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Without a true option in the menu for PvE, they might as well just call it ED: PvP and be done with it.
After all, people join Mobius for the sole reason to go baby seal clubbing and no one can stop them. You cannot counter them, the biggest griefers owned up to making new cmdrs and rejoining Mobius.
The only real PvE mode is Solo, as everything else can and will be ruined by people who want to force PvP on others.
So call the modes what they are;
Open PvP,
Groups PvP,
Solo.
This is, Elite PvP.
So what you're saying is that you need victims. I'm sure you understand that most people don't want to play that role.
Others have spoken about the rampant ganking of noobs in open, as well as other players being shot-on-sight that are not part of an opposing Power or any kind or reason like that. "Piracy" muddies its own definition on these forums. That is why people equate pirates with asocial griefing types. That is why they equate open as full of sociopaths.
So these "force" or "Incentivise" open threads get born. No one in solo/groups really cares what open's problems are; they are open's problems. Any attempt to "lure" (as put by one "pirate") people into open by taking things away from solo/group modes or giving out "speshul shinys" just aren't going to be effective, let alone supported. It's not such a difficult point to understand.
You'd do better to think of what the real problems of open are and solutions to those problems (like hisec zones for noobs; like ramped up penalties for murderous thugs).
out of rep so repeating this great post.
Of course it's acceptable, but that's another goalpost as well. Flying in the station upside down and landing that way until your ship explodes is an acceptable play style. It doesn't mean Open is intended for upside suicide runs.The thing is, that while PvP may or may not be the intended play style, in Open it is still a totally acceptable one, in whichever form it happens to take, including non consensual and blatantly un matched. Since there is no mechanism to opt out of a type of PvP that someone might wish to engage in (for example, a player wants to be interdicted and robbed by a pirate, but not blown out of space for no apparent reason), then an Open/PvE mode would very likely attract a great many players.
That may be why it was so vigorously opposed by a few from the Open only camp.
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Well, you weren't really the type of PvP advocate I was referring to.
I actually believe that piracy is badly served by the 'anything goes' ethos of Open, because a player who wants to role play being a trader who gets pirated would (I imagine) be quite happy to play in an Open environment where they could not be destroyed for no reason. And while piracy is for sure PvP, it's not strictly speaking combat.
How such role play could be incorporated into an Open/PvE mode I'm not sure, and of course, the natural predator to the pirate, the bounty hunter would not work there either. It's a tricky one, but the idea of a properly advertised PvE mode is not unreasonable, and in the long term shouldn't make that much difference to Open, as someone who jumps in and has a bad experience probably doesn't stay there long anyway.
If piracy were governed, it would not be piracy, it would be the IRS. No one would want to be a pirate who has a strict set of guidelines to obey, except that they be created by the pirates themselves. On the high seas surely not every pirate ship was Captain Jack Sparrow. There were plenty who would probably pilfer and pillage and pilfer (you said pilfer twice).
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Putting it frankly I see your point. However I think we can all agree "OPEN" is an anything goes mode. If flying into stations upside down, and perfecting upside down landing, (or crashing) is your thing, Heh go for it! Heck there isn't anything special about that, you can attempt that in any mode. However attacking anyone else in solo, well, you can try, lol.
You know I play a ton of PVP games, but the thing I have a hard time understanding is exactly why one player feels the right to compel other players to be there targets? Or there prey. Yea I get the ole pirate analogy, how can pirates be pirates if there are no other easy players to pirate, oh an it's for the good of the game etc. Now to be honest, I have pirated quite a bit actually. But in my ole EvE days, I liked to pirate, pirates. Yea bad me. I actually felt sorry for many, heck after hot dropping a few hundred fleet ships on a half a dozen or so, it's actually pretty sad to see at times, some times I would buy them all new ships. Made me feel a little better about it.
Members of "Hydra" you were awesome, loved to spar with you guys. (IE Hydra were pretty damn good, and honorable pirates. Living in outlaw space being very excellent outlaws)
I feel if you give open some time it will self regulate, sooner or later. Or much later, probably take a bit for the fluffy ones to get bored.
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There is no need to call Open mode "PvP Open" as there is no "PvE Open". Open Mode is a open world PvP mode. You can do a lot of PvE activities in Open Mode, but there is always the possibility of PvP. PvP is what makes the Open Mode what it is. PvP is needed for piracy, PvP is needed for player bounty hunting, PvP is needed for that sense of danger when seeing an other CMDR behind you in super cruise…
Open Mode was designed around PvP, with PvP as the defining aspect of the mode, with PvP affecting every single activity in Open mode, with PvP being unavoidable. Open mode is a PvP environment.
It wasn't designed for players who just want to attack other players and nothing more, but the game does nothing to prevent that.
I guess you like pilfer.
Maybe we should get you some pirate badges - though I can guess what you'd say about that.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I am not saying this has not happened, indeed a small number of players on here openly brag about it, however I think you are over egging the number to prats who do actually do this. I must admit I play almost fully in Mobius now, when my internet is capable - and have found every single person to be respectful of the rules in there.
I must admit i think it should be fixed to be able to ACCOUNT ban a player from a private group rather than a CMDR name... after all it is a private group and the moderator should have the tools to keep those (s)he wants out.
I dread the day mobius moves on however. I suppose that is the day i make my own private group and only allow my meat space friends in. which would be a shame.
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You're making the people you're criticising look better than you by saying things like that.
Way OTT.
You're making the people you're criticising look better than you by saying things like that.
Way OTT.
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IMO Julissa Silver was correct; as to the manner of the post? It's the Cmdrs. opinion and no names were mentioned.
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The problem is, that Open mode is "FFA PVP 24/7". FD made the decision to design Open mode that way. If I like it or not doesn't change anything about it - btw: I don't like it.
FD might have hoped that PvP would be rare and meaningful, but they failed to design the game that way.
We might use different definitions of PvP and how PvP affects a game - for me the chance of PvP influences the whole game and isn't only the direct "pew pew". PvP starts with the load out of the ship, with the decision where to go and what places to stay away from. PvP is looking at the scanner all the time to see if a CMDR is in a position where he/she could interdict. Shooting at a player is only the final step in a long road of PvP related decisions and actions.
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That's what Open mode is by design: an open world PvP mode. That's how FD designed the game. The players you describe are responsible for their action, but they have the right to do what they do because FD designed the game the way they designed it. In the end FD is responsible for what is happening in Open Mode. They designed the game, they made the rules, they change nothing.
For me that's an indication that Open mode is the way FD intended it to be. It doesn't matter if I like it nor not.
The problem is, that Open mode is "FFA PVP 24/7". FD made the decision to design Open mode that way. If I like it or not doesn't change anything about it - btw: I don't like it.
FD might have hoped that PvP would be rare and meaningful, but they failed to design the game that way.
We might use different definitions of PvP and how PvP affects a game - for me the chance of PvP influences the whole game and isn't only the direct "pew pew". PvP starts with the load out of the ship, with the decision where to go and what places to stay away from. PvP is looking at the scanner all the time to see if a CMDR is in a position where he/she could interdict. Shooting at a player is only the final step in a long road of PvP related decisions and actions.
<snip>
That's what Open mode is by design: an open world PvP mode. That's how FD designed the game. The players you describe are responsible for their action, but they have the right to do what they do because FD designed the game the way they designed it. In the end FD is responsible for what is happening in Open Mode. They designed the game, they made the rules, they change nothing.
For me that's an indication that Open mode is the way FD intended it to be. It doesn't matter if I like it nor not.
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The only difference between the modes is matchmaking. Open mode wasn't "designed around PvP", open mode and group mode allow PvP. That's it, no special designs, no special defining aspects. The players make Open a PvP environment, not the design of the game.
According to FD, PvP should be "rare and meaningful" , if we use your description of open, then playing in open should be "rare and meaningful".
So, everyone should play in Solo, except when they want "rare and meaningful" PvP.
It's the design of the game that allows PvP. It's the game that puts no restrictions on the players where they can attack other players. It's the game that offers no opt in or opt out for PvP. It's the game that allows players to attack other players for no reason anytime they want to attack an other player.
The players simply play the game the way the game is designed.
In group mode the group admin can kick players that don't follow the group rules. PvP can't be prevented, that's true, but it can be managed. It's not much, but it's more than in Open mode.
I don't like the way it is, but that's the way it is.
As usual Cmdr Z, all Those hardcore PvP addicts ruin any Multiplayer game for any other type multiplayer and soon ruin the game for themselves as well... Nothing new happening, if those folks get what they want.
I'm thankful in E
with its modes, there are groups which allow an Open player to enjoy Open differently.
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As usual Cmdr Z, all Those hardcore PvP addicts ruin any Multiplayer game for any other type multiplayer and soon ruin the game for themselves as well... Nothing new happening, if you folks get this as what you want.
I'm thankful in E
The thing is, it's not the "hardcore PvP" players that ruin the game, it's the developer who designed a game that allows this type of game play. It's the hope that players would be nice enough to use PvP only in "rare and meaningful" situations, it's the illusion that players would police themselves, it't the illusion of "emergent gameplay" filling content holes.
Like you I'm happy that I can switch between Solo and other modes whenever I want and I play most of the time in Solo mode. I like PvP games, but FD made almost all PvP game design mistakes I can imagine in Elite Dangerous. And they are making it worse.
This is a reply I've made to a user in another thread, but I feel is very relevant to this thread...
Are you saying that the only way and reason you play Elite: Dangerous is PvP?
If that's the case - I absolutely agree with your right to play the game the way you want, and I don't think anyone else would disagree with that.
I also fully agree that explorers should be prepared for the worst - i.e. for people like you who have absolutely ZERO regard for how anyone else plays the game.
That's why my exploration Cobra has shields, and pretty much the fastest Boost speed possible in that configuration - you'd have a very hard time catching up with me as I Brave Sir Robin out of there whilst you try to wear down my shields and I'm waiting to high-wake away
You may be surprised to read that again - I agree with you in that respect.
And here lies the fundamental problem with the design of the game;
The Exploration role is completely incompatible with the PvP role.
I don't blame you for your attitude. You're a PvP'er - you want "action" against other players, and I can understand that. Believe me I've spent months totally re-considering my attitude to your type of player - initially my thoughts were NOT pretty at all, but I took the time to mull all this over and I can empathise with the PvP mindset completely.
HOWEVER! You're so embedded into PvP gameplay, that I suspect it doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps other players want to play the game in other ways that don't involve Player versus Player (hostile gameplay - PvP), but more Player interacts with Player (non-hostile gameplay - PiwP). Perhaps you might want to do what I did, and sit down and try to empathise with the PiwP types just as I did for PvP types.
The PiwP types want to play in Open too. In fact, if you do a bit of research, FDEV intended Open to be mostly PiwP gameplay, with PvP gameplay to be "rare and meaningfull" - that last bit is an actual quote I believe from David Braben and I'll try to cite that if I can find it again.
This is why you're getting a hostile (heh) reception when you try to define Open as an automatic pure PvP mode. It really isn't. It's simply incorrect to define it as such. It was never intended to be such!
But again, that's mostly not your fault - it's FDEV's. FDEV have not thought this through properly. They've created a single Open mode, intending PvP to be "rare and meaningful", with PiwP to be the main method players encounter each other in Open.
I think that after almost a year after release, it should have become painfully clear - even to FDEV - that this thinking of how they wanted Open to turn out was naive at best, and now a lost cause.
I'll reiterate - the PvP gameplay is incompatible with the PiwP gameplay in Open. It is a game design problem. It's why we get threads like this.
Telling people to go to Solo or Group, is not the solution to the problem.
PiwP types need an Open mode in order to fully achieve the gameplay that they want, just as much as you/PvP types need a fully Open mode to achieve the gameplay you want.
The solution is not as simple as telling all non-PvP types to go frack off into another mode. It needs more thinking through from FDEV.
Are you saying that the only way and reason you play Elite: Dangerous is PvP?
If that's the case - I absolutely agree with your right to play the game the way you want, and I don't think anyone else would disagree with that.
I also fully agree that explorers should be prepared for the worst - i.e. for people like you who have absolutely ZERO regard for how anyone else plays the game.
That's why my exploration Cobra has shields, and pretty much the fastest Boost speed possible in that configuration - you'd have a very hard time catching up with me as I Brave Sir Robin out of there whilst you try to wear down my shields and I'm waiting to high-wake away
You may be surprised to read that again - I agree with you in that respect.
And here lies the fundamental problem with the design of the game;
The Exploration role is completely incompatible with the PvP role.
I don't blame you for your attitude. You're a PvP'er - you want "action" against other players, and I can understand that. Believe me I've spent months totally re-considering my attitude to your type of player - initially my thoughts were NOT pretty at all, but I took the time to mull all this over and I can empathise with the PvP mindset completely.
HOWEVER! You're so embedded into PvP gameplay, that I suspect it doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps other players want to play the game in other ways that don't involve Player versus Player (hostile gameplay - PvP), but more Player interacts with Player (non-hostile gameplay - PiwP). Perhaps you might want to do what I did, and sit down and try to empathise with the PiwP types just as I did for PvP types.
The PiwP types want to play in Open too. In fact, if you do a bit of research, FDEV intended Open to be mostly PiwP gameplay, with PvP gameplay to be "rare and meaningfull" - that last bit is an actual quote I believe from David Braben and I'll try to cite that if I can find it again.
This is why you're getting a hostile (heh) reception when you try to define Open as an automatic pure PvP mode. It really isn't. It's simply incorrect to define it as such. It was never intended to be such!
But again, that's mostly not your fault - it's FDEV's. FDEV have not thought this through properly. They've created a single Open mode, intending PvP to be "rare and meaningful", with PiwP to be the main method players encounter each other in Open.
I think that after almost a year after release, it should have become painfully clear - even to FDEV - that this thinking of how they wanted Open to turn out was naive at best, and now a lost cause.
I'll reiterate - the PvP gameplay is incompatible with the PiwP gameplay in Open. It is a game design problem. It's why we get threads like this.
Telling people to go to Solo or Group, is not the solution to the problem.
PiwP types need an Open mode in order to fully achieve the gameplay that they want, just as much as you/PvP types need a fully Open mode to achieve the gameplay you want.
The solution is not as simple as telling all non-PvP types to go frack off into another mode. It needs more thinking through from FDEV.
I 100% agree with you here.
FD say they want pvp to be "rare and meaningful" but they make piracy only profitable against players, and non lethal player piracy borderline impossible. They also make killing players, really any crime at all, extremely easy and consequence free.
Which ties into my next point, they want the players to police themselves but make it impossible to do so. A player bounty hunter could be one system over to the most notorious pirate in the game and won't know anything. If the pirate does jump to his system the hunter won't know anything since he shows up as clean. How can players police themselves when they have no help finding the bad guys.
FD can say they want whatever they like, if they don't make any effort to get it it's not going to happen.
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Now Jordan...you know why these things are the way they are. Stop fighting against the truth....come to the dark side....the sooner you do, the less stressful your life will be! Zadian, you can come along to! It's really easy. Just learn a single sentence and the truth will be revealed!
I'd agree with you if there wasn't pvp in the game. What explanation is easier to buy? FD want a pve game and added pvp because they don't know how video games work, or they want both but don't know how to balance the two conflicting styles of gameplay. The latter one is incompetence but the former is incompetence to an unheard of level.
It's like saying I want to raise chickens but I'm going to allow wolves free access to the pen. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say, they want to raise both but can't figure out the locking mechanism on the cages.
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