Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Seonid]

I don't know what the answer is though because clearly some people want/need SOLO.

That's the thing, the most common assumption made by people that don't want the 3 game modes is that it's all derived from "hiding" from other players. This if course ignores the inconvenient fact that you can "hide" from players in Open. It also works the other way to a degree in that there is a perception that the instant you step into Open, you will be attacked by a zerg rush of xxx7337k1||3rxx 14 year old murdering psychopaths. That isn't true either, but it's the impression given by many that don't want the 3 game modes as well.

People will always play a game in the way that they enjoy, whatever that is. Sometimes that will result in play styles that are incompatible with each other, but that's not an issue here with the 3 game modes. Choice wins, always.

 

[Joif]

This frustrates me too, I'm not going to go out my way to engage in Power Play because it doesn't interest me adding more grinds on top of my already monetary grinds, but I was looking forward to defending my sector from the threat of other powers when the situation arises.. but since there's no way to defend against the solo players from prepping/undermining/etc.. I'd probably be wasting my own time patrolling the systems that I could spend making fat wads of wonga.

I think the solo/open should definitely have separate databases/servers as this issue is never going to go away ever..

Let the solo players fight their invisible wars
Let us open players actually interact like you would expect from a multi-player game.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I understand and I'm one of those guys who would rather have just one mode (open), but I think a healthier compromise would be to reduce or remove the actual value of player contributions in anything but open.

That way, they can still do the missions and get the merits, but the scores don't increase from their contributions as much as someone in open.

I question how appropriate this merger was, mod.

 

[DaveB]

Absolute rubbish. I want a separate mode that does not impinge on you. Duplicated for just me? I am not the only one that asks for this - there are many Elite players that want this.

But you ARE asking them to scrap their game, you and all the others arguing for separation of the modes. The single background sim is baked into the game at such a fundamental level that you're asking for a wholesale rewrite. It. Isn't. Going. To. Happen. Just after release I made a bet with a person saying "FD will see the light and separate the modes" that I'd drop them 100t of palladium if that change happened within 12 months. Half way there and I think my credits are still safe. You prepared to bet me the same if they don't? If by the anniversary of release the modes are still on the same single galaxy, you drop ME the 100t of Pd? Or will you take me up on the bet and then welsh on it by ragequitting when what you want doesn't happen? It won't. If you can find a mutually acceptable third party to hold the funds I'll even make it a RL bet with you - say $100? We each deposit the funds and if the game still has a single background sim at the anniversary of release I get all $200, if there is more than one background sim running at that time you get it.

If you're looking at this rationally rather than yelling about wanting something that you already know you're not going to get, you won't take the bet. Of course if you're THAT confident maybe you're right, I'm wrong and it will be you gets a nice windfall. I, however, AM that confident. Are you?

 

[withnail]

I play in all three modes and have no issues with people playing the game in whichever mode they want.


However, having played a fair but of Powerplay now, I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better if it was done in open play only (or possibly groups). It's not a fair playing field when solo actions can affect the outcome of the cycle (I understand that all powers have the same option of using solo).

You can't fight this in conventional play, so power play turns into a meta-game.

I think this is more a flaw in the design than poor play by Cmdrs. Not sure it can be fixed.

Will be interested to see how Frontier balance this, as I an sure they must be looking at it.

Edit: you can't separate the three modes, the background simulation is telling a story, we can't have two out three stories to read about. Plus I like playing in all three modes, I'm sure others flit between them like me.

 

[SkipRat]

WOW!! 264 pages of a debate over nothing... Who cares what you mode you play it in, seriously...

Right... People can choose to play the game in solo, group or open, whatever way they want, it zero to do with anyone else and they are neither less or more of person depending on which mode they play. Each mode has advantages and disadvantages. One is not better than the other and not a single one should extra over another and calling people out for which mode they play is just childish and stupid, it is like some of you have never really experienced real problems and things to really worry about... Anyway...

However, IMO, I feel those that want to participate in PP, should not be able to hide away in Solo mode. Simple down to the fact that PP is a group activity and if you wish to be a part of it, you need to put your money where your mouth is and man up. That is not to say, that there are not many issues with Power Play that I feel need to be addressed


​

 

[Jockey79]

WOW!! 264 pages of a debate over nothing... ​

On the default layout, the max is 667 pages - which is 10,000 posts.

This is mega thread two (2) on the topic (there were smaller threads going back over two (2) years on this, despite the KS clearly stating the game would have the modes).

I'll just let that sink in

-----------------------------------

Edit;

Spoiler

Not only did we have out stickie taken away from us, but we have now been removed from the General Discussion Forum, we've been put in a corner!



It's like someone wants us to be forgotten

 

[ianw]

WOW!! 264 pages of a debate over nothing... Who cares what you mode you play it in, seriously...

Right... People can choose to play the game in solo, group or open, whatever way they want, it zero to do with anyone else and they are neither less or more of person depending on which mode they play. Each mode has advantages and disadvantages. One is not better than the other and not a single one should extra over another and calling people out for which mode they play is just childish and stupid, it is like some of you have never really experienced real problems and things to really worry about... Anyway...

However, IMO, I feel those that want to participate in PP, should not be able to hide away in Solo mode. Simple down to the fact that PP is a group activity and if you wish to be a part of it, you need to put your money where your mouth is and man up. That is not to say, that there are not many issues with Power Play that I feel need to be addressed


​

You seem to be coming out with mixed messages - on the one hand "calling people out for which mode they play is just childish and stupid" but in the next sentence you're suggesting people "man up".

It seems to be a fundamental design principle that everyone gets to play the same backend sim regardless of what mode they are in.

I'm not sure how they could uncouple Powerplay or CGs from that. I suppose you could rate/reward players only against their group type for rewards so if there is a top ten reward there is a top ten for each mode.

But you can't start changing how the modes influence PP or CG without having separate background stuff. And if you take stuff away from people they will naturally get upset.

 

[fademist]

I question how appropriate this merger was, mod.

was on same content like this threadnought and why open need more rewards? they r "special"?

- - - Updated - - -

I play in all three modes and have no issues with people playing the game in whichever mode they want.


However, having played a fair but of Powerplay now, I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better if it was done in open play only (or possibly groups). It's not a fair playing field when solo actions can affect the outcome of the cycle (I understand that all powers have the same option of using solo).

You can't fight this in conventional play, so power play turns into a meta-game.

I think this is more a flaw in the design than poor play by Cmdrs. Not sure it can be fixed.

Will be interested to see how Frontier balance this, as I an sure they must be looking at it.

Edit: you can't separate the three modes, the background simulation is telling a story, we can't have two out three stories to read about. Plus I like playing in all three modes, I'm sure others flit between them like me.

DB words: solo balance solo ......and he know better than us cause he has all the facts

 

[SkipRat]

You seem to be coming out with mixed messages - on the one hand "calling people out for which mode they play is just childish and stupid" but in the next sentence you're suggesting people "man up".

It seems to be a fundamental design principle that everyone gets to play the same backend sim regardless of what mode they are in.

I'm not sure how they could uncouple Powerplay or CGs from that. I suppose you could rate/reward players only against their group type for rewards so if there is a top ten reward there is a top ten for each mode.

But you can't start changing how the modes influence PP or CG without having separate background stuff. And if you take stuff away from people they will naturally get upset.

They don't. They grey the menus and options, so basically the background simulation still runs in solo/group, you just cant interact with it.

People can get upset all they want, some changes have to be made for the benefit of the game and balance.

Power Play is a group activity, utterly obvious in its design, it is simply not for the solo player and being able to hide behind a wall, undermining other players without any recourse, is highly unfair and unbalancing.

You can't please everyone, and if you try, you will only end up pleasing no-one. So you do what is fair and right, remove as many methods of exploitation as you can like undermining a group activity in solo. I know people who play in solo, because they have bounties from undermining in PP and don't want to get shot or live with consequences of the actions they took. So how is that right? It's not and they will be the first to admit that too, but they can exploit it. And then went people start crying like children, you tell them exactly where to shove it or more diplomatically ignore them until they stop throwing the teddies out of the pram and start acting mature again.

 

[withnail]

was on same content like this threadnought and why open need more rewards? they r "special"?

- - - Updated - - -



DB words: solo balance solo ......and he know better than us cause he has all the facts

I think he's right. My issue is that there is a shadow game going on which doesn't sit well with me (this is not a pop at solo players).

I can't see what traffic is going through a system, it's hidden from my view.

Look at a small power (Archon for example) versus a large power (Hudson). Archon players are not going to be able to compete against solo trading of propaganda on numbers alone.

I think Powerplay would be much richer if players were to interact more.

 

[fademist]

I think he's right. My issue is that there is a shadow gabber going on which doesn't sit well with me (this is not a pop at solo players).

I can't see what traffic is going through a system, it's hidden from my view.

Look at a small power (Archon for example) versus a large power (Hudson). Archon players are not going to be able to compete against solo trading of propaganda on numbers alone.

I think Powerplay would be much richer if players were to interact more.

to interact more can be done if they decide to put chats only for the powers (same on all modes)

 

[SkipRat]

I think he's right. My issue is that there is a shadow gabber going on which doesn't sit well with me (this is not a pop at solo players).

I can't see what traffic is going through a system, it's hidden from my view.

Look at a small power (Archon for example) versus a large power (Hudson). Archon players are not going to be able to compete against solo trading of propaganda on numbers alone.

I think Powerplay would be much richer if players were to interact more.

I completely agree.

 

[withnail]

Apologies for the typo. My phone plays tricks on me. Fixed in original post

 

[fademist]

Look at a small power (Archon for example) versus a large power (Hudson). Archon players are not going to be able to compete against solo trading of propaganda on numbers alone.

that is an assumption though cause noone can tell wich power solo players work except FD ;p

 

[ianw]

They don't. They grey the menus and options, so basically the background simulation still runs in solo/group, you just cant interact with it.

People can get upset all they want, some changes have to be made for the benefit of the game and balance.

Power Play is a group activity, utterly obvious in its design, it is simply not for the solo player and being able to hide behind a wall, undermining other players without any recourse, is highly unfair and unbalancing.

You can't please everyone, and if you try, you will only end up pleasing no-one. So you do what is fair and right, remove as many methods of exploitation as you can like undermining a group activity in solo. I know people who play in solo, because they have bounties from undermining in PP and don't want to get shot or live with consequences of the actions they took. So how is that right? It's not and they will be the first to admit that too, but they can exploit it. And then went people start crying like children, you tell them exactly where to shove it or more diplomatically ignore them until they stop throwing the teddies out of the pram and start acting mature again.

So you're actually suggesting the fix to this problem you have is to shut everyone who isn't in open out of Powerplay?

FD has said quite clearly that Powerplay is for everyone in all the modes. I imagine they will make changes to the way it works but I really can't see them shutting any modes out of it so I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

 

[withnail]

that is an assumption though cause noone can tell wich power solo players work except FD ;p

It's not beyond the bounds of theorising though, is it?

 

[SkipRat]

So you're actually suggesting the fix to this problem you have is to shut everyone who isn't in open out of Powerplay?

FD has said quite clearly that Powerplay is for everyone in all the modes. I imagine they will make changes to the way it works but I really can't see them shutting any modes out of it so I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

I like the idea of PP, I just don't think it has been implemented very well, and yes, I would definitely restrict people playing PP from playing it outside of open. Especially if it makes for a much better overall experience.

The way solo can be exploited in PP makes a mockery of the whole thing.

 

[Jockey79]

I like the idea of PP, I just don't think it has been implemented very well, and yes, I would definitely restrict people playing PP from playing it outside of open. Especially if it makes for a much better overall experience.

The way solo can be exploited in PP makes a mockery of the whole thing.

For a start, it is not an exploit - this is how the game was marketed and sold from day one (1). Mode switching is a core feature of the game.
You cannot lock any content out, you all seem to miss that the modes are nothing but a multiplayer filter and nothing to do with the games content.

 

[Major Plonker]

I think he's right. My issue is that there is a shadow game going on which doesn't sit well with me (this is not a pop at solo players).

I can't see what traffic is going through a system, it's hidden from my view.

Look at a small power (Archon for example) versus a large power (Hudson). Archon players are not going to be able to compete against solo trading of propaganda on numbers alone.

I think Powerplay would be much richer if players were to interact more.

Powerplay is consistent with the core game design, that is basically a PVE game with PVP enabled as a bit of a side note for those who want it.

You want to make money - you trade with stations or you bounty hunt NPCs (possible to hunt players only but don't expect to make worthwhile profit).
You want to change a system's ownership/allegiance - you trade, do missions and you blow up NPCs.
You want to forcibly stop anyone entering a system - wrong game.

If you want to make a difference to the background sim you do it via PVE means, that has always been the case and is clearly what the devs want for their game. The powerplay update is entirely consistent with the PVE core of the game and I can't see why anybody expected it to be any different.