Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Mouse]

How on Earth could open play put you in a mental hospital? I don't understand... it is a videogame...

Because something is "just a thing" to you does not mean it is the same for someone else.

Pokemon is just a tv show yet one episode managed to send almost 700 children to the hospital with seizures.

I've sat there and watched my friend's grandfather break down and cry harder than I had seen someone cry before in my life, a paragon of strength reduced to tears. "Saving Private Ryan" is just a movie isn't it.. it wouldn't trigger memories in a combat veteran who lived through the terror of Normandy could it.. it couldn't remind them of what they had been through.

But I'm glad to know it is just a video game and apparently people shouldn't care when someone else explains that they can't do something, I am so glad I've just dreamt the last ten or so years of my life. Glad to know I will wake up, still have my career, my health, my wife, my co-workers, no suffer night sweats or night terrors. To be free of constant pain, to have hands that work fully, and to throw away this cane a and play games as I used to play them.

Sadly I wish it was true.. I would LOVE for it to be "just a game".. but I've learned that many times PVP, for me, triggers associations because i'm fighting another human being and I start to associate and relive certain things, things I have tried to bury. Someone should not know what a bullet looks like in the barrel of their own gun, I can describe in detail.. I've stared at it long enough and I know it is not my fault they died, yet I still carry the guilt and fight for it to not overwhelm me. You want to know why it could put me into a mental hospital, because I do NOT want it to put me in a coffin.

 

[Seonid]

This is from another thread that is in danger of getting merged even though it started on the subject of Horizons and balancing. I thought it a worthy addition to the discussion.

Worthy? When they open up the post with a knowingly false statement?

This game was supposed to have an Offline mode, they didn't go that way so they gave us Solo instead

Solo, Private Group and Open were there from the start, Offline was punted as a "if we can" stretch goal, Solo was not included "instead" of Offline, it was there before Offline. On the bright side, I know I can skip the rest of their post.

 

[Jockey79]

How on Earth could open play put you in a mental hospital? I don't understand... it is a videogame...

People have died due to video games.
There are studies on video game addiction and it's real life effects on the person "suffering".

If you get some spare time, Google all this - it makes for interesting reading.
It also makes you think about your own use of video games and computers in general.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Because something is "just a thing" to you does not mean it is the same for someone else.

Pokemon is just a tv show yet one episode managed to send almost 700 children to the hospital with seizures.

I've sat there and watched my friend's grandfather break down and cry harder than I had seen someone cry before in my life, a paragon of strength reduced to tears. "Saving Private Ryan" is just a movie isn't it.. it wouldn't trigger memories in a combat veteran who lived through the terror of Normandy could it.. it couldn't remind them of what they had been through.

But I'm glad to know it is just a video game and apparently people shouldn't care when someone else explains that they can't do something, I am so glad I've just dreamt the last ten or so years of my life. Glad to know I will wake up, still have my career, my health, my wife, my co-workers, no suffer night sweats or night terrors. To be free of constant pain, to have hands that work fully, and to throw away this cane a and play games as I used to play them.

Sadly I wish it was true.. I would LOVE for it to be "just a game".. but I've learned that many times PVP, for me, triggers associations because i'm fighting another human being and I start to associate and relive certain things, things I have tried to bury. Someone should not know what a bullet looks like in the barrel of their own gun, I can describe in detail.. I've stared at it long enough and I know it is not my fault they died, yet I still carry the guilt and fight for it to not overwhelm me. You want to know why it could put me into a mental hospital, because I do NOT want it to put me in a coffin.

People have died due to video games.
There are studies on video game addiction and it's real life effects on the person "suffering".

If you get some spare time, Google all this - it makes for interesting reading.
It also makes you think about your own use of video games and computers in general.

None of these examples answer Blastman, and now my question. How can open send someone to a mental hospital? Wouldnt anything be trigger in solo just as likely as open?

The pokemon example happened because it triggered photokinetic seizures, nothing specific to open can trigger those. Elite, and open in particular isn't similar to anything anyone could have experienced to trigger a ptsd flashback. The last example, ptsd, would that not be triggered in solo when under attack just as likely as when under fire from a player? Why is it only specific to players?

As for jockey's Game addiction is very real, there's plenty of stories of people dying or passing out from prolonged gaming sessions. I even remember a story about a couple trying to sell their baby for more money to buy microtransactions in a free to play game. However, that's not a problem specific to open. You can become addicted to single player games.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

None of these examples answer Blastman, and now my question. How can open send someone to a mental hospital? Wouldnt anything be trigger in solo just as likely as open?

No, as the trigger is not there in Solo or a PvE mode without PvP

Sadly I wish it was true.. I would LOVE for it to be "just a game".. but I've learned that many times PVP, for me, triggers associations because i'm fighting another human being and I start to associate and relive certain things, things I have tried to bury. Someone should not know what a bullet looks like in the barrel of their own gun, I can describe in detail.. I've stared at it long enough and I know it is not my fault they died, yet I still carry the guilt and fight for it to not overwhelm me. You want to know why it could put me into a mental hospital, because I do NOT want it to put me in a coffin.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
None of these examples answer Blastman, and now my question. How can open send someone to a mental hospital? Wouldnt anything be trigger in solo just as likely as open?

If I understand Mouse's reply correctly, when he knows he is engaging in a combative way with another real person, it triggers 'memories' of his time in real combat, and those memories can be traumatic.

It may not answer Blastman (or you) because you and he may have been fortunate enough not to have to face real combat in your lives, and if that's the case, be grateful, but accept that perhaps some people are not so fortunate and that it can have a lasting effect on their lives.

If I have misunderstood Mouse, please feel free to correct me.

 

[Jockey79]

Wouldnt anything be trigger in solo just as likely as open?

No, because some triggers are caused by other people not by NPC actions.

For example, an NPC is not going express a desire to have dinner with one of your loved ones.
An NPC won't use politically incorrect slurs / expressions.
NPCs are less likely to have offensive names or references to certain practices.
The NPCs are not going to boast about or disrespect any religion or belief system.
NPCs don't try to draw a symbol with mining beams, or carve any naughty symbols
And for some odd reason NPCs don't shout out propaganda or make accusations of "wrong" lifestyle choices.

There are a lot of things NPCs do not do, that humans do.
There are lots of "trigger events" for people that an NPC isn't trying to cause.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

The NPC interactions are probably carefully vetted.

"Oh, I'm glad I found you."

You know, social interaction is important. Professional sportspeople (being PC here, never mind) when they clash, have the utmost respect for each other. They may be the opponent, but they are also human, have also spent as much time building up their stamina, practice, etc.

The average Joe who jumps in to a game, PvP destroys someone and shouts obscenities over the comms, and generally acts like there are no consequences, has no respect for anyone, not even himself. Open does not ask you to have respect for other people. Entering a group like Mobius, does. So for some people, Open is not an option, because the social interaction with people with little or no respect for themselves or others is not desired, and, in the case of some people, can be detrimental.

Now, it is Remembrance Sunday tomorrow here in the UK. Have some respect for former vets and salute them, rather than ridicule them. It may be a game, but we are playing in this together, and the reason this game is possible is (partly) due to people who risked their lives that we may live freely and have freedom of choice.

You know who you are: o7

 

[DarkWalker]

None of these examples answer Blastman, and now my question. How can open send someone to a mental hospital? Wouldnt anything be trigger in solo just as likely as open?

An NPC doing something, and a player doing the exact same thing, for many people are completely different experiences. Not even in the same ballpark.

It's my case with anyone trying to rob or steal from me. If it's a NPC, no biggie, part of the game; if it's a player... well, let's just say that if I ever met the player pirate in real life things might get messy.

If you don't find being attacked by a player different from being attacked by a NPC then I doubt you can ever truly understand it.

 

[relayer]

Some really good posts here lately...

Is the rep system/button being wonky for anyone else? It's been 3 days and I still can't rep people I've repped before...

 

[Roybe]

An NPC doing something, and a player doing the exact same thing, for many people are completely different experiences. Not even in the same ballpark.

It's my case with anyone trying to rob or steal from me. If it's a NPC, no biggie, part of the game; if it's a player... well, let's just say that if I ever met the player pirate in real life things might get messy.

If you don't find being attacked by a player different from being attacked by a NPC then I doubt you can ever truly understand it.

That's just a personal problem! ;P Serioulsy. I am glad you have an option to play in Solo mode! You are claiming yourself a danger to society!

 

[Marra Morgan]

It's my case with anyone trying to rob or steal from me. If it's a NPC, no biggie, part of the game; if it's a player... well, let's just say that if I ever met the player pirate in real life things might get messy.

That's... disturbing.

 

[Phosphora]

Some really good posts here lately...

Is the rep system/button being wonky for anyone else? It's been 3 days and I still can't rep people I've repped before...

Just repped you

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Jockey79]

Some really good posts here lately...

Is the rep system/button being wonky for anyone else? It's been 3 days and I still can't rep people I've repped before...

The +rep system does not work on time between +reps to one person, it works on how many other people you +rep in between.
I do not know the exact number, but I think it is around 5 or 6 different people before you can loop back around to the first person again.

(at least that seems to be my observation, I have +rep the same person more than once in 1 day, but I was freely giving out +rep that day so not sure how many I'd given out before I could go back)

 

[Dave1235]

The NPC interactions are probably carefully vetted.

"Oh, I'm glad I found you."

You know, social interaction is important. Professional sportspeople (being PC here, never mind) when they clash, have the utmost respect for each other. They may be the opponent, but they are also human, have also spent as much time building up their stamina, practice, etc.

The average Joe who jumps in to a game, PvP destroys someone and shouts obscenities over the comms, and generally acts like there are no consequences, has no respect for anyone, not even himself. Open does not ask you to have respect for other people. Entering a group like Mobius, does. So for some people, Open is not an option, because the social interaction with people with little or no respect for themselves or others is not desired, and, in the case of some people, can be detrimental.

Now, it is Remembrance Sunday tomorrow here in the UK. Have some respect for former vets and salute them, rather than ridicule them. It may be a game, but we are playing in this together, and the reason this game is possible is (partly) due to people who risked their lives that we may live freely and have freedom of choice.

You know who you are: o7

I can't rep you right now, I also could not let your post go without saying I agree with every single word you typed. o7 to you Sir!

 

[Dave1235]

Why does there have to be a word? There are a myriad of reasons why people play in solo, why do some people have to view solo as not a mode of gameplay but as mechanic to "avoid, hide, undermine, or other insult/accusation" open? That speaks volumes on the Open player's mindset instead of the Solo player.


I will admit.. I am a broken person. Many things I found enjoyable in my youth I can't do anymore. I used to enjoy FPS games, now only if it is co-op or single player. I avoid Open like the plague because I cannot take the chance of PVP. I used to play EVE avidly, yet no matter how I tried I could not avoid PVP and in the end I lost it.. It has taken years to play another space sim. Some games I can disassociate.. sadly most times I can't.. I learned that with Battlefield Bad Company 2. I played with friends and made it a couple days before I started having issues.. I don't want to be in the hospital again. For me it is a mental issue so yes I have service connected mental illness. I play Mobius because I do like social interaction yet some have even invaded there to laugh and pvp people. They don't care that if I had been their target that their actions could put me in a mental hospital, all they care about is their domination of others even if it is against the rules of the group.

I have always tried to keep things fair for PVPers, yet it is PVPers who have not been reciprocal. Some feel that because I cannot play in Open that I shouldn't have the right to actually enjoy the game and contribute. I should be shadowbanned, penalized, forced into Open, unable to mode switch or other actions that would force me into a literal second class citizen status within the game. Because despite all the Dev's had said or done, to some Open is the real game and deserves special treatment and the rest of us are almost playing the game only by their sufferance.

Some claim that I am aggressive and hostile, I laugh at this because I'm not the one trying to penalize others for not playing a certain way. To me that is aggressive and hostile.

Hi Mouse, hope you are well.

You will likely remember one of my posts that vanished a while back, I asked in the second posting if they would be bothered if their actions had a serious RL effect on another person.

I feel really bad for you that yet again you have had to bare your soul on the forum to try to get people to understand why you are not able to play in open.

I won't say any more right now as I will get myself in hot water with the Mods.

 

[Jockey79]

I won't say any more right now as I will get myself in hot water with the Mods.

So which Mods are they then?

 

[Mouse]

Hi Mouse, hope you are well.

You will likely remember one of my posts that vanished a while back, I asked in the second posting if they would be bothered if their actions had a serious RL effect on another person.

I feel really bad for you that yet again you have had to bare your soul on the forum to try to get people to understand why you are not able to play in open.

I won't say any more right now as I will get myself in hot water with the Mods.

Please do not get yourself in trouble on my account Dave, I did what I did because they want justification, yet they offer no justification for why they do what they do.


SO my question is painfully simple, What is the justification for some in trying to force others to engage in an activity that they clearly do NOT want to engage in?

 

[fademist]

Some claim that I am aggressive and hostile, I laugh at this because I'm not the one trying to penalize others for not playing a certain way. To me that is aggressive and hostile.

some times that cant be avoided specialy when some of the open is on that mode but have free pass

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

An NPC doing something, and a player doing the exact same thing, for many people are completely different experiences. Not even in the same ballpark.
…

I find it very strange that some players don't see or understand the difference between the player interaction with a NPC and a CMDR. For me the difference is so obvious, so big and so fundamental that I have problems to understand why somebody doesn't sees that difference.

It's easy to think that those who don't see the difference are doing so as a way to - intentional or unintentional - justify their actions, but I think (hope) it's just a result of their experiences in live.

Someone who never had a highly negative experience with an other human won't simply understand why certain behaviors might result in very strong negative emotional reactions from somebody who had such experiences, why it matters that on the other end of the internet an other human is controlling that spaceship or not.

It's easy to know that it's just a game, that everybody participating in this game is save and nothing bad happens in real live, the problem is that emotions don't follow rational thought processes and simply happen based on prior experiences.

The current mode system that allows switching between modes and with all modes affecting the same BGS is highly inclusive for all players. It might feel unfair for some players wanting certain gameplay styles, but I think that allowing more players to enjoy the same game is more important than some theoretical balance issues that might result form the way the game modes are implemented.