Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jordan Cobalt]

People don't need to look up the games history (even though I did - most of my wall is before my time). But they do need to read things properly - please note the bit I've underlined in YOUR post.
The Devs have not hidden anything research is not needed - just the ability to read is needed.

At no point is the game advertised or sold as a PvP game, no where does it say you are guaranteed to meet other people.
The fact in 2 places, Solo / Single jumps out shows that there is a choice of playing with others.

Couple that with some research and the sentence "rare and meaningful" is very very clear. You are not supposed to be bumping into other players randomly - every other system, if you were - the word "rare" would be an outright lie.
And everything they say you can do in the game - you can do to NPCs (not getting into the balance pass NPC traders need - we all know they need it)

I didn't say it was sold as a pvp only game. It was sold as both. How is choosing to do only pvp different and wrong compared to choosing only pve?

Like I said, what was on the store page was all the info the devs thought you needed to know about the game. You cannot expect new players to go out and search for the rare and meaningful decoder ring to decipher what the store page said. Players arent trying to crack the da vinchi code, they are trying see if the game is for them. If coop is/was the vocal point of the game it should have been the vocal point in the game's marketing.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If a player wants to do as much PvP as he can in open, in say the form of legitimate piracy or bounty hunting I think the majority accept that. Where imo the line is crossed when people come here complaining there are not enough ships to attack and demand that the cowards, care bears and inept players are forced into open. The lowest of the low are the pricks who to 1 step further and deliberately invade private groups with the sole purpose of trying to spoil it.

Sadly until FD offers large ingame penalties for such actions , going to more severe penalties when needed imo a small subset of players are going to spoil it for many. Clearly Jordan this is not aimed at you!

Players are not wrong in thinking PvP is possible but no where does it state open will be chok full of human targets

 

[Cowboy Bats]

I agree that exploits on both sides are hurting open. its a shame too, I think the game could work if all the balance issues were addressed.

That's where we really differ Jordan. As far as I'm concerned the game is working right now.

 

[Jockey79]

I'm mixed about this idea. I normally don't like ideas that harshly punish pirates unjustly, but it also doesn't bother career pirates at all since they are always playing open anyway. It mainly will only effect solo players turned pvp killer or pirate from swapping back to solo after they had their fill.

I don't share your sentiment that player killers hide in solo or even need to. The bounty system is a joke, fly one system over and you're cmdr upstanding citizen. There's no need to hide in solo when you can hide in anyone of the other billions of systems. With the fine added to "clean" interdictions, you're not going to get stopped and scanned by a player bounty hunter anyway.

I'm sure I read somewhere that faction wide bounties will be coming, this current set up was just the start of the changes.
And yes, I'm with you - the current set up is a joke as it stands. FD should have brought out the system in its entirety not in dribs and drabs.

I didn't say it was sold as a pvp only game. It was sold as both. How is choosing to do only pvp different and wrong compared to choosing only pve?

Like I said, what was on the store page was all the info the devs thought you needed to know about the game. You cannot expect new players to go out and search for the rare and meaningful decoder ring to decipher what the store page said. Players arent trying to crack the da vinchi code, they are trying see if the game is for them. If coop is/was the vocal point of the game it should have been the vocal point in the game's marketing.

So the first part of "Massively Multiplayer" saying you can Solo does not scream out - do more reading to you?
Such a major contradiction in terms, supported by Steam classing the game as Single and Multiplayer AND MMO - none of this says, Google more information???

Because it did to me.
It did to others in this thread.
It did to others in the past 2 threads.

While I have suggested before, that a final line of defense be coded into the game (a warning box when you click to play open, stating the game has open PvP), why should anyone care if people want to wander about the internet with their eyes closed randomly buying games?

I will concede, the game needs a real Demo for people to try. Open only, can only have 1 ship, max credits 100k (lets you try stuff out without letting you go crazy) say 24 hours in game time total before lockout.
At least that way, people can get a feel for the game without it costing them money or having to sit through an hour or 2 of YouTube or Twitch (which I did, 7 days of it (and use of a friends Beta account for the same time) before I bought the game).

 

[Jockey79]

That's where we really differ Jordan. As far as I'm concerned the game is working right now.

Not quite.

NPC piracy is a joke, in fact it is the joke other jokes tell each other for a laugh.
If I had stuck with being a pirate myself (PvE only was my plan) - I'd still be in a sidey.... from last November.

Currently, piracy can only really exist through PvP - which is where a lot of the imbalance comes from. Bounty Hunters can fall back on NPCs, traders don't need anyone, explorers don't need anyone, miners just need rocks, smugglers rely on themselves - pirates need targets with something to steal....

Honestly, fit a cargo scanner and go sit at a Nav or run around RES and scan everything.... I'd say come back when you find good stuff to steal, but I'd like to talk to you again before my 100th birthday (36 now)

 

[Reaper99]

I'm mixed about this idea. I normally don't like ideas that harshly punish pirates unjustly, but it also doesn't bother career pirates at all since they are always playing open anyway. It mainly will only effect solo players turned pvp killer or pirate from swapping back to solo after they had their fill.

I don't share your sentiment that player killers hide in solo or even need to. The bounty system is a joke, fly one system over and you're cmdr upstanding citizen. There's no need to hide in solo when you can hide in anyone of the other billions of systems. With the fine added to "clean" interdictions, you're not going to get stopped and scanned by a player bounty hunter anyway.

I like career Pirates...don't want to make em retire ....sides after they go pop...sometimes...they know the best drinking holes...sometimes its the hunter that goes pop...part of life on the edge...but heck as long as they supply the drinks I'm good either way

 

[Mouse]

I think the whole FD mislead people with their advertisement is false, the reason why is "interpretations". Just because someone reads something and interprets it a certain way does not mean that was the meaning the author sought. Heck look at religious texts and the multitude of interpretations there, people fight and kill each other over how they interpret them.

At no point did FD say this was a PVP game, it did say that there was the chance of PVP in it IF players wanted it.

 

[Mohrgan]

More importantly the text says you, the individual player, can choose whom you play with, and that the Galaxy is connected. In solo, group, or open. Anyone who bothered to read, and not just see the shiny laser bolts, would see the intention that everyone plays in a shared galaxy. But that means nothing, as many of the posters who come here set out to change FD's and our minds.

 

[Mouse]

More importantly the text says you, the individual player, can choose whom you play with, and that the Galaxy is connected. In solo, group, or open. Anyone who bothered to read, and not just see the shiny laser bolts, would see the intention that everyone plays in a shared galaxy. But that means nothing, as many of the posters who come here set out to change FD's and our minds.

Or because they are angry that FD's meaning of a shared galaxy doesn't fit with their interpretation of it and so they have to raise their voices and try to change it to their interpretation, and damn anyone else who likes what FD intended.

 

[Marcns007]

I have now moved to open.

I played in the past in solo mainly due to my slow broadband and lag in Open - I have two sons who are permanently on their PC's playing games and on Skype at the same time.

I feel the game transforms when super smooth at 60 fps and no internet lag, so found solo the only option.

We have just upgraded to BT infinity as a stop gap before we get Gigaclear so it's Open from now on.

Hopefully its not as bad as what people say in open, so far I have only had 2 player ships in 3 hours on the scanner?

 

[Jockey79]

I have now moved to open.

I played in the past in solo mainly due to my slow broadband and lag in Open - I have two sons who are permanently on their PC's playing games and on Skype at the same time.

I feel the game transforms when super smooth at 60 fps and no internet lag, so found solo the only option.

We have just upgraded to BT infinity as a stop gap before we get Gigaclear so it's Open from now on.

I wish you luck, I wish you Godspeed (I never did understand this or why people use it),
and though you didn't ask for it, I will remind you;

For every one idiot/moron/griefer you may have the misfortune to encounter in Open, there are way more decent players out there.

 

[Mohrgan]

Or because they are angry that FD's meaning of a shared galaxy doesn't fit with their interpretation of it and so they have to raise their voices and try to change it to their interpretation, and damn anyone else who likes what FD intended.

I don't ascribe too much to another's frame of mind. It helps no one to pound in the 'us against them' suppositions. It just begs for retorts, and the sooner this thread falls into oblivion, the better.

 

[Jockey79]

.... the sooner this thread falls into oblivion, the better.

erm, check my sig.....

Just sayin'

 

[Mohrgan]

I wish you luck, I wish you Godspeed (I never did understand this or why people use it),
and though you didn't ask for it, I will remind you;

For every one idiot/moron/griefer you may have the misfortune to encounter in Open, there are way more decent players out there.

Godspeed: From Middle English phrase God spede ‎(“may God cause you to succeed”),

Just how many of those posts are just players poking each other in the eye?

 

[Marak]

Well I haven’t commented on this thread for a while – so here’s my 2 penneth.

Firstly – the 3 game modes, are fine and shouldn’t be changed (in my opinion).
I started in Solo (not because I’m a carebear or scared), Just because I wanted to explore the game on my own. And it was great, and I would have been happy to carry on in solo but I wanted to explore more things.

I tried Mobius and the people I met there were fantastic and I had great fun.

I tried Open and it too is great. I wouldn’t say it’s more dangerous or risky – I’ve only been attacked by CMDRs about 5 times –A few times I got killed with no chat, once I was taken to 20% hull (by a very friendly PvP guy) and once I won  (again against a CMDR who was happy to chat – even though he was a blasted desiccated corpse floating in the void of space) .

(This don’t include the times I met friends and we had friendly fights.)
I now fly in open nearly all the time – If I get to the point when I’ve died a bit too much and it’s looking a bit tight on the rebuy cost I may go back to solo to trade up a bit of cash (not that it’s easier in solo) – it’s just a bit more predictable.

So – in my opinion, the current system is fine. It’s not going to change, and there is no reason it should. I would encourage players to try all modes if they haven’t tried them, but everyone is entitled to play the way they want.

I may re-visit this thread in another 3 months time to see if anything has changed

xxx

 

[relayer]

It mainly will only effect solo players turned pvp killer or pirate from swapping back to solo after they had their fill.

<snip>

I don't share your sentiment that player killers hide in solo or even need to.

Either they hide in solo or they don't - which is it?

 

[why fi at all]

I don't slaughter traders, at least if they comply. If they are willing to leave open because of a legit pirate, they'll definitely leave when they encounter griefers.

I agree that exploits on both sides are hurting open. its a shame too, I think the game could work if all the balance issues were addressed.

from your posts here and comments from people that have encountered you, you are "player content" that enhances the game, not someone that detracts from the game.
unfortunately for both of us we are not likely to ever meet in game.

that was the prime reason that i posted the idea for a letter of marque [link to that post] that would give permission to pirate in both the open and open-pve [if ever implemented].
if open-PVE was an option i doubt i would ever leave it.

i played eve from first open to the public.
i enjoyed it for years.
griefers came in, formed corporations like m0o and bob and goon squad and such, and i kept trying to find a way to continue playing the game.
i failed in that effort.

about the time my solo character finally bought a caldari freighter, it was clear i was not going to enjoy the game anymore.

the multi-mode system i find here gives me hope that i will enjoy this game till the servers turn to dust [or i do].
although i am not quite ready for the lifetime pass, i want to upgrade to a 6 or 8 core i7 first.

the mode system as it is now is good enough that i bought the Elite Dangerous: Horizons expansion pack just announced. the beta access version.

i am hoping that the open-pve will be added, and perhaps the letter of marque as i described could be added to allow limited and significant PVP across the two open modes.

yes there would be hoops to jump through to get the letter of marque, but i think they should be able to be jumped with a low level ship, perhaps even a sidewinder.

i think that the letter should be easy to get and easy to keep for "proper pirates" like you.

and i hope the open-pve is added so that i can drop some cargo for you and perhaps have an interesting conversation in game.
the cargo can be replaced.

 

[relayer]

Just how many of those posts are just players poking each other in the eye?

The Three Stooges are in Open?!?! LEMMEATEM!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Does anyone else get the notion that at the moment, both sides are presenting a rather moderate standpoint, but are arguing against the extreme version of the other's standpoint?

If I'm not mistaken there's a lot of unspoken agreement here.

 

[Dave1235]

I'm sure I read somewhere that faction wide bounties will be coming, this current set up was just the start of the changes.
And yes, I'm with you - the current set up is a joke as it stands. FD should have brought out the system in its entirety not in dribs and drabs.
<snip>

I remember reading about faction wide bounty's too, although not recently. Would be interested to know when they will arrive.

They won't make a lot of difference to anyone other than PVP bounty hunters right away as far as I can see, but its a step in the right direction. What I really want to see the security level of the system having some meaning, that's not me having a dig at FD, I am sure its on the list and we will get it soon, that with faction wide bounty's will move us towards the vision of "rare & meaningful".

When I have to decide to take a longer route (or even check the systems on the way rather than type in destination and jump & scoop without a care) I will be a happy man, I should not be able to fly through an anarchy in an unarmed type6 full of rares and feel safe, just as a person who kills a few people in a supposedly safe system should not be welcome there, "docking pad denied" & system security with 3 Condas, 6 Vultures etc as a welcome party.

The systems in the middle should be varying degrees based on their level of security, although killing their security ships should make you KOS for a period of time, maybe killing CMDRs allied to them too.

I can't wait to see it working, it would be a massive improvement and I think it will encourage some people back into Open if they know a "safe" route is going to be relevantly safe, I would still go to anarchy's unarmed in open but the only thing I do in open is trade rares so I am a little weird.