Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[askavir]

Fair enough, I accept that some people are weird. I know someone who camped out for 4 days to get a ps3 when it launched.

I camped in the middle of my country capital for 4 days, to get in line for the last 100 tickets for the most anticipated football (or soccer if you're from US) match of the season, between the country top rival teams.

The night before the ticket stand would finally open, it started to rain hard, and I was in the queue all night with all the other people, dripping in water, sleepy and with tired legs.

Came the dawn, 30 minutes before the ticket stand opened, there came the griefers oops I mean the hooligans , chaos installed, police batons, etc.

I went back home... without any ticket Went to bed, overslep and missed the match on TV. Anyway my team lost.

I'm surely not proud of it, would never do it today (was just 20 at the time), but it taught me a lesson: most things are just not worth the effort. Save your strenght and commitment for the few ones who do.

ps: yes, people sometimes do very weird things.

 

[askavir]

Most of my friends think I'm weird because I play a computer game...

Yeah, some of mine too. "Why do you waste so much time playing games, why don't you do stuff in real life"

But honestly I don't care. Most of them have a very frivolous concept of "real life".

I do the things I enjoy doing, ride my motorcycle on long trips alone or with friends, watch some tv shows and movies, have a walk and play with my dogs, play a few PC games for lots of time. And I sure as hell do not feel like I'm wasting time. What isn't "wasting time" anyway? Going shopping? Random uninteresting chitchat at some random bar? Doing "socially accepted" frivolous things because of "social acceptance"?

I'm too old to give a fart about what people think of the way I choose to spend my time

As long as you are enjoying yourself its all that actually matters. And for what I've been observing all my life, most of the "get a real life" people spend their days doing stuff that they don't really want to do, just because they are "supposed" to be doing it. Life's too short for doing stuff you don't want to.


Anyway, sorry for the OT guys, just rambling.

 

[Khelder]

... why don't you do stuff in real life

Because nobody has managed to build a Cobra for me to fly yet.

 

[Sylveria]

Yeah, some of mine too. "Why do you waste so much time playing games, why don't you do stuff in real life"

But honestly I don't care. Most of them have a very frivolous concept of "real life".

I do the things I enjoy doing, ride my motorcycle on long trips alone or with friends, watch some tv shows and movies, have a walk and play with my dogs, play a few PC games for lots of time. And I sure as hell do not feel like I'm wasting time. What isn't "wasting time" anyway? Going shopping? Random uninteresting chitchat at some random bar? Doing "socially accepted" frivolous things because of "social acceptance"?

I'm too old to give a fart about what people think of the way I choose to spend my time

As long as you are enjoying yourself its all that actually matters. And for what I've been observing all my life, most of the "get a real life" people spend their days doing stuff that they don't really want to do, just because they are "supposed" to be doing it. Life's too short for doing stuff you don't want to.


Anyway, sorry for the OT guys, just rambling.

I always have to laugh when people say things like "wasting time playing video games"- because it's a rather poor judgmental assessment of someone's life.

A lot of the stigma surrounding this is due to stereotyping which has gone on for decades starting with the "loner" stereotype... you know, the one who in high school plays D&D and sits in the back of the room all the time, etc.

Over time, the technology has advanced, people have become much more integrated with it, and it's also caused a social divide in many cases, too. That said, it's the same argument as "gun control", which is- it's not about the inanimate object, it's about the person using the inanimate object. Just as using a hammer doesn't instantly make you a carpenter, or using a computer doesn't make you an IT genius, shooting a gun doesn't make you an instant badass, either.

The most frustrating thing about both situations, is that you cannot "control" human beings, and they're unpredictable as life itself. The tendency psychologically for people to be passive aggressive in video games is actually pretty high because of the anonymity factor- and with this game it's complicated by the missing consequence system for those who choose to take advantage of this as well. Again, we come back to the "when people realize there are no consequences for their actions, chaos ensues." debate. The best thing for any game developer to do (IMO) is simply limit the possibility of such exploits from happening in order to satisfy the majority of people, else you cause a serious issue later with not being able to regain control of the situation.

It's much easier to start with saying "no" first, then say "yes" later- than it is to say no later after you've already started with yes.

Regarding the "armchair psychological assessments" and judgment, something to keep in mind is that "the person you are" is the person you demonstrate yourself to be- period. In or out of game- IRL or not.

People can't see inside your heart to know who you are through a computer monitor over an internet connection, so if you want to be known a certain way start with your actions.

 

[Jockey79]

My original use of 'victim' was purely to identify someone who has had a crime committed against them.

This definition: a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
Not this definition: a person who has come to feel helpless and passive in the face of misfortune or ill-treatment.

When I was a serving constable (retired last year), the constabulary I worked for frowned upon anyone using the word "victim" as it has negative connotations.
All paper work was update and they replaced "victim" with the more politically correct "Injured Party", and we all had retraining to teach us to use that or I.P. for short (for use on the radios).

Out of habit my own mind replaced your use of "victim" with "I.P." - and I never even thought about it!

Fair enough, I accept that some people are weird. I know someone who camped out for 4 days to get a ps3 when it launched.

Not sure if you are U.K. but locally when the Kinect launched, our Game store opened at midnight to sell it on a first come basis.
When the news broke that was the case, my wife and I were taking the mick big time, going "what sort of no life, sad person will queue all night for that?"

She left our house at 02:00Hrs and came back with one (to my surprise)..... when she walked in the house with it, I just looked and said "Well, that answers that question".
She did answer me back, but I'll get banned for typing that on the forums
(and no, I didn't sleep on the couch either. lol)

 

[Jukelo]

There's nothing to pirate from an explorer....

If you mean is there anything material to steal from an explorer, no of course not, not yet at least until FD add some way of syphoning off exploration data.
However you can rob them of their tears, and that is very valuable for any pirate worth their salt.

 

[Sylveria]

If you mean is there anything material to steal from an explorer, no of course not, not yet at least until FD add some way of syphoning off exploration data.
However you can rob them of their tears, and that is very valuable for any pirate worth their salt.

^ Case in point.

 

[ianw]

If you mean is there anything material to steal from an explorer, no of course not, not yet at least until FD add some way of syphoning off exploration data.
However you can rob them of their tears, and that is very valuable for any pirate worth their salt.

^ Case in point.

It doesn't take long does it - they just can't help themselves it seems.

 

[DarkWalker]

If you mean is there anything material to steal from an explorer, no of course not, not yet at least until FD add some way of syphoning off exploration data.
However you can rob them of their tears, and that is very valuable for any pirate worth their salt.

So, doing an action that won't gain you anything for the sole purpose of causing distress to the other player. I believe this is a perfectly match for one of the words that need to be handled with great care in the forums...

 

[Roybe]

Fair enough - thanks for clarifying - tone from text can be ambiguous.

It is interesting that players would now seem to be interchangeable with NPCs as mission targets - that's quite a change (although I do wonder how the game determines whether a player is a trader, pirate, etc., given that we do not have fixed roles....).

As you say, the attacked player can never know the truth and can only wonder - they do know, however, whether the interaction was "fun" - and may change their play-style / mode accordingly.

And that is ok. I am assuming the game is either looking at the ship configuration..or your elite status...

 

[Roybe]

I have to ask, what was meant by this? Time and time again I have seen people talking of playing solo or Mobius who are satisfied and fulfilled, so where are you getting the idea that PVErs aren't?

If it is because some of us are pushing for a Open-PVE mode alongside the Open-PVP one, than you are not understanding why we are pushing for it. FDev should be the ones moderating the modes, not players like Mobius.

I agree with this sentiment, I am certain there are many people that are happy with Private...and they can enjoy themselves with no problem. I also think there is a small amount of people that agree with us. However, the overriding issue for most PVE players is that they are unhappy they cannot socialize in safety....and desire to do so.

If they really wanted to 'fix' the PVE mode issue..they could limit personal group sizes. However, I see the devs more about 'not limiting choices' than limiting them.


Without a PVE mode, they have to play in Open...a less than perfect proposition. The game design creates a system, whereby people's desires create a pressure within them to go to Open.

 

[Roybe]

you were not clean though, you had a bounty. could that be why the game decided you were ok for destruction?

have you seen a CMDR show up as a mission target who was not a criminal? (I am not saying it wont, but I have certainly never seen it)

however IF you are correct however and clean players are showing up as mission targets for "murder missions" and if it is not a bug, then I am 100% done with open aside from when i am playing with mates who only play in that mode.

Thank goodness for mode switching, because with the law and order being as it is, for all intents and purposes every system is anarchy and that is not the game which was advertised from FD imo.

but as it stands there is a mode which is, so it is not the end of the world for me. (and the wheel goes around again)

I am assuming that my status of trader was what the game marked me for...since the player did not have any other mission but kill traders.

I have not had the opportunity to verify everything about this situation...and certainly would like for people to help figure out all the permutations of what makes players 'mission targets' specifically.

For those that would say 'PP choice could make this happen'..PP has it's own designation-'Enemy' not 'Mission Target'.

As for my 'Wanted' status causing this...it clearly is already shown as another 'target reason' within the screenie....so the 'Mission Target', apparently, means something different.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If they really wanted to 'fix' the PVE mode issue..they could limit personal group sizes. However, I see the devs more about 'not limiting choices' than limiting them.


Without a PVE mode, they have to play in Open...a less than perfect proposition. The game design creates a system, whereby people's desires create a pressure within them to go to Open.

The other way to "fix" the PvE mode issue would be to create a sister-mode to Open except make it PvE only....

Artificially restricting the size of Private Groups at this late stage would be unlikely to be well received.

As to desires, the PvP players have what they want - a multi-player mode with PvP enabled and it's the only open-access mode in the game so PvE players are drawn to it. PvE players do not have an open-access mode where PvP is disabled.

 

[Roybe]

The other way to "fix" the PvE mode issue would be to create a sister-mode to Open except make it PvE only....

Artificially restricting the size of Private Groups at this late stage would be unlikely to be well received.

As to desires, the PvP players have what they want - a multi-player mode with PvP enabled and it's the only open-access mode in the game so PvE players are drawn to it. PvE players do not have an open-access mode where PvP is disabled.

Although I agree with this...I really think the devs will never go this route. I would be pleasantly surprised if they did. I AM curious about the XBone release...as FDev has removed Private groups and wings from the XBone version, currently.

As we all know...the devs will make the decisions they want about these base ideas...without care for 'reception'.

And this is the basis of my point. There must be a reason for this. Why would any developer leave out something so basic? It has to be a conscious choice...and if so how does it work to the games favor?

It seems to bring people from both PVE and PVP together based on each players desires within the game. PVP to shoot each other in the face...PVE to be in a MMO/social area. The tension between these is the actual draw (and those that know their own limitations, can avoid the tension, at a cost).

- - - Updated - - -

Whew...you guys make me work sometimes!

;P

 

[Mole HD]

I'm following this thread with interest since on the Xbox, we don't have the facility for private group mode. I'm only hoping FD don't force the Xbox players who prefer the interaction of open but despise the PvP crowd forcing their version of ED on the others to go the open mode or nowt.

We can still wing up in game as you can, however, it's far removed from the coop experience I sought from ED initially...

Should the option be returned to the menu on the poor 'Red headed stepchild' xbox version, I would love to see a Mobius type cross platform group, albeit, although we play in the same BGS as the PC/MAC players, we'll never have true cross platform interaction.

 

[Mouse]

I hear so much about combat logging and griefing in the game that it seems like you can't fart without somebody trying to interdict you or shove their brightly colored pulse laser up my tight, little, startwinder behind.

I wanna enjoy the game but if I keep getting killed right out of the station then should I just play solo?

I just finished the tutorials. I don't wanna hate the game because I'm so new I suck at everything and people keeps of killing the new guy out the door.

anybody?

Could always join Mobius PVE only 12000 and growing.

 

[Cody]

Whew...you guys make me work sometimes!

<chortles> Keep it up... you're doing fine!

 

[Mouse]

If you mean is there anything material to steal from an explorer, no of course not, not yet at least until FD add some way of syphoning off exploration data.
However you can rob them of their tears, and that is very valuable for any pirate worth their salt.

That is why I enjoy being in Mobius.. because someone wanting to do what you described is not a pirate worth their salt, but clearly meaning to cause others grief in their game play.. aka griefing. Saying such a thing as a Pirate not worth their salt clearly shows that you have no idea what a pirate is and are using the mantle as an excuse for rather bullying behavior. And in Mobius I can just ignore you and continue on. Such childish behavior as you describe should be left behind.

 

[Roybe]

I'm following this thread with interest since on the Xbox, we don't have the facility for private group mode. I'm only hoping FD don't force the Xbox players who prefer the interaction of open but despise the PvP crowd forcing their version of ED on the others to go the open mode or nowt.

Should the option be returned to the menu on the poor 'Red headed stepchild' xbox version, I would love to see a Mobius type cross platform group, albeit, although we play in the same BGS as the PC/MAC players, we'll never have true cross platform interaction.

Mole! I think it was your posts on this that caught my attention. So many questions!

Have they actually stated they would not put group mode back in?

Is this a limitation, somehow, that Microsoft has created?

It seems there is no reason NOT to have group mode...as it shouldn't require substantial differences in resources..what was FDevs reasoning for limiting it in the console?

Was it in the console version to start with..and removed...or was it left out from the start?

 

[Mole HD]

Mole! I think it was your posts on this that caught my attention. So many questions!

Have they actually stated they would not put group mode back in?

Is this a limitation, somehow, that Microsoft has created?

It seems there is no reason NOT to have group mode...as it shouldn't require substantial differences in resources..what was FDevs reasoning for limiting it in the console?

Was it in the console version to start with..and removed...or was it left out from the start?

I did just reply to this but the forum software crashed due to overload, lol.

On the first pre release beta the private group option was included in the main menu but greyed out. After one of the recent updates, the option was removed but no explaination was offered for it's removal.

I honestly can't see Micro$oft forcing the issue as their flagship Xbox live depends on player participation at it's core. Maybe FD decided that us childlike console gamers weren't adult enough to prefer coop play as opposed to chucking insults and hardware at eachother like chimps... I've no idea. All I know is there's an outcry over in our corner of this forum over the very same issues as here... but we're a mode short in the menu to start with.
Practically all multiplayer games on the Xbox have the facility for group participation and directly launched from Party chat with your friends... so the group part isn't an issue as far as I can see.

FD have really shoved the CQC mode at us however. We even have to put up with a big red notice in the ranking screen in the cockpit under Combat/Trade/Explorer that reads CQC Ranking: Mostly Harmless... 0%

If that ain't just the biggest immersion breaker staring you in the face every day.. I'd share some screenshots but as ED is still pre release software on the Xbox until Oct 6th, we can't save or share game clips or screenshots without much faffing about...