Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Sysmon]

You have to remember, that for some Dudebro's, playing games is the pinnacle of existence. It is what motivates them and provides income via tubeyou, farcebook, whatever. A game to these people is not an interesting and entertaining diversion from the realities and cares of life, but a work environment. Not making games or working in industry as a dev or a play tester, working as an actual player. I just don't get it.

I once had someone submit their CV detailing their WOW characters with full statistics. I cannot even begin to imagine how anyone could have thought that was a good idea.

Haha I used to joke that I learned almost everything I know about project management from leading raids and guilds in WoW. Like herding cats.

Frankly, if someone has made a game their living, especially one including PvP, they need to learn what everybody else has to cope with in work life (especially consultants or business owners): To roll with the punches and to get back up after being dropped.

It is easy to be successful when there is nobody else to compete with. But it is an illusion of success. Even if ED had an offline mode, it would always be possible to go online and find somebody else being better at playing the game, based on some arbitrary indicator, finishing goals faster, having the better load-out, finding those unknowns, etc.

If you are in only to be the winner, you will always lose.

S

 

[relayer]

Well, if we use their logic, then it is "unfair" they can earn the money for that A spec 'Conda in CQC and troll open with it.
And there is no PvE missions or goals to stop them in their ghost arena with phantom credits coming to open to be griefers.

eh heh heh IC wut U did ther

+1 bacon

 

[Neminem]

Haha I used to joke that I learned almost everything I know about project management from leading raids and guilds in WoW. Like herding cats.

Frankly, if someone has made a game their living, especially one including PvP, they need to learn what everybody else has to cope with in work life (especially consultants or business owners): To roll with the punches and to get back up after being dropped.

It is easy to be successful when there is nobody else to compete with. But it is an illusion of success. Even if ED had an offline mode, it would always be possible to go online and find somebody else being better at playing the game, based on some arbitrary indicator, finishing goals faster, having the better load-out, finding those unknowns, etc.

If you are in only to be the winner, you will always lose.

S

To me a game session in ED (or any other game) has been successful if I had a good time and some fun while playing. How many credits I made or how many systems I managed to explore during that session is by far secondary. Sooner or later I will get the next upgrades for my ship or the next larger ship. Sooner or later I will explore the systems en route to that star I have chosen as destination for the next stage of my exploration trip. How long it takes, doesn't really matter to me - I'm in a game, not in a hurry.

 

[relayer]

Security for trade "soloplay".
Risk and fun for underminig "openplay" PVP.

Just to let you know, I also have fun playing solo or group

 

[Roybe]

Not married to a mode. I just completely refute any kind of PvP that does not have the previous and explicit agreement of every participant. Tried it in the past and found that I will never be able to enjoy any kind of non-consensual PvP.

Thus, and given that ED is a game that was designed and advertised as one where players would never be forced into PvP, never expect me to peacefully accept any kind of restriction for players that choose to completely avoid PvP.

No you don't! You do not refute that at all! You feel that Direct PvP must be consensual....Indirect PvP doesn't need anyone's consent, right? The fact that someone can affect the BGS or PowerPlay or a CG between sides..is OK! I would also state if a person chooses to be in Open they have given their consent for Direct PvP. Right? LOL, once more round the carousel?

 

[Roybe]

No, that is implicit agreement (if at all).

Whatever you want to believe!

Personally...if what you state is true...then why have direct PvP at all? Once CQC is out....turn Open into PvE only!

 

[Robert Maynard]

I would also state if a person chooses to be in Open they have given their consent for Direct PvP.

Given how prevalent this opinion is, it is hardly surprising that there are a number of players actively seeking an Open-PvE mode....

 

[Roybe]

Given how prevalent this opinion is, it is hardly surprising that there are a number of players actively seeking an Open-PvE mode....

No, I actually believe that because of this idea that Open should be PvE only...once CQC opens....Direct PvP is useless and will only be an irritation at that point.

 

[Sysmon]

It does seem odd to have the different game modes influence the same galaxy. It adds a level of passive-aggressive meta-gaming. Ideally each group had their own background simulation to influence. That is impractical, however.

OK, let's do away with Groups and Solo, and tighten up the penalty system in Open. Then everybody is happy, right?

S

 

[Sysmon]

Given how prevalent this opinion is, it is hardly surprising that there are a number of players actively seeking an Open-PvE mode....

Exactly! Just because I play in Open doesn't mean I want to be ready to fight for my life at every corner, and both parties automatically agreed on it. If there are people flying round with that attitude, and they can get away with it due to game mechanics, of course people want Open PvE. It would have to be implemented with care, though.

S

 

[Bomba Luigi]

It does seem odd to have the different game modes influence the same galaxy. It adds a level of passive-aggressive meta-gaming. Ideally each group had their own background simulation to influence. That is impractical, however.

OK, let's do away with Groups and Solo, and tighten up the penalty system in Open. Then everybody is happy, right?

S

Ehm, no? I play solo because I want to play alone. I'm not avoiding PvP, I avoid other players which happens to include PvP among some other things.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Naah - really need to keep Solo and Group as that is what many people prefer.

 

[relayer]

Hm? Every activity in Powerplay has a counteractivity, not a single one of those involves PvP or even needs you to be in the same instance with an Enemy. I assume you don't like those, nothing wrong with that, but then say it how it is: You can defend but you don't want to.

This is one of the huge points - people want to change the way PowerPlay works. They refuse the choices given as counter-measures (fortifying & undermining) and go on at great length about invisible ghost armies and so on. They will not play the game because they think politics is war. War is what happens when politics fail.

What's confusing to me is that many of these players state that they loathe PP. But they go on playing it, and want to affect it more at solo/group's expense. Which one is it?

And regarding those "ghost armies"... I'd hazard a guess that there are in-game Groups (or informal "groups") that are Guild-based. I'd further guess that those are the people open is so worried about. The "people duck into solo to avoid risk/retaliation" (probably) then rub it in X guild's face.

Open has problems. They aren't solo/groups problems. They are problems with the very mode the complainers are most on about.
It's not my problem.

 

[Sysmon]

No, just remove the ability to shoot and ram other commanders, and all those complains will magically dissapper

Yes. But how is that going to work in the state ED future science? We discussed it before. A system that kicks you out of the mode if you hit somebody else. A script magically loaded into your ship system that stops lasers from firing if another CMDR is in the way? That can be abused.

How will ramming be stopped? Removing the collision ability? Great idea, let's stack ships like in the original game, make one single blip on someones radar, then fan out and say "boo". [/SNARK]

How to deal with dedicated player killers have to be incorporated into the Elite universe somehow. My suggestion is to find ways to make it very risky by getting the player in trouble with the Pilot Federation. Think the original System Shock, where SHODAN was able to influence your ability to save the game. In ED, the PF might instead be able to sanction where and how a member of notoriety respawns and with what. My suggestion for an ultimate punishment is still in a scarab with a mining module on a dead rock somewhere as only possession until sentence have been paid off.

S

 

[relayer]

I once had someone submit their CV detailing their WOW characters with full statistics. I cannot even begin to imagine how anyone could have thought that was a good idea.

Wow. Just... wow.

 

[Sysmon]

Naah - really need to keep Solo and Group as that is what many people prefer.

Yes of course, just stirring the pot a bit. We do need to make Open attractive though. I don't think it is the cesspit some make it into. But then again, it's very tranquil out there 6500 lyr from Sol where I am.

S

 

[relayer]

It can't be done. Unless you want strictly controlled regions of systems ruled by an iron fist by a select number of players.

Aaaaaaannnndddd this is where "Guilds" sneak in...

 

[Jockey79]

Wow. Just... wow.

I see what you did there

 

[relayer]

I see what you did there

In the Days of Yore, I used to test new-built client systems with games. If they could run something like Quake or UT, they certainly would run anything an office could throw at them

 

[Mouse]

Yes. But how is that going to work in the state ED future science? We discussed it before. A system that kicks you out of the mode if you hit somebody else. A script magically loaded into your ship system that stops lasers from firing if another CMDR is in the way? That can be abused.

How will ramming be stopped? Removing the collision ability? Great idea, let's stack ships like in the original game, make one single blip on someones radar, then fan out and say "boo". [/SNARK]

How to deal with dedicated player killers have to be incorporated into the Elite universe somehow. My suggestion is to find ways to make it very risky by getting the player in trouble with the Pilot Federation. Think the original System Shock, where SHODAN was able to influence your ability to save the game. In ED, the PF might instead be able to sanction where and how a member of notoriety respawns and with what. My suggestion for an ultimate punishment is still in a scarab with a mining module on a dead rock somewhere as only possession until sentence have been paid off.

S

I see you keep repeating your questions, yet you don't seen to be listening to answers given to you . I stated before that it shouldn't be one shot and blame you go.. accidents happen. IF you seriously shoot someone up, if you constantly ram others these are reasons to get jerked from the mode if they make it. IF you have someone who is griefing you can usually tell by the pattern of what they do. Look at Mobius.. it has been operating for a while.. how many kicked for griefing/PVP 2 to 4..