was in a wing the other day.. making over 200k per trip, each time escorts got 9000... and no way to compensate them fairly.
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was in a wing the other day.. making over 200k per trip, each time escorts got 9000... and no way to compensate them fairly.
As much as I love playing ED (currently in it now) - for a game labelled as an "MMO", it is missing a lot of basic "MMO" features
That's because the Group (ahem) Wing mode instead of being tied neatly into the mechanics itself was a later addition to the game- and now also inadvertently become "the" way for PvE players to protect themselves in numbers whilst enjoying PvE content.
What *should* have happened (I know, how *dare* I question the wisdom of the developers... as an "armchair developer") is Wings should have been released as the organizational piece in Open from the beginning- and a proper "guild" (probably not the right word to use, but in lieu of an appropriate one) system as well.
But hey... "working as intended". Apparently the "3 mode" system is the only system. Hmm reminds me of a movie I once saw... "3 Laws Safe..."
I don't think there is an effective way to fix that. The number of people that want to play each role is completely out of whack compared with what would be required for having a functioning virtual society and, while you can fix the rules, you can't "fix" the preference of the players. It's a similar issue to how, in MMOs that employ the trinity, there are so many more players wanting to play DPS than there are players willing to be Healers or Tanks that group play is more a test of patience in waiting for the right specced player to join than a test of skill.
Something could be attempted in changing the efficiency of the different roles, which would change how many of each are required for a properly working virtual society, but that could easily create hard to fix imbalances.
Not what I said, or meant, at all. Everyone is free to offer critique and advice. But, if someone wants his advice to be heeded or, more important, to be useful, he should at least try to truly understand the topic he is talking about, seeking information, looking at how people have previously tackled similar issues, etc.
This is particularly true for the finer points of any topic, and the balance between depth and complexity is very much a finer point of game design, one that eludes many professional game devs even.
The issue with armchair developers — or armchair anything, really — is that humans have a tendency to grossly overestimate how much they know about most topics, coupled with a laziness when it comes to studying, to seeking more information. It's what I meant by "terminally inexperienced"; not that they can't learn, get experience on the topic, but rather that most people playing at armchair developers never even bother seeking more information. And this criticism isn't aimed at anyone in particular, or even at this forum, but rather at humanity as a whole.
It's also the reason why most forms of MMO have a balancing system to counter the human factor- which some consider to be "limiting" in terms of their choices, but oftentimes serves for the purpose of balance for everyone. In this game, a proper "justice" system is missing- instead relying upon player masses to somehow counter threat when Open itself doesn't even have the mechanisms to do so in place.
IMO, if there had been a proper grouping tool and an organizational system (for the purpose of players sharing the same beliefs and goals) incorporated from release- we really wouldn't have as much of a mess as we have now. But hey, "working as intended" is what people will continue to parrot.
How about this:
Fix the mechanics for Bounty Hunting. That way players who want to do the right thing can do the right thing and players who want a legal way to kill other players will have a 'valid' outlet.
Fix the mechanics against murder. That means psychos and "pirates" will feel more heat for their actions and will likely get annoyed. I personally don't see this as a huge problem because too much of this isn't great for the game (just my opinion). These can either persist facing the repercussions for their crimes or if all they're really looking for is killing other players, perhaps move to the Bounty Hunter category.
Fix the mechanics for Piracy. I haven't really looked into this too much, but I can't imagine that true piracy (even if it ends in murder - I don't have a problem with that) doesn't pay all that well. These guys are going to face much of the same added heat as the psychos/"pirates" so they need to be profitable to balance that.
Fix the mechanics for Trade. Not the actual trading itself. But NPC wings, cargo insurance, etc would be nice. This means traders will feel a little safer or at least won't lose hours/days of effort for being victims so they won't run away from Open... hopefully.
Explorers... just stay away from people I guess. But isn't that what they do anyway?
Players who reject any semblance of mechanics or role play or even empathy and are just looking for the *pew* *pew*.... for goodness sake, just turn to sport... start supporting CQC.
Not sure how much sense that made. It's late and I should be in bed.
As you seem fond of saying this, I will point out that "Mode Switching" is what that has always been in reference to in this topic - and yes it is "Working as intended".
It is other game mechanics built on top that need looking at.
For example, if someone wants to go around killing harmless players, explorers coming home or unarmed traders - perhaps the crime system should be able to stop that person hiding in Solo.
The criminal element saying they want buffs to their game play ignore that bounty hunters need targets as well.
So perhaps any PvP interaction should lock out mode switching (for the duration of the "Wanted" timer)? Or while not in Open Mode, timers for bounties from PvP should not tick down at all?
(at least until the bounty hunters have had a fair crack at collecting anyway).
But for law abiding citizens, mode switching is working as it should do, so I'll say again - it's not the switching that needs fixing it's the systems built on top of it
(also, other things need fixing, but this is not the thread for that)
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I don't think the player base could counter the threat itself even with the proper tools. Like I said, the proportion of players in each role is way out of whack compared with what would be required for a working society.
Having NPCs step up and take those roles is a way to solve the issue, yeah. But that requires players to accept that much of their interactions are going to be PvE ones rather than PvP, and particularly so when the role they interact with isn't a popular one.
Better tools for organizing players would have been welcome (and better tools for managing groups are direly needed), but I truly doubt they would have solved the issues. Too many players don't care about organized groups; the lone wolf role is simply too popular for anything that requires most players to organize themselves to work.
I'm part of that. I don't have anything against joining a more permanent group — but only as long as I don't feel that joining a group is needed, or even strongly encouraged. Besides, the first time anyone in that group demands something from me, I will immediately put that person on ignore and (if that person actually has a say in the group) leave the group; no one tells me how I play a game.
Nonya
Banned
Methinks you don't understand that there are other pirate player groups out there besides Code?
If it's Code you'll know it. a) The announcements - unless you've foolishly blocked comms from the player doing the interdicting in which case it looks like you're running/not talking and is a killable offense for not complying and b) there's always at least one Code pirate in the wing that's streaming or recording for posting to YouTube later on in which case you can "examine the evidence".
There are other non-pirate groups out there temp pirating as well during CGs to "stop" another faction in the CG. Or in PP. Or whatever.
But remember, throwing other players willy-nilly onto a blocklist can get you killed quick if they try to pirate you and you don't see what they're saying.
If I pull a trader over and they don't respond to my simple demands due to my being on their personal blocklist then they're probably going to wind up looking at a rebuy screen but it will seem to them that I just killed them "for no reason" because they'll forget the block they put on me.
It's happened before. It will probably happen again.
Remember that before you go blocking pirate players in-game.
Not so easy, if you are talking about PvP bounty hunting. Due to instancing, mode swapping, and just plain real life (i.e. there's no guarantee hunter and target will even be playing at the same time), I cannot see how FD can make PvP bounty hunting work. Even if they had an up to date, constantly refreshing bounty board that only showed targets who are online and in Open, there's no guarantee that hunter and target would be in the same instance.
I obviously cannot speak for others, but as someone who does a lot of BB missions, I already find it frustrating on occasions that I arrive in the system where my NPC target is supposed to be, and then have to fly around aimlessly scanning everything in sight for any significant amount of time. How much worse to be hunting for a real target, who may or may not be in your instance, may or may not be in SC, may or may not be docked at a station, and may or may not even be wanted in the system where you are actually looking. Not compelling game play to my mind.
Well, a major faction wide persistent bounty for killing a clean player might go some way towards doing this. FD would have to be careful implementing it, as it would (or at least could) effectively kill the game for the target, so it would have to be bullet proof, and more importantly exploit proof.
The only way to effectively fix piracy would be to make NPCs worth pirating. I'm sure there are some players who enjoy an encounter with a pirate, but i truly doubt they'd enjoy it every time they played. Add to that the hardening of punishments for clean player killers, and the pirate is severely disadvantaged, unless they are happy to endure said harsh punishment, as a player can just decline to drop cargo, and the pirate has no alternative but to kill a clean player.
NPC wings and perhaps cargo insurance would be good additions to the game indeed, and if you are talking about explorers, then having exploration data recoverable in the case of being killed on the way back to civilization may work. However, where does FD draw the line with these types of insurance? Do you have to be killed by a player, or if you are destroyed by an NPC would that count too? Those are questions that would need to be answered first I suspect.
I don't have much of an opinion about Open/Solo/PVE/PVP. However, I wanted to share something that happened to me a couple of days ago. I usually played in Solo as I started off as an explorer and didn't think there was any reason to be in Open when I'm 7000ly out. Now, recently I got bored of exploring and have been trying to up my combat rank. So, I was playing in Open because why not (I almost never see other players even in heavily trafficked systems). So I'm in a RES getting into a groove scanning and shooting wanted ships. I'm trying real hard not to shoot any clean ships and get the stupid 200 Cr fine. I see a ship nearby, scan it, it says "wanted". Cool, I blast him out of the sky with my pulse lasers. I get a 200Cr bounty. Uhoh. I forgot to check the name and it definitely had CMDR in front of it. I had just killed my first player. Don't even remember their name.
I do. I just can't name any without doing any research. Sorry for picking specifically on The Code. It was more out of mental convenience than anything else.
Be happy you have a reputation.
That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. Surely, a bounty hunter isn't going to just sit around hoping to be interdicted by their prey. But if I actually wanted to proactively search out a particular group (I used The Code as an example), how would I know who they are associated with? I don't. Not unless people start down that really annoying path of having clan tags in their names. Look! There's Cmdr Nonya
Code:
.
Individuals would be easier (slightly) because at least you see their name.
EDIT: Actually, I guess someone going after a group rather than an individual with a bounty wouldn't technically be a Bounty Hunter. Not really relevant to the point though.
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I agree. But I didn't say it was going to be easy.. or that bounty hunting in itself should be easy. I'm sure those who engage more in bounty hunting would have some great suggestions. I think improved visibility of high-value targets would be helpful. By 'visibility' I mean 'knowing that they're there'.
We can all see a pilot's name in SC. Presumably, the NPCs can too. Use your imagination a little and think about how this would (or could) play out. I'm thinking you would have things like:
Joe Trader - "Whoa! Isn't that Cmdr ReallyNasty we saw on the news last night?!"
Authority - "We've had sightings of Cmdr ReallyNasty near Last Resort Outpost. Calling all available vessels to that location."
Maybe you could purchase a police scanner style device?
Bounties are one thing. But I'd actually like to see a ramped up AI response. Following on from above, the worse a person gets, the more they are likely to be 'noticed'. Get really bad and certain factions might even start sending their own hunting parties to track you down. NPCs manage to track me down all the time when I'm flying missions. Surely they wouldn't have any problems finding a murderer.
A reputation system would be handy.
Yes. There is the argument that this would 'kill the game for the target'. My thoughts on this:
- If you're going to take on a violent profession, it should require skill and effort. It shouldn't be easy.
- There should be (and are) regions of the galaxy that are considered lawless and dangerous. These areas would be somewhat of a safety zone for troublemakers.
- In my opinion, wanton murder - while apparently fun for some - is overall a detriment to the game.
On the NPC thing, I don't see that as a problem. In a perfect world, wouldn't it be almost impossible to tell the PCs from the NPCs? On the other... do the crime, do the time? But yes, piracy needs to pay somehow or it wouldn't make sense.
Not sure why it would have to be different than the current ship insurance. But there are lots of things that would need to be worked out with all of this stuff.
actually i don't think that it is broken IN THEIR OPINION. here is a clip that will start at the point in the interview where he begins to address how the griefers will be dealt with by other players.
i don't agree that this will take care of the griefer problem, people are just not going to go for the bounty hunting enough to discourage the psycho killers.
however, from the way he looks when he is talking about it, he is going to stick with the idea that eventually players will take care of the problem themselves. and with that frame of mind it is the player attitude that needs to change, not the game.
<link to video skipping to the part where this is discussed>
Problem is they are expecting a bunch of people who like to PVP to play good guys against those who like to play bad guys, yet they did not account for the extreme lopsidedness of this idea.
I have to disagree here.
The player attitude cannot change unless something is done to prevent criminals hiding in Groups / Solo.
I've spent loads of time watching MercenaryThorrn and thinking I'd like to try player bounty hunting - then I realized one day, the bounty board is a joke and does not list who is online/offline, so you could spend hours looking for someone who is offline. Plus no real way to track someone.
And then, a comment was made on the forums regarding someone from the bounty board hiding away from open mode as they didn't want anyone to collect their bounty (I think they were spotted in the Mobius Group) - right there and then, my dreams of being a real bounty hunter went right out of the window.
Tried being an explorer, got as far as Thors Eye some 4,000 from Sol.... I was board to tears.
Tried NPC piracy, but T9s carrying 5T of scrap made it pointless.
So I made my peace with being a trader and NPC bounty hunter. And that is what I've done since January.
There is no point trying to combat the player killers / criminals properly until the above is fixed.
If you go just from that interview, if Frontier thinks griefing is a serious enough issue in Open they would be willing to add police forces as strong as needed to tackle the problem and, if Griefing is still an issue even then, implement "griefer's hell", where griefers will only be matched with other griefers and the rest of the player base will be free of them.
Meh..they either move on, move out, or go to private. Mission accomplished!
Oh...and your opinion is invalid!
They could...but they are going let the full justice system do its job before they do this. The Private modes are part of the justice system! How's that for some new thoughts. If the play in Open gets toxic...people leave...and there are fewer targets for people to be toxic with.
Once things calm down..people start testing the waters of Open..then the population cycles back to where it was before they left. For the most part...those that leave Open...can take it or leave it...and will as the mood fits...if things are quiet in open they will stay longer... if things are busy...they might not even enter.
The devs have metrics that will tell them how many are in and out of Open and I would expect some measure of crime and the responses of the punishment. Which are much more objective than the foibles of people reporting and recording their actions within the forums, Reddit, and YouTube.
So, when the numbers are not where the devs are desiring them to be...there will be changes up or down the scale to the justice system...currently...they were looking for ideas on how to make the justice system 'better'...but with the release schedule I would not expect any huge changes until after the new Season is well under way.
Until then, Dave1235 has some interesting ideas on how to fight crime in the galaxy!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182525&p=2810511&viewfull=1#post2810511
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