Yup, and with XB1 getting Private Groups added - I think that speaks volumes.
You're supposed to follow that with the Wall of Information (above)
I tried! But I cant see the text in the pictures. I did try though!
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I tried! But I cant see the text in the pictures. I did try though!
Oh, I get that. I agree, which is why I dont pirate out in Erevate or whatever the starter is called. But I think that you would see a lot less of that A-type viper vs starter sidewinder garbage if there was a way to see where other player density was. I am CERTAIN that some people play the game to be jerks. However, I am also considering the possibility that they only go there because thats where they know others will be. I dont, because like I said, I am doing it for fun and profit... and there is no fun instablapping someone who doesnt know how to fly (or cant sustain 1 volley because of their ship limits), and they wont be hauling anything I can steal and sell... if they can even figure out how to jettison it or chat with me to negotiate a ransom.
As for the guy on the trigger end... I enjoy the concept of loss matters. My most memorable moment in this game was after spending a night gathering a cargo hold full of pirated gold... and then losing it to another pirate doing it the same thing. I loved it. I lost it all (as well as a full A-type Cobra), and it was the most engrossing moment in the game yet. I view encounters with other players as content, good or bad, but still content in a universe where if you dont make your own... gets bland after a bit. Just my personal thoughts I know.
So, while it may be hard to explain or understand... I view my actions as a pirate as ...helpful... in a way. Sure, you hate me for stealing your stuff or shooting you down (or making you shoot me down), but youll remember it.
The devs have not, nor will they, give out the information on the BGS.
As far as trade, NPC's have no effect on the BGS at all. Trade figures are based on PC interactions only. Exporting and importing are tracked by game and reported to the BGS, and it adjusts supply and demand curves toward the average galactic price (a set number in itself, not changing due to galactic supply and/or demand), bringing long term equilibration to markets (over time they become less profitable). This change occurs once per day with the daily 'tick'. The 'supply and demand curve' gives the game a number to add to the supply and a number to remove from the supply...this happens on offsetting 10 minute ticks all day. This models planetary consumption and production of goods. To 'drain' a system of goods, players must move more than the supply tick can provide...and does happen during large scale CG's. This, however, reduces profitability by moving the 'drained' system closer to the galactic average.
Remember it. You're right, they will. Memory is a powerful thing.
I guess this here is where the dividing line is. I am not sure that everyone would share this feeling as a positive force in their life, especially when the cause of the loss is another human being. Lose to a game - meh, get better! Lose to another human being - it brings back memories of that kid in school who stole your sweets. It's a laughable example, I know. But take Mouse, for example. In his case, that memory in his life is the man with the gun on the opposite side of the conflict, and loss would have meant his own life. Again, lose against the game is one thing, bringing this memory up because you face another human...
So some people go to play in Mobius and Solo because the "loss matters" consequence is too hard for them. I would not even dare to imagine thinking about the possibility of calling someone who served in the armed forces of any country a coward... but you never know who is on the other end of that internet connection. A combat logger may have entered open by mistake but only realised it on meeting you. You never know!
Now take that and add on top of that a suggestion to change the status quo with regards to Modes and you suddenly have an inkling of how emotional this issue could be for someone who wants to be a part of this community, but cannot take the consequences of playing with people exactly because that loss is too painful. To have the system changed would be a slap in the face of far too many decent people, if you understand what I am saying.
I guess this here is where the dividing line is. I am not sure that everyone would share this feeling as a positive force in their life, especially when the cause of the loss is another human being. Lose to a game - meh, get better! Lose to another human being - it brings back memories of that kid in school who stole your sweets. It's a laughable example, I know. But take Mouse, for example. In his case, that memory in his life is the man with the gun on the opposite side of the conflict, and loss would have meant his own life. Again, lose against the game is one thing, bringing this memory up because you face another human...
So some people go to play in Mobius and Solo because the "loss matters" consequence is too hard for them. I would not even dare to imagine thinking about the possibility of calling someone who served in the armed forces of any country a coward... but you never know who is on the other end of that internet connection. A combat logger may have entered open by mistake but only realised it on meeting you. You never know!
Now take that and add on top of that a suggestion to change the status quo with regards to Modes and you suddenly have an inkling of how emotional this issue could be for someone who wants to be a part of this community, but cannot take the consequences of playing with people exactly because that loss is too painful. To have the system changed would be a slap in the face of far too many decent people, if you understand what I am saying.
Thanks for the reply.
That the BGS only gets "activated" for a system if a CMDR passes through it (at least one instance created) sounds very plausible.
It would be nice if the developers would explain more about the way the BGS works without player interaction and let the players find out how the BGS reacts to player interaction.
I guess this is going OT.
The difference is the intended target of the description. If someone writes about a hypothetical "griefer" it not aimed at somebody. If somebody writes that players in a certain mode are "carebares" or "grievers" then it is insulting to all who play that mode.
I usually laughs at pirates who try to pirate me (in a friendly way - even if they destroy me) and indeed it would make the game in open a little bit boring without "bad guys/gals" - but everybody has different limits at what point something becomes to much.
At the same time there are players in open who simply don't know when to stop, when not to do something or simply ignore the interests of other players. That can be very annoying - doesn't matter if it's a wing of "pirates" in high-end ships interdicting a much weaker ship or a CMDR who combat logs.
But that's the way if a large group of humans interact in a very anonymous way.
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but I think I have seen a youtube vid form Frontier in which the basic concepts of the BGS where explained in a very vague manner. I guess I will spend some hours searching for that in the near future.
Thank you for your answer
They have discussed the generalities of what the BGS is and how it COULD work. They have never given detailed information out as to the internal math and functionality. BTW if you haven't seen the thread:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193064
If you are a 'practical learner' (you would rather do, than read...or reinvent the wheel for yourself) I suggest either hooking up with Mercs of Mikuun or Elite Diplomatic Corps. EDC in particular is a great place to learn the BGS...as they are tracking a very large amount of systems.
Roybe;3215879… BTW if you haven't seen the thread: [URL said:
Yes, this thread was very helpful for my project to liberate a little system. After 3 months (of casual BGS manipulation) I finally managed to switch the system thanks to some informations I found in that thread.
And btw: the CSG was one of the reasons why I decided to take a much closer look at the BGS and why I went from neutral to aligned to the big evil of this galaxy.
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Again.. maybe you should look at the FIRST PAGE, first post... the words you said.. were insulting and were flaming/bait type words as defined by Fdev. You take a jab at my "reasoning ability" yet please.. look at the first post..
your whole argument against solo is this... "I cannot see them kill them so it is unfair" that is it.. no matter what wall of text you disgorge upon the page your argument is that line. And you have blatantly ignored everyone else telling you that even if everyone was playing in open... you would still not be able to see them to kill them. Only very rarely would matchmaker pair you with them if at all. But nope you have to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and rail away, apparently you believe if you say something often enough it becomes true.. and what did the poor Solo player do to earn your disdain.. oh yeah.. they play the game and have fun.
I laugh at your gold star comment because makes no difference open or solo when exploring.. still out in the black all alone with the beautiful stars.
And I am happy for you that you have a newer PC and it can do all sorts of wonderful things. As you know nothing of Anthony's job or financial situation your comments reflect arrogance even more. What you should have said was, "Glad you can play!"
And you were in a wing I take it? Since you were saying that there was a group of you... the more in the group the less likely that others will be matchmakered with your group. And I have to say I find your use of the word "coward" interesting(again you still are insulting people and using words you are not supposed too). You blatantly claim that those who combat logged when faced by your "group" are cowards.. yet they were faced with impossible odds and chose the better part of valor. I have to say... 1 vs your group... I think you are using that label on the wrong person.
Thanks, doc. I am glad someone finally made the clinical diagnosis that pulling someone out of supercruise and divesting them of their cargo (and/or ship if they are uncooperative) is a valid MENTAL problem. My family will be sad to see me carted off to the looney bin, but ill try to let them know its for the greater good, as nobody else will succumb to my voracious appetite for fake space pixel destruction.
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Everyone here, on BOTH sides, keeps saying "rabble rabble this is what the devs intended" or "rabble rabble this is not what the game should be". I think its pretty clear what the dev's intended by their actions/inactions regarding the game... Here are the facts:
PVP exists in this game as a design. It does not matter if it was an afterthought or if it was the core concept of the game. Its here now, it works, and its FUN. I enjoy it. Roleplaying a space pirate is just as much a valid idea as a lone explorer somewhere way out in the rim. For the record, I try to be the "classy" version of the pirate... not the guns-blazing no profit type, but that depends on the nature of the players I interdict... mouthy jerks (you should see some of the insults..) or those who try and run get blapped (or blap me
Now that being said, Solo mode and group mode ALSO exist in this game by design. If you dont WANT to deal with other players pirating you or... *ahem* "GANKING" you... then play in a group or by yourself. Nothing wrong with that either.
To be honest, I think this is a pointless discussion. I play in open, I dont have any shortage of targets (I frequent the Leesti/Ridequat(sp?)/Lave area, there is always traffic). I dont feel that im "losing" my content to group mode, and if I am, I am fine with that too. It cuts down on the amount of people that think I have a social disorder for shooting space ships.
My game works. Your game works. Everyone's game works. Pick your mode and play.
you do realize that there is a difference in gankers and PVPers right?
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Griefing is a type of action.. carebear is not and is and insult.
YOu are a pirate.. and no one is saying that everyone who does PVP is a jerk.. griefers are though..
Leto I put you in a class with Jordan, if I played in open and you stopped me.. sure I would give you "some" of my cargo.. sadly I can't take the chance that it is someone other than you and Jordan who gets a thrill from griefing others just to do it.
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I absolutely recognize that. However, I think some of my fellow forum mates would classify pirates and greifers as the same thing, and I have had several of my "customers" file reports on me for "grief play" even though I had only ever had a single encounter with them. (I dont know that they actually have filed them, but I have been threatened with the report).
And if I were to stop you, or anyone, for that matter... I follow the post that DaveB replied to in my Piracy thread... I dont demand "ALL" of your cargo... I demand a fraction. That way I make money, and the target doesnt lose it all. Much better results with that.
Also.. I dont think everyone is on the same page as far as "carebear" either. When I am rolling around making money, I say "Yeah, im carebearing for a few hours." Its not meant as an insult, more like a widely used (at least in my community) description for ratting (killing NPC for bounty) or mining, or whatever.
Carmen: Leto, what are you doing?
Leto: Not much. Carebearing a bit. I need to buy a new power distributor.
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I dont really know. It just sort became synonymous with grinding creds maybe. I can see where it could be used as an insult, but then again so can greifer. If I were to say "Mouse is a carebear", you would take offense to it (likely), when in actuality, my own definition would mean you do not engage in PVP and are interested in making money/other things. Obscure, maybe. But it works for my guys
Edit: After reading that, id say that the definition depends greatly on your own point of view. When I see people saying "greifers" in the same paragraph they talk about "PVP pilots", I tend to think they are grouping the two together. In that respect, I would say its meant as an insult, the same when someone calls a PVE pilot a carebear.
Mods: I know im skirting the line here. Not hurling insults... I promise!
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Carebear in video games has always been an outright insult towards PvE players.
It is the most common insult to PvE players in games that have PvE and PvP.
Griefing is a type of play most games punish, anyone confusing piracy for griefing needs to go back and read the description for the game.
This is a PvPvE (or PvE only if you're a Solo on person) game, unless someone is constantly harassing the same player(s) over and over - I don't think it is possible to "grief" someone in this game.
All someone has to do is jump modes and presto - bad person gone.
I've seen exploiting, piracy, general PvP, out right cheating and combat logs all labelled as "griefing" here.
I'm starting to think some folks just have a victim complex and need to play the "oh Devs, woe is me, please rescue me from these nasty griefers" card.
As some try really really hard to be upset over nothing, or over part of the game that works as advertised.
I dont really know. It just sort became synonymous with grinding creds maybe. I can see where it could be used as an insult, but then again so can greifer. If I were to say "Mouse is a carebear", you would take offense to it (likely), when in actuality, my own definition would mean you do not engage in PVP and are interested in making money/other things. Obscure, maybe. But it works for my guys
I freely admit I am one.. ever since I had people try to use it as an insult in EVE. The trick is the intent behind using the word. sadly most have an insulting adn negative intent.. so it became one of the automatic no go words.
Griefing is an action.. now if I were to say "You are a griefer" that would be bad too.. and not allowed either as far as I know when spoken to a specific person. If I said all PVPers are griefers I could very well get a warning or points .
In EVE (only saying it because you said other games), a "carebear" was anyone who played the game by trading, manufacturing, mission running, or mining. It wasnt ever an insult (I think it started as one, but evolved), but it was used by those players themselves to describe the playstyle. Trust me when I say that if I used the term, it wouldnt be an insult. Granted, I realize I may be the exception rather than the rule, which is why I dont say it here (I read the rules..)
Sir, THIS is 100% correct.
The bold bit made me lol a lot!
Personally I use the term griefer/ganker to mean person who engages in unwated PvP actions regardless of piracy as an excuse... not that I consider this type of game play to be wrong, I used to but that was an emotional response.
Now I have no problem pulling a wanted commander out of SC and shooting them just because it says WANTED next to their name. I put the message up: "You are a criminal, prepare to die." and the shooting begins...
During the OH CG I was attacking anything I thought might have cargo onboard the message then was: "Drop the drugs and run!". I didn't pick any up, just waited until they expired. In hindsight I'm sure that people would have classed that as 'ganking' when in reality it was me being me - very anti-drugs for personal reasons.
Now that I have moved into open I can see that there is a lot more fun to be had - some of it will be at the expense on other players - it's the way the game works as you say so well
For the first 2 years of EVE it was most definitely an insult.
I used to partake of the starting corps mining ops that some experienced players organised - where a group of us would go strip mining for 12 hours in an 0.8 or higher.
The abuse in chat (alts from those who played in 0.0) was off the charts. And sooner or later a suicide gank squad would turn up to disrupt us or for them just to get easy kills.
All the time calling us "[swear word] carebears" all the time.
Every time someone made a suggestion in Planetside to ease the learning curve of the game (a PvP only, 3 faction 3 way fight) they were called the same again.
WoW PvPers used to throw that word about on their forums quite often at one point. When PvP was suffering with lack of players, it was because of the "[swear word] carebears."
And would go as far as to tell people not to bring their dirty carebear gear in to PvP.
I personally have never seen the term used for anything other than an insult. Just as a certain "F" word, "C" word and "N" word can all be used in other manners - say them in front of a law enforcement officer and see what happens (common usage dictates they are swear words only now. Just like common usage for carebear)
Personally, I don't give a rats backside. I've been called many things in my time, so nothing is offensive to me any more.
Curse words are illegal where you live? That has to be.... different....
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