Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jockey79]

It would be very nice if players on all sides of this debate could do their best to conduct themselves civilly and with suitable respect for opposing arguments.

I tried that, I got called a "coward", told I was "hiding" and needed to "learn to play".
After a dozen posts aimed at myself and a few others, I responded - I got put on the naughty step for a week but that poster didn't.
(and their posts are still there for all to see - I keep checking. 2 have been editing but the main core of insults is still there)

I even tried being nice and got called names, and the person being insulting got away with it.

It makes it hard to be civil when under a constant barrage of insults and they get away with it. Check the Open PvE thread, see where it started and who said what - I admit, I got fed up in the end and started being snide back. And yes, it felt good telling people what I thought of them.

We've lost Steve Law and Dabba for this very reason, 2 decent and fun forum members, walked away because the insults flow quite freely from people who should have had their accounts closed months ago.

(Not having a pop at you by the way, just explaining why some of us have given up being civil)

 

[relayer]

-1 for misspelling 'color' (sic)

a-HEM! I read too many Brit books as a child and am always being told I am spelling 'colour' and 'theatre' wrong :O

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Yup, I'm a relative newbie to the "Status Quo" team... Think of Rhino Edwards more than Francis Rossi. It does feel cyclic. Every week or so the new name in town fails to read any of the thread and jumps in telling everyone that they are wrong, that they are not understanding how the game needs to change and then casting aspersions as to why they don't embrace Open as the "true mode", or variations thereof.
-
Those points, such as they are, get rebutted, Jockey pastes in his "story so far" roll-up of rebuttals. It then descends into snidery, obfuscation, internet arguing levers and downright abuse in some cases (occasionally from both sides). The protagonist then fades out, probably as the thread is keeping them away from their preferred play-style in-game.
-
The thread reverts to being the bar in "Cheers" for a few days and then the cycle starts again... Bit like a David Eddings series of novels

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Actually just the opposite. The timer starts when you first hit the target(get the assault bounty). You can threaten all day, only once the violence starts do you need to be quick. It only really effects situations where the target needs "convincing" but eventually complies. It's also another downside for the use of limpets.

it is never gonna happen so not even sure why bringing it up, but, 1 think frontier could consider...

when there is no beta running, use the beta server for some testing for piracy and PvP. Give everyone access (maybe) and - for arguments sake -

ask everyone who flies to leesti to grief (aka blind kill people they see) - i am sure traders whould not mind opening themselves to it in a test. all they have to try to do is attempt to get out of dodge or fight back!
everyone who flies to lave, to properly pirate - the trader can choose to submit, run or fight

anyone seen to be breaking these rules would simply lose their access to the testing no effect on the main game so no harm no foul..

and then FD could dabble with the legal repercussions and the police response as well as the punishments.. they can then monitor players and see how hard life is for them then in high sec space. They can play with the limpets and what not to try to find that balance allowing piracy whilst making life tough for the anarchists in high sec space.


once this is done and security and repercussions in hi sec is something like a level they like, they can do the same at medium, low and finally anarchy.

but because it is all in beta, they can really try some "out there" responses and have elite vulutures respond and all sorts. No one will mind as its beta (make the gear cheap to replace)

I dunno..... just an idea rather than using tiny strokes in the main game where a mistake can actually mess up peoples game time badly and what may seem on paper a good idea, may accidentally destroy an entre profession by making piracy harder than say simple ganking..

edit.

I know this is not directly an open / solo thing BUT for some people (not all) - but me at least - part of the reason I am no longer in open when not playing with mates is a feeling of injustice and the fact that the game is hugely balanced towards those who want to see the world burn, and heavily against those who just want to live a clean "honest" life.

 

[Schmack]

Here's the thing about Solo vs Open (because that's really what we're talking about, Group is just another version of Solo):

Solo players: Don't care who plays group or Solo, couldn't care less actually

Open players: Do care who plays Open or Solo because many of them want more human targets


Spin that how you like, there's no concern from non-Open players about Open vs Solo. It's the same galaxy, without the riff raff, and there's enough NPC action to make the game a game instead of a social event.

 

[Jockey79]

Here's the thing about Solo vs Open (because that's really what we're talking about, Group is just another version of Solo):

Solo players: Don't care who plays group or Solo, couldn't care less actually

Open players: Do care who plays Open or Solo because many of them want more human targets


Spin that how you like, there's no concern from non-Open players about Open vs Solo. It's the same galaxy, without the riff raff, and there's enough NPC action to make the game a game instead of a social event.

Nice summary.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Here's the thing about Solo vs Open (because that's really what we're talking about, Group is just another version of Solo):

Not so sure about that, group does fit much more as another version of Open then Solo. Group is about playing with others, that is much more similiar to open then solo.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Here's the thing about Solo vs Open (because that's really what we're talking about, Group is just another version of Solo):

Solo players: Don't care who plays group or Solo, couldn't care less actually

Open players: Do care who plays Open or Solo because many of them want more human targets


Spin that how you like, there's no concern from non-Open players about Open vs Solo. It's the same galaxy, without the riff raff, and there's enough NPC action to make the game a game instead of a social event.

Ah my old friend "open players only want more targets to shoot". The solo side's equivalent of "They only want an easy mode to hide in".

 

[ianw]

Yup, I'm a relative newbie to the "Status Quo" team... Think of Rhino Edwards more than Francis Rossi. It does feel cyclic. Every week or so the new name in town fails to read any of the thread and jumps in telling everyone that they are wrong, that they are not understanding how the game needs to change and then casting aspersions as to why they don't embrace Open as the "true mode", or variations thereof.
-
Those points, such as they are, get rebutted, Jockey pastes in his "story so far" roll-up of rebuttals. It then descends into snidery, obfuscation, internet arguing levers and downright abuse in some cases (occasionally from both sides). The protagonist then fades out, probably as the thread is keeping them away from their preferred play-style in-game.
-
The thread reverts to being the bar in "Cheers" for a few days and then the cycle starts again... Bit like a David Eddings series of novels

+1 on the Cheers analogy

 

[ianw]

Ah my old friend "open players only want more targets to shoot". The solo side's equivalent of "They only want an easy mode to hide in".

The thing is though you see lots of pirates say that they will go for the easy targets because that's what a real pirate would do - they're the bad guys after all - it makes no sense for them to go for something they can beat and rob.

I've said before many times I just don't see how you can make the player pirate v player trader thing work unless both are up for it.

Forget roles and ship types for a minute.

What you have is one player using a client that is specifically enabled to over power another player's client that has been designed to move lots of stuff around the game area.

In other words you have a situation when one player is able to dictate what the other player does in that confrontation - that is bound to upset the less enabled player - unless they are specifically up for that.

And as we all know - not everyone is.

 

[Schmack]

Not so sure about that, group does fit much more as another version of Open then Solo. Group is about playing with others, that is much more similiar to open then solo.

I don't think the issue is about playing with others. It's about playing with unwanted others.

Here's an analogy I think fits well:

You go to a lake to enjoy fishing on a calm day, in your boat. You're out there and soon there are personal watercraft zooming here and there, splashing water on you, making big wakes, making noise.. scaring the fish. To them it's what the lake is for. You go find a quieter place where you can fish in peace. They show up again and do the same thing. Why didn't they just stay at the other end? Because part of their fun is to ruin yours. That's what they think fun is, and it's how they approach "going to the lake". Peace and quiet isn't even in their mindset. It's all me vs you. You would rather have the lake to yourself, but they would rather have 100 more boats out there to grief. If you left them to themselves, no one else on the lake, they'd zoom around a bit and leave. There's no boat wake to jump, no one to agitate, no racing... no one to splash.

Some people need that interaction. Some people don't. The same game provides both, but it allows the calm lakes guys to operate in peace with no human decisions affecting their gameplay, while the noisy, run and gun folks get their share of others who want to be part of the chaos.

So when you bring Group into it, Group would be the friends you invite fishing with you. It's not like you invite people to come grief you. In that case, Solo and Group are the same things, relative to Open.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah my old friend "open players only want more targets to shoot". The solo side's equivalent of "They only want an easy mode to hide in".

Both have truths. It's not a contest though. If it were the "hide in" would make sense. I don't mind it though. I'll accept that reason.

 

[Julissa Silver]

We've lost Steve Law and Dabba for this very reason, 2 decent and fun forum members, walked away because the insults flow quite freely from people who should have had their accounts closed months ago.

For what it's worth, I've mostly given up on trying to converse seriously on most issues because of this exact issue. Hence Bacon Cats.

Here's an analogy I think fits well:

If I could rep you again, I'd give you a heap of reps so big you'd get musclebound.

+49 bacons.

The thread reverts to being the bar in "Cheers" for a few days and then the cycle starts again...

Now that demands a discussion about who is who in that august (if inebriated) assemblage. Probably not here though, as it'll only end in gratuitous offtopicitousness. Bacon Cat discussion, perhaps?

 

[Schmack]

Yup, I'm a relative newbie to the "Status Quo" team... Think of Rhino Edwards more than Francis Rossi. It does feel cyclic. Every week or so the new name in town fails to read any of the thread and jumps in telling everyone that they are wrong, that they are not understanding how the game needs to change and then casting aspersions as to why they don't embrace Open as the "true mode", or variations thereof.
-
Those points, such as they are, get rebutted, Jockey pastes in his "story so far" roll-up of rebuttals. It then descends into snidery, obfuscation, internet arguing levers and downright abuse in some cases (occasionally from both sides). The protagonist then fades out, probably as the thread is keeping them away from their preferred play-style in-game.
-
The thread reverts to being the bar in "Cheers" for a few days and then the cycle starts again... Bit like a David Eddings series of novels

Nice.

Part of the "doesn't read" is caused by merging of other threads though.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Nice.

Part of the "doesn't read" is caused by merging of other threads though.

Or is it they get merged because they didn't check the forum for the stickied threadnought? This could become a Mobius strip... or would that be a cartoon about the struggles of a PvE group in a hostile would-be-pvp world?

 

[ianw]

I had to look but it's not actually stickied - maybe that's the problem..

(I always go off the new posts lists I have no idea which sub forum any particular thread is without looking..)

 

[willowfan]

It isn't stickied any more though, sometimes this thread sinks as low as page 3 or 4

Another Mod (not Robert) decided to unsticky it some time ago, at least a couple of months.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Oh poot... That's it, unless this thread is stickied, ED will fail and we will all go off to that other game with stickied threadnoughts on the community boards...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The thing is though you see lots of pirates say that they will go for the easy targets because that's what a real pirate would do - they're the bad guys after all - it makes no sense for them to go for something they can beat and rob.

I've said before many times I just don't see how you can make the player pirate v player trader thing work unless both are up for it.

Forget roles and ship types for a minute.

What you have is one player using a client that is specifically enabled to over power another player's client that has been designed to move lots of stuff around the game area.

In other words you have a situation when one player is able to dictate what the other player does in that confrontation - that is bound to upset the less enabled player - unless they are specifically up for that.

And as we all know - not everyone is.

sure the pirate has the power in the fight but a trader can dictate what he does before the fight. Where he trades, what he trades, what ship he uses, if he uses countermeasures, how well equipped his ship is. A trader's control is preventive in nature. Pirates actively control the fight.

 

[Riktar]

I don't think the issue is about playing with others. It's about playing with unwanted others.

Here's an analogy I think fits well:

You go to a lake to enjoy fishing on a calm day, in your boat. You're out there and soon there are personal watercraft zooming here and there, splashing water on you, making big wakes, making noise.. scaring the fish. To them it's what the lake is for. You go find a quieter place where you can fish in peace. They show up again and do the same thing. Why didn't they just stay at the other end? Because part of their fun is to ruin yours.

<snip>

So when you bring Group into it, Group would be the friends you invite fishing with you. It's not like you invite people to come grief you.

This analogy is spot on.

 

[ianw]

sure the pirate has the power in the fight but a trader can dictate what he does before the fight. Where he trades, what he trades, what ship he uses, if he uses countermeasures, how well equipped his ship is. A trader's control is preventive in nature. Pirates actively control the fight.

Yes I'd agree for myself certainly - I don't have problems with it.

But I can see why some do.

I think it's a fundamental issue - online anonymous gaming does allow people to ignore common courtesy that dictates they would behave towards strangers in RL.

If I'm in the park - a public shared space - having a kick around with mates or just taking a stroll someone I don't know isn't going to come up to me, demand I talk to them and throw a ball in my face and declare that I'm now playing dodgeball with them.

Yet if I'm in open - a public shared space albeit with an entry fee - some people think it's fine to come up to me, demand my attention and play the way they want to.

That would be fine in CQC arena - no-one could expect to go in there and not get attacked. But open is a shared playing area for all game styles some of which are totally incompatible - some people expect to do what they like to whoever they like whenever whereas others expect a similar set of unwritten rules that you find in everyday life.

It aint ever gonna work like this.