]

To motivate people to play with other people? give people a reason to want to risk open? where they might get attacked by players and whatnot?
That's about it, there's no reason to give people any other advantage for anything else, play solo or group, if you are playing group you are playing with friends and enjoying yourself, if solo you are not worrying about others and enjoying yourself? does it really bother you that people that play open get a bonus for doing so? why? they earn more then you for doing the same? sure but they also participate in open and the risks that include?

It is just a thought


It is a thought, I think could be interesting, it doesn't need to happen, it doesn't need to be done, but I think it could get more people into open, if they find it worth it, if they do not, then they can continue as is without worrying? there are a ton of people out there that probably have more money then you, so does 15% max really matter if you are enjoying the game? do you enjoy the game less when you know that others that play the game basically on a higher difficulty get a bonus for that?

Well in first place the "higher difficulty" argument has been run into the ground and proven false many times. Options in Open that are not available in solo, such as wings, negate this "higher difficulty". Secondly, as been claimed by many people, once you get out of certain areas you don't see anyone.. so where is the risk? Where is this justification, this NEED for a more money than everyone else. It isn't there, it is a smoke screen, there is no need.

What is funny and does make me wonder is those who claim Open is so hard and that they need more credits for things they do, then complain because they can't find anyone. They also completely forget that.. they made a choice.

ED is a mountain.. with a certain amount of $$ at the top that each person that reaches the top gets. You can climb it how ever you want, with help, by yourself, or cutting other's ropes as you push each other around and struggle to the top. But the amount of $$ doesn't change, you made the choice of how you got to the top. You can't make your choice then demand the amount of money changes because of the choices you made. Personal responsibility here.

Currently the modes are equal, the only difference between solo and open, you can interact with other people. You want to alter that.. you want to take ED's commitment that there is no right mode to play in and make it Open is the right mode and the other modes are less. In truth that won't effect me, but where does it stop? What is the next demand? Once ED caves in and alters Open to make it different than the other modes do you really think the amount of pressure by those who want open to be the only mode, who want open to be special will suddenly decrease? Heck no it will increase. Once that line is crossed and the game altered for your benefit it won't stop and the other modes will be effected.

In essence you made a choice and now instead of taking responsibility for your choice you want ED to alter the game to pander to your choice.

 

[Arioch]

I think the idea of a 5% bonus for playing in Open is perfectly fine - as long as the player can prove that they're in an Instance with another player.
I suppose this could be done by some kind of communications function or something, after which a Commander would automatically give 5% of any trade transactions to the Commanders they're Instanced with and...hold on, no, this is sounding familiar for some reason...

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think the idea of a 5% bonus for playing in Open is perfectly fine - as long as the player can prove that they're in an Instance with another player.
I suppose this could be done by some kind of communications function or something, after which a Commander would automatically give 5% of any trade transactions to the Commanders they're Instanced with and...hold on, no, this is sounding familiar for some reason...

More importantly than simply being in an instance with another player, that the other player actually poses a risk to the player - otherwise it would be a nice little earner for Wings out in the sticks with no players about.

 

[Mouse]

More importantly than simply being in an instance with another player, that the other player actually poses a risk to the player - otherwise it would be a nice little earner for Wings out in the sticks with no players about.

most likely what it has been all along..

 

[Robert Maynard]

most likely what it has been all along..

Actually - you're on to something there, in my opinion. Players cannot form Wings in Solo. Players in Open can form Wings. Wings give a numerical advantage over a single player. Wings give a trade dividend of 5% to the other players in the Wing when commodities are sold. Wings also share bounties between members - less per kill but probably more kills due to the aforementioned numerical advantage.

There it is! The benefits of being in a Wing form the bonus for playing in Open mode!!

(let's forget about Private Groups for a moment - everyone else seems to when complaints are made about Solo....)

 

[Mouse]

Actually - you're on to something there, in my opinion. Players cannot form Wings in Solo. Players in Open can form Wings. Wings give a numerical advantage over a single player. Wings give a trade dividend of 5% to the other players in the Wing when commodities are sold. Wings also share bounties between members - less per kill but probably more kills due to the aforementioned numerical advantage.

There it is! The benefits of being in a Wing form the bonus for playing in Open mode!!

(let's forget about Private Groups for a moment - everyone else seems to when complaints are made about Solo....)

A thousand rep and 5 lbs of Cubeo Razorback Bacon

 

[smiths121]

Hello Mr Maynard,

One of the problems you have later on is the kill value when killing in a wing is also divided. Once we all started to get to Dangerous/Deadly, with decent Python/FDL/Vulture we were all less keen to form wings in conflict zones, its hard enough to move through Dangerous and Deadly without dividing your kill value by 2,3 or 4! I hasten to add we are in the middle of nowhere with our best system receiving 25ish visits a day (of which we are 3 or 4), and the smaller outpost only systems receiving less than 10. I think if our home area was more popular, my impression would be different (if people opposed in the conflict zones for example).

We do use wings, if a couple of players want to trade, they get their Anaconda's together and trade in wing, this is a good bonus. If someone is bounty hunting for 20 pirates they might ask for help if time is tight. It is the exception rather than the rule. for our little group, wings are formed adhoc as needed, default is playing solo but with text and or speech to others and shared objectives (background simulator). 9 times out of 10, the mode chosen to go in game would make no difference to me.

Wings work well when your rating is lower to improve the risk/reward decision tree, but by the time you figure out how to use them for this, you do not need them! I hope I am wrong. I am starting to make friends in Empire space with a low rating character. I hope wings come into play earlier, to be fair we did not have wings to start with back in 1.0 and 1.1.

Simon

Actually - you're on to something there, in my opinion. Players cannot form Wings in Solo. Players in Open can form Wings. Wings give a numerical advantage over a single player. Wings give a trade dividend of 5% to the other players in the Wing when commodities are sold. Wings also share bounties between members - less per kill but probably more kills due to the aforementioned numerical advantage.

There it is! The benefits of being in a Wing form the bonus for playing in Open mode!!

(let's forget about Private Groups for a moment - everyone else seems to when complaints are made about Solo....)

 

[Gidio]

Frontier Dev: Please hear my plea. Don't kill my dream game.

First of all: This is NOT a rant, I love this game, will probably buy the expansion and the expansions after it. Why I love this game is why I want it to survive.
Secondly: This is NOT about the price. Yes, I was a bit irked that we are probably going to have to pay about 180 dollars to buy all of planetary landings, if they are split into 3 seasons. But I can live with that.
Thirdly: This is not about direct decisions that FDev made, but just about their general way of doing business.


Frontier Developments,

I loved your games since Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, I admit I have never played any Elite games before Elite: Dangerous, but I loved the idea and premise so I bought it and it has become one of my favorite games (and I play a lot of video games). I hope this game can become as big as the biggest of MMOs like World of Warcraft (which I played) and EVE (which I didn't). But then the game needs to survive its first years online, which are the most crucial. For most MMORPGs the first years are what makes or breaks a game (a lot not all of them).

The main problem is: the improper communication. Now this doesn't mean telling us everything you are doing, not at all. The problem at the moment to be honest is: People don't trust you anymore to make good decisions. After the fiasco that was (and still is) Powerplay, customers want to monitor your every step just to make sure that stupid stuff like that doesn't happen anymore.
So your two option here are:
- Tell EVERYTHING you will be doing (which isn't fun for anyone)
- Engage in open chat or an open dialogue with the players (This does NOT mean let David Braben answer 3 questions that he picks out and leave) I mean not only answering questions, I mean also accepting suggestions.

Your community team is working as hard as they can and they promise to pass on suggestions to the top, but we don't see any result of that, so people don't really believe that they have any input in the game.
Let David Braben or Michael Brooks directly respond to suggestions, even better if it were via live stream, because that's just the way human psychology works, we want to see a real person. And respond to CRITICAL questions, not just prance around them.

Your game has glaring holes in them (Solo/Open issue, Powerplay, the seemingly static 'living breathing' universe), please acknowledge them instead of just ignoring them. I know its not easy to talk about your failures, but its necessary to build a better game. If people are sure of your commitment to improve the game and fix your mistakes, then they will gladly pay any amount of money, just like they do for a lot of games.

Lastly I leave here a reddit thread that has a lot of people worried/outraged by basically all I have written about. I know the title is about the price, but the underlining problem is about the trust that a lot of consumers lost in you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...ite_dangerous_has_an_upcoming_60_usd_dlc_new/

Please, don't let one of my favorite games die. This kind of sci-fi space simulator is something I have wanted since playing Freespace and Freelancer. This is the game that I would see myself playing for decades on. Please make it so it's possible and not just a pipe dream.

TL;DR: I don't want for core gameplay mechanics to change. I just want clear communication between what the developers want and what the players expect.

 

[Alien]

I admit I have never played any Elite games before Elite: Dangerous

The thread title is "Don't kill my dream game", I must ask ...

I played Elite in 1985 on the Commodore 64, I was aged 13.
I played Frontier Elite 2 in 1993 on the Amiga 1200
I played Frontier First Encounters on the PC in 2010 when FFED3D was brought to my attention on this very forum.
I was pushing Michael Brookes for information on Elite IV (as we called it back then) when The Outsider was cancelled long before the Kickstarter for Elite Dangerous
I was here when David Walsh posted at 11pm UK time "We have something to announce" and stayed glued to this forum for an hour, then I backed the Kickstarter.

I must ask ... how is Elite Dangerous your dream game more than it is my dream game and why should Frontier listen to you when they certainly and rightly don't listen to me?

The problem with ED is that you, FD and David Braben apparently don't know what you want the game to be.

They do know, they're just not telling you what their plan is.

Let David Braben or Michael Brooks directly respond to suggestions, even better if it were via live stream,

David was on the live stream on Wednesday answering questions and Michael answers questions on the forum all the time.

Lastly I leave here a reddit thread that has a lot of people worried/outraged by basically all I have written about. I know the title is about the price, but the underlining problem is about the trust that a lot of consumers lost in you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...ite_dangerous_has_an_upcoming_60_usd_dlc_new/

Please, don't let one of my favorite games die. This kind of sci-fi space simulator is something I have wanted since playing Freespace and Freelancer. This is the game that I would see myself playing for decades on. Please make it so it's possible and not just a pipe dream.

Here's the thing about Reddit, people post on there because they would get shot down in flames on here. Reddit is only marginally better than Steam when it comes to people's opinion.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Then why is it much better to play the game Solo at the moment?

Just one or two points:
Your opinion is not shared by everyone. The game is not dying at the moment so I don't see a risk as far as you seem to be worried.

This post (in my opinion) belongs here:https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169599&highlight=solo+open
many many pages of posts, this is the third of its kind since it hit thread limit. Lots of arguments on both sides it would seem

Edit: Last word from Braben on these things were that "All game-modes are valid and we are not planning to change that" although Sandro did say they were looking at maybe making solo/group count less for certain activities

That reddit, thanks for my daily dose of laughter the complaints about horizons price thread is this way: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172181&highlight=horizons+discussion

 

[deMangler]

I want you to have what you want in life OP, but if Elite Dangerous turns into what it seems is your dream game then my dream game will be dead and mutilated.
I have a lot to complain about such as DDA features missing and so-on, but still ED is thankfully one if the few games, in fact the only high budget game, that I am grateful is not going down the path it seems you would like it to.
I have been trying very hard to make my views about the game known since kickstarter and as part of the DDF and I can assure you that FD take on board ideas that fit with their idea if the game and do not if it doesn't. I may be flabbergasted by some of the decisions they have made but I can see they do have a clear vision of the game, they just seem to want us to experience what that vision turns into rather than describing it in advance.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

Then why is it much better to play the game Solo at the moment? You receive all the rewards of Open play, except there is no danger (...)

Believe it or not but for a lot of us that does not qualify as "better". Some people do actually like to be challenged.

 

[OldSalt]

Not merged yet ? Must be a slow day.

 

[Gidio]

Ok it seems that a lot of you misunderstood me: I don't want for core gameplay mechanics to change. I just want a separation between Open and Solo and just for clear communication between what the developers want and what the players expect.

If that is called 'completely the opposite of the game that you want' then you are probably looking for a single player platformer (I suggest super Mario Bros. I've heard it's pretty good) and not this game.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Ok it seems that a lot of you misunderstood me: I don't want for core gameplay mechanics to change. I just want a separation between Open and Solo and just for clear communication between what the developers want and what the players expect.

If that is called 'completely the opposite of the game that you want' then you are probably looking for a single player platformer (I suggest super Mario Bros. I've heard it's pretty good) and not this game.

Yeah, again Solo vs. Open discussion thread.
How would it work, to provide an example:

I have 700mil in assets at the moment. Would I have to re-play my entire game in Private group mode if I fancy swapping to it for a while to play with a friend?
What if my internet connection is really poor and I want to save other people from my lag? (Has actually happened to me)
What if I want to take HD screenshots but can't because my Solo ship is still back at Sol?

Although as above, it really belongs in the mega thread.

 

[Jockey79]

Hello Mr Maynard,

One of the problems you have later on is the kill value when killing in a wing is also divided.
Simon

And so is it's damage output, as one person starts to take too much damage they can boost away and the NPC will just swap targets to the next closest human. So you have less risk. Also you can kill NPCs exponentially faster in Wings, so by the time a Solo person kills one, a Wing can be on their 3rd or 4th - so they are still earning money faster than the Solo player - with less risk and someone to talk to while playing.

As you've pointed out, trading in a Wing makes more profits than a person in Solo.

Wings add a massive bonus to Group and Open play modes that you simply cannot get in Solo. Yet it is the Open players who want more.

 

[babelfisch]

Ok it seems that a lot of you misunderstood me: I don't want for core gameplay mechanics to change. I just want a separation between Open and Solo and just for clear communication between what the developers want and what the players expect.

If that is called 'completely the opposite of the game that you want' then you are probably looking for a single player platformer (I suggest super Mario Bros. I've heard it's pretty good) and not this game.

You should consider posting this in the appropriate thread.
BTW I like the current implementation of solo/open. If this really makes players leave, I am not sure if I really want to play with them.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Stop making Solo influence the universe of Open.

People really need to give up on asking for this, and forget about any possibility of the modes being separated. The devs have made it very clear that it is simply not going to happen (which in my opinion is a very good thing).

 

[Muzz UK]

Gave up reading too much to read... ie it's a rant.

 

[Gidio]

Yeah, again Solo vs. Open discussion thread.
How would it work, to provide an example:

I have 700mil in assets at the moment. Would I have to re-play my entire game in Private group mode if I fancy swapping to it for a while to play with a friend?
What if my internet connection is really poor and I want to save other people from my lag? (Has actually happened to me)
What if I want to take HD screenshots but can't because my Solo ship is still back at Sol?

Although as above, it really belongs in the mega thread.

Although my second point is basically my main point and the first point is a gripe: Solo players should definetaly not be crippled by this. They should just not be able to influence the economy and Powerplay. Heck, I don't even care if you switch from one to another, but everything you do in Solo, shouldn't influence the Open galaxy. So not the CGs (Yes, I know I will get backlash but they are called Community Goals, come on), not the Powerplay, not supply demand of stations and not the system turmoil/economic boom. If it's possible, it would be great if that data would just be saved for the Solo CMDRs individually.