You are absolutely right in that regard.
The game was also advertised as having multiple modes in 1 BGS and that's how people play it.
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The game was also advertised as having multiple modes in 1 BGS and that's how people play it.
can you kindly show me where it was advertised as a primarily pve game? Not hidden in some dev diary from 2 years ago or from the kickstarter, but easily accessible for the avg player who bought the game.
I'm not trying to discredit DB's quote. Rare and meaningful is meaningless. It's a completely subjective phrase that can mean two different things to two different people.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It can equally be asked: where is it advertised as a primarily PvP game?
I have no problem with piracy I play mostly in open, I think piracy and PvP add to the game bring on the cutthroat galaxy. But getting slaughtered isn't going to encourage traders (your targets) or pirates (my targets) into open.
Just as some traders/PvP'ers use combat logging as an exploit to avoid death (why when a high wake sir robin is so easy ?), some players with bounties use exploits to clear their status (I'm not accusing you).
Fix some exploits to level the playing field and open becomes more tempting. The reason I went group/solo (sometimes) in the first place was my boredom with station rammers pre speed limit,
I'm not against PvP or priates, I'm against being trapped in a mode with exploiters (of any kind).
Why are the dev diaries irrelevant in your eyes now, just because they don't back up your point of view maybe? And by saying 'rare and meaningful' is meaningless, you are, by definition, discrediting DB's quote. And sorry, there does not seem to be much wriggle room for 'subjectiveness' in that statement, it is clear, concise and undeniably DB's 'vison', has he failed a bit in delivering that?, certainly up for debate, but the idea/quote is clear.
I'm not claiming it is. I'm claiming it was advertised as both. Just as some chose to mostly play pve, I chose to mostly play pvp.
The dev diaries are irrelevant because you can't hide the main purpose of a game somewhere most people won't see and then claim they should know it.
I say subjective because it is subjective. My idea of rare and meaningful is different from yours. Your idea is different from everyone else. If he gave a specific answer, we want to only happen once a week and for it to be more than just loss for one side, that's an actual quanfiable.
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I don't slaughter traders, at least if they comply. If they are willing to leave open because of a legit pirate, they'll definitely leave when they encounter griefers.
I agree that exploits on both sides are hurting open. its a shame too, I think the game could work if all the balance issues were addressed.
They are as relevant as any quote from say Sandro, form 18 months ago outlining how piracy was intended to work, they are as relevant as the 'cut-throat galaxy' advertising you used presumably from the main page? By the way, that 'cut-throat galaxy' spiel on the front page does not mention piracy, does not mention pvp nor does it mention 'pew pew for the lulz' yet you seem keen to hijack it to mean something it does not. We can debate whether the AI are even capable of making the galaxy cut-throat all day long but please do not presume or infer that phrases meaning to suit your play style when it states nothing of the sort.
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It is interesting that the people who refute "rare and meaningful" as subjective fall back on;
"Cut throat" and my personal favourite that is overused, "it has "Dangerous" in the name".
For some, the AI is "cut throat" and "Dangerous" - I once had an elite Anaconda interdict me when I was in my T9, it battered me big time.
I've had novice Anacondas interdict me and I've run rings around them in my T9. So for me personally, the AI is well balanced for general gameplay.
Other people find them harder, others find them easier.
The whole game can be classed as subjective - but I'd argue my wall of information shows a consistency and removes any vague ideas.
If read from top to bottom, you can see the idea / vision Frontier have for the game, you can put the context in place for "rare and meaningful"
if you follow the video links and listen to DBOBE talking about ED as well as reading up the whole theme of the game.
haha. Oh Lord, there will be more groaning about this: I'm in open, but my target landed on a planet and I don't have that expansion!!!11!! He should be on a different server!
LOL
Good point, not really given that any thought. It actually creates its own sales demand for the addon - as traders will figure out they could shake a chaser by landing, and after a few chasers see targets go land on planets where they cannot follow - they will be forced into buying the addon so they can continue to chase traders who make a swerve for a planet soon as they see a human on the scanner.
Yep, that's the issue from my perspective. I think we agree from different sides of the fence.
If I had a cargo bay I'd drop you some stuff, seeing as I don't you'll have to settle for ammo traveling at muzzle velocity you scurvy space-rat
o7.Here is the full direct quote from the steam store page. It's the same as the fd store page.
"Elite: Dangerousis the definitive massively multiplayer space epic, bringing gaming’s original open world adventure to the modern generation with a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky way galaxy reated at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the iconic Elite. In an age of galactic superpowers and interstellar war, every player’s story influences the unique connected gaming experience and handcrafted evolving narrative. Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity’s frontier is reshaped, all by players’ actions.
400 Billion Star Systems. Infinite Freedom. Blaze Your Own Trail.
A Galaxy Of Wonders
The 400 billion star systems of the Milky Way are the stage forElite: Dangerous' open-ended gameplay. The real stars, planets, moons, asteroid fields and black holes of our own galaxy are built to their true epic proportions in the largest designed playspace in videogame history.
A Unique Connected Game Experience
Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity’s frontier is reshaped, all by players’ actions. In an age of galactic superpowers and interstellar war, every player’s personal story influences the connected galaxy and handcrafted evolving narrative.
Blaze Your Own Trail
Upgrade your ship and customize every component as you hunt, explore, fight, mine, smuggle, trade and survive in the cutthroat galaxy of the year 3301. Do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.
Massively Multiplayer
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world inElite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Experience the connected galaxy alone in Solo mode or with players across the world in Open Play, where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy. You will need to register a freeElite: Dangerousaccount with Frontier to play the game.
A Living Game
Elite: Dangerousgrows and expands with new features and content. Major updates react to the way players want to play and create new gameplay opportunities for the hundreds of thousands of players cooperating, competing and exploring together in the connected galaxy.
The Original Open World Adventure
Elite: Dangerousis the third sequel to 1984's genre-defining Elite, bringing gaming’s original open world adventure into the modern generation with a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entire Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions."
Notice the multiplayer bit?
"Massively Multiplayer
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world inElite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Experience the connected galaxy alone in Solo mode or with players across the world in Open Play, where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy."
Tell me that can't be read with a competitive pvp focus. I'm just reading what is written. If what is written is vague or wrong. That's not the problem of people expecting something different. It's the problem of the game devs for not marketing what they have correctly.
You honestly can't expect players to go through everything the devs ever released looking for the decoder ring to decipher the meaning of the store page. If two players can read what the game is about on the store page and only one can be correct, you done goofed at game marketing.
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It certainly can be read that way, but it is clearly optional.
Not arguing that bit, just that a pvp oriented playstyle is just as valid, at least according to the games marketing.
All play styles are equally valid. It's just that some people consider some play styles to be more equal than others, and moan that there are not enough targets for them in unequal combat.
People don't need to look up the games history (even though I did - most of my wall is before my time). But they do need to read things properly - please note the bit I've underlined in YOUR post.
The Devs have not hidden a thing, and research is not needed - just the ability to read is needed.
Also from Steam;
At no point is the game advertised or sold as a PvP game, no where does it say you are guaranteed to meet other people.
The fact in 2 places, Solo / Single jumps out shows that there is a choice of playing with others.
Couple that with some research and the sentence "rare and meaningful" is very very clear. You are not supposed to be bumping into other players randomly - every other system, if you were - the word "rare" would be an outright lie.
And everything they say you can do in the game - you can do to NPCs (not getting into the balance pass NPC traders need - we all know they need it)
Completely agree with you on the bounty board - in the early DDF proposals those players with bounties caused by PvP action would be logging into Open every time they logged on, no matter what mode they clicked
It's a real shame that has not been implemented. And before someone says "Hypocrite! You advocate that all modes are open to everyone anytime - how dare you now FORCE people into Open Only mode!" that is a simple function of consequence. Players should be able to gain huge bounties from shooting NPC's all day, and stay in Solo and enjoy killing cops if that is their thing. Nobody cares. Players attaining up huge bounties by slaughtering other players though, that should have both PC and NPC ships looking for them.
From a certain viewpoint, it's only the most infamous player-killer griefing pew-pews who are actually hiding in Solo
I'm not so sure about tracking individual players as that could lead to griefing.
Actually I believe you sir have hit on something...that is partly what I was aluding to...if say pc person 1...decides to go on a griefing spree...and makes life royally unfun for other pc's in open play...said individual should be forced to continue to fly in open instead of hiding for whatever time it takes to loose the bounty...or rather the bounty should stand till collected...the ability to move from one type of play to another should have some kind of safety valve to handle people like that.
Now the down side of this...person (A) is a pirate...think Jordan is one of those...and he plays his role according to the pirate "rules"...do they have rules?...anyhow...lets say said pirate plays his roll...pulls a person from supercruise...ask em to drop tribute, cargo...etc...etc or they get roasted...well that is actually a valid roll on open play...the PC decides im a gonna run aint givin that blasted no good pirate my hard earned stuff (rightly so)...pirate opens up on said person...kinda like firing across the bow to let em know they mean business...guy runs or fights...maybe pirate blows guy up...maybe he runs but cargo hold gets blasted open and cargo gets spilled...pirate gets fined and bounty for the kill if it happens...he scoops the stolen goods to take to a BM place and sell for profit...he would also end up being targeted by this same rule...as well a program gonna have a hard time deciding who is role playing and griefing....now mayhaps Jordan( sorry friend just using you for example as one of your post alluded to the pirate role) doing the pirate thing is now forced to stay in open...but Jordan might like to go fly with his buddies for a bit who like mining but just kinda want to hang and chat a bit not mix it up...Jordan gonna have to tell em sorry guys can't...I was being the terror of the hmm big black and got my ill gotten booty but I popped the trader and I gotta run and hide in open for the time being...
Yes I agree that griefers should have to answer for what they do...but for the guys that make the PVP interesting and fit in the unfolding story...I don't believe they should have to pay a steep price...yes deal with the consequences of their actions...and I think they would be ok with it...but not pay for another's sins so to speak.
I'm an advocate of both styles of play for their functional purpose...and what they add or could add to immersion and game dynamic...I think both sides of this debate can see that there is right on both sides...but the griefers muddy the waters and kind of keeps things confusing.
I really don't want to lose the solo, group, or open play function...I like it...but I don't think that it should be a way for someone who has gone on a spree to make someone elses day bad because the boss picked on em that day and they want to bully someone else either...or more likely mom made em take out the trash and they need to feel more empowered so go pick on people in ED...can someone say grounded you not playing for a whole week young man...or lady...don't want to not be equal in this at all
hey ladies can be griefers to ya know.I'm mixed about this idea. I normally don't like ideas that harshly punish pirates unjustly, but it also doesn't bother career pirates at all since they are always playing open anyway. It mainly will only effect solo players turned pvp killer or pirate from swapping back to solo after they had their fill.Completely agree with you on the bounty board - in the early DDF proposals those players with bounties caused by PvP action would be logging into Open every time they logged on, no matter what mode they clicked
It's a real shame that has not been implemented. And before someone says "Hypocrite! You advocate that all modes are open to everyone anytime - how dare you now FORCE people into Open Only mode!" that is a simple function of consequence. Players should be able to gain huge bounties from shooting NPC's all day, and stay in Solo and enjoy killing cops if that is their thing. Nobody cares. Players attaining up huge bounties by slaughtering other players though, that should have both PC and NPC ships looking for them.
From a certain viewpoint, it's only the most infamous player-killer griefing pew-pews who are actually hiding in Solo
I'm not so sure about tracking individual players as that could lead to griefing.
I don't share your sentiment that player killers hide in solo or even need to. The bounty system is a joke, fly one system over and you're cmdr upstanding citizen. There's no need to hide in solo when you can hide in anyone of the other billions of systems. With the fine added to "clean" interdictions, you're not going to get stopped and scanned by a player bounty hunter anyway.
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