Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jockey79]

The thing is what they have said over time in numerous verbal statements and dev posts has often seemed at odds with other published stuff early on and previous statements and posts.

The thing is though, that happens for everything not just games.

As goals get completed or missed, time constraints kick in, technology marches on - there are things that people want at the start that just become near impossible to do later on once other systems are in place. So plans change and people get upset.

I think this is where open development of computer software is a bad idea.
Some people just do not like to wait and others think they know better than those developing the product.
Of course that leaves us with the third incarnation of a circular topic where people argue over quotes and "intent".

 

[DarkWalker]

IMO the devs did not do this. The devs created a game where a group creator could set up whatever rules they wished to have in their group. Group creator can make rules saying 'no PVP', 'PVP only if certain criteria are met' or 'total PVP.' Frontier left it up to the group creator to decide how they wanted their group to play. This is not against the design of the game but rather totally in line with the game design.

I wouldn't exactly call group lock and boot functions, a system where players can make specific rules. Those are two very basic functions in most multiplayer games. Now if pve only was an option on group creation, you'd have a point.

Actually, back in the DDR Frontier's proposal for groups included an option to automatically ban from the group any player that incurred a bounty by attacking another group member, so the intent was to allow players to make a PvE group in the same spirit as Mobius. Unfortunately, as with many other DDR proposals, it was never implemented.

 

[Cody]

I think this is where open development of computer software is a bad idea.

<nods sagely - listens to Tubular Bells> Two slightly distorted guitars!

 

[Lestenio]

Wow really? Open is already empty... If Elite Dangerous do It, much players will STOP the game, and i'll too.
I think the game actually need ONLY open and delete the solo/private.

So, open is empty and you want to fix it by forcing people who don't want to be there, into it.
Sounds like the easier option there is to just delete open.

 

[DarkWalker]

"We have developed a multiplayer game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all players' behaviour. This is what the game is about."

Yep, it was always meant as a multiplayer game. But forcing players to meet each other was never on their plans. Hence, why they explicitly wanted even players that didn't want to meet anyone else to influence, and be influenced by, the same galaxy simulation.

Or, in other words: the core multiplayer aspect of the game is the single galaxy simulation. All other player contact is optional, as has been stated by the devs, in different ways, since the very beginning of the Kickstart.

 

[Dogoncrook]

Can I ask what the hell the original context was, as it might help me work out why there is such a storm over what was said during the Kickstarter period. I try to follow this thread, but due to work and the World Premier of Roger Water's The Wall, I seem to have completely missed a big talking point.

I can generally categorise the posters in the threadnoughts to which side of the fence they on, but for the life of me I can't work you out Dogoncrook.

I said that I felt that originally he intended this to be an online game and that disasters like SIM city could have influenced it. It was pure speculation and probably not even right, which I made clear. This infuriated the hell out of people. To the point they have to prove to me and everyone that my first impression is completely wrong and I shouldn't have had it apparently.

I obviously don't hold that impression anymore but it came up in the context of someone also speculating online was what the developers sort of preferred. Just normal conversational stuff really.

All that was ignored of course, and well, here we are. And now I need a lawyer to comment or God knows what will happen but It's crucial that everyone knows all modes are equal and always have been because the constitution or something.

 

[Belzmort]

Actually, back in the DDR Frontier's proposal for groups included an option to automatically ban from the group any player that incurred a bounty by attacking another group member, so the intent was to allow players to make a PvE group in the same spirit as Mobius. Unfortunately, as with many other DDR proposals, it was never implemented.

I suspect they didn't envision something like Mobius starting and being so successful, so the development time for such a feature for small groups was probably deemed not worth it. Plus, how do differentiate between a deliberate act of aggression and friendly fire, or a ramming accident (also including drunken shenanigans....*walks away whistling innocently*).

 

[Jockey79]

"We have developed a multiplayer game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all players' behaviour. This is what the game is about."

We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.

the solo experience

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/

 

[Dogoncrook]

the solo experience



I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/

Online is the only right way!

Is that what you want lol. Have at it.

 

[Cody]

I suspect they didn't envision something like Mobius starting and being so successful...

I seem to recall that at first there was a limit on group size, which led to lobbying for an increase (I think - my memory ain't perfect).

 

[Belzmort]

I said that I felt that originally he intended this to be an online game and that disasters like SIM city could have influenced it. It was pure speculation and probably not even right, which I made clear. This infuriated the hell out of people. To the point they have to prove to me and everyone that my first impression is completely wrong and I shouldn't have had it apparently.

I obviously don't hold that impression anymore but it came up in the context of someone also speculating online was what the developers sort of preferred. Just normal conversational stuff really.

All that was ignored of course, and well, here we are. And now I need a lawyer to comment or God knows what will happen but It's crucial that everyone knows all modes are equal and always have been because the constitution or something.

The one thing I have learnt from following theses threads from somewhere near the middle of Mark II, is that both sides are fairly entrenched and can be very defensive. I can't really blame some of the posters for that, as they have contributed thousands of posts on the subject and probably jump in too quickly too hard on unsuspecting threadnought virgins.

Now I am biased towards the "leave the three modes alone" side of the fence, and would happily dive into a Open PvE the instant it went live, but I do sometimes think people could lighten up just a tad. Probably why the moderators have to come in once in awhile to cool things down.

 

[DarkWalker]

I suspect they didn't envision something like Mobius starting and being so successful, so the development time for such a feature for small groups was probably deemed not worth it. Plus, how do differentiate between a deliberate act of aggression and friendly fire, or a ramming accident (also including drunken shenanigans....*walks away whistling innocently*).

The "how to differentiate" part is likely among the reasons this was never implemented; Frontier hasn't managed yet to devise a way to differentiate accidents from deliberate attacks, or at least one that couldn't be exploited either to do such acts with impunity or to cause others to unwittingly gain a bounty.

- - - Updated - - -

Online is the only right way!

Is that what you want lol. Have at it.

Online is the only way, since there is no offline mode

That being said, Online includes Open, Solo, and Group modes, all equally valid and supported, all equally right ways to play.

 

[Mole HD]

I am on a tablet so sorry if stating something already covered but I will eat my hat if XB1 does not have private.

When PC was in beta it was in open only. Groups only came in gamma so the Xbox is only having parity with pc and it will be while FD get the matchmaking OK. XB actually has gone 1 better probably because you have to pay to play MP on console which is not for everyone

You'd better start looking for hats and curry sauce... I can assure you Xbox one ED has no private group option. I'm an Xbox player over here on the PC section making a wishlist for my Xbox version

As for pay to play... everyone pays for online gaming in the end. Xbox live costs £40 per year for membership, this includes one free game per month digital download... and usually top titles at that. Plus other fringe benefits. Not a lot considering the amount of time I spend online watching Netflix, browsing the web... or typing this on the forum from my Xbox

 

[Jockey79]

I can assure you Xbox one ED has no private group option.

It's not officially released yet, as Mike was pointing out - PC didn't have it in Beta either.
So you never know. Only 6 more days to find I believe ?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Online is the only right way!

Is that what you want lol. Have at it.

Excellent - we agree on something!

 

[Jockey79]

Online is the only right way!

Is that what you want lol. Have at it.

What I want, is people to stop coming here telling me how I should play the game I paid for, on the computer I paid for out of my money.
The Devs made it quite clear, I can play the game how I want with who I want - it has nothing to do with anyone else.

You like Open best? Great, have at it, enjoy, knock yourself out, break a leg, live long and prosper.
But don't expect everyone to agree with you. And don't try dictating what "experience" I should be having.

Also, here is half an hour of me playing open today doing the Lave end collection for a rares run;

[video=youtube;dIsT-v_oofY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsT-v_oofY[/video]

Please tell me how playing in Open in one of the most notorious areas of space, was better than playing in my private group with real friends who would have flown with me.
I played without any human contact whatsoever, can you tell at what point I was so bored I almost fell asleep (it's when I over shot in SC and missed my drop point - TWICE).

 

[Dogoncrook]

The one thing I have learnt from following theses threads from somewhere near the middle of Mark II, is that both sides are fairly entrenched and can be very defensive. I can't really blame some of the posters for that, as they have contributed thousands of posts on the subject and probably jump in too quickly too hard on unsuspecting threadnought virgins.

Now I am biased towards the "leave the three modes alone" side of the fence, and would happily dive into a Open PvE the instant it went live, but I do sometimes think people could lighten up just a tad. Probably why the moderators have to come in once in awhile to cool things down.

Yeah I play open, but I'm fine with options. I honestly don't care about the issue at all, and I'm frankly pretty ambivalent about the game itself, but when it's not entirely derailed it can be interesting.

 

[Mole HD]

It's not officially released yet, as Mike was pointing out - PC didn't have it in Beta either.
So you never know. Only 6 more days to find I believe ?

Indeed, we wait with bated breath to return, shipless, into the void

 

[Dogoncrook]

What I want, is people to stop coming here telling me how I should play the game I paid for, on the computer I paid for out of my money.
The Devs made it quite clear, I can play the game how I want with who I want - it has nothing to do with anyone else.

You like Open best? Great, have at it, enjoy, knock yourself out, break a leg, live long and prosper.
But don't expect everyone to agree with you. And don't try dictating what "experience" I should be having.

Also, here is half an hour of me playing open today doing the Lave end collection for a rares run;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsT-v_oofY

Please tell me how playing in Open in one of the most notorious areas of space, was better than playing in my private group with real friends who would have flown with me.
I played without any human contact whatsoever, can you tell at what point I was so bored I almost fell asleep (it's when I over shot in SC and missed my drop point - TWICE).

I haven't seen anyone tell you how to play. I'm not going to try and convince you to play another way. I can't speak for everyone but I have a hunch that no one here cares how you play. nobody has dictated anything. The one person that actually popped in to rile everyone up, who was obviously trolling, did a drive by comment saying to ditch solo. You didn't even address that poster. Your just derailing any chance of decent conversation constantly tiliting at this windmill. And at the end of the day, that's the best we can hope for, fd have been completely non responsive to either side on this issue since launch. Nothings changing. There is no point in being so combative. I am not your enemy, this is getting completely ridiculous.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You'd better start looking for hats and curry sauce... I can assure you Xbox one ED has no private group option. I'm an Xbox player over here on the PC section making a wishlist for my Xbox version

As for pay to play... everyone pays for online gaming in the end. Xbox live costs £40 per year for membership, this includes one free game per month digital download... and usually top titles at that. Plus other fringe benefits. Not a lot considering the amount of time I spend online watching Netflix, browsing the web... or typing this on the forum from my Xbox

lol it wouldnt be the 1st time i have (figuratively) eaten my hat... but still, i will stand by my prediction. Xbox will have private online when it launches and if it doesnt, I will happily join your crusade for it

as as for paying for online, that was not meant to be a slight against xbox live, I am now a PC man but have nowt against consoles and gamed soley on a 360 for years. indeed the lack of cheating (presumably) on the XB1 is a HUGE advantage over PC, arguably better than a little eye candy that the pc has over the console.

(but VR..... "we" win on the VR )

fly safe in what ever mode and what ever platform you choose.

PS £21 quid a year for live if you get it from key sights such as cdkeys