Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Viajero]

I'll admit to being somewhat biased, though, because Power Play doesn't interest me in the least. If I ever engage in it, it will be merely to farm a reward and leave;

From that point of view my proposal should suit you fine then. There would be no impact to your rewards at all. And any tweaks in "progress bar" differentiation between Open and Solo/Private would be strictly impacting Powerplay itself alone and nothing else outside it.

 

[Faded Glory]

I know - and I nearly got spaced! That is the last time I offer up buckets of <chortles> or indeed a <splutter>

I don't know, this thread could do with all the <chortles> it can get if you ask me. And the odd <splutter> doesn't hurt either.

 

[Viajero]

FD never said players would be able to blockade systems, DBOBE spoke about it at EGX2014 at around 20 mins in, he specifically does not want player blockades, he is referring to guilds but same thing here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzizYUEF9c;t=19m41s

I guess the word "blockade" can carry too much of a visual impact. A blockade can be as simple as a wing of 4 players (weather a part of an org or not I dont really care) trying to stop another wing from Undermining one of their control systems for example, or preventing an enemy wing from delivering Powerplay material back at their own control system. Any gameplay scenario really (big or small) where a player in Open can opportunistically avoid by simply switching to Solo/Private, basically.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I don't know, this thread could do with all the <chortles> it can get if you ask me. And the odd <splutter> doesn't hurt either.

Ok ok - I can't manage a bucket of <chortles> but maybe this will appease everyone

Now, as for Open, Groups, Solo and their interaction with Powerplay - the only thing I would like to further add is that I love the fact I have absolutely nothing to do with it As a game mechanic the idea bores me completely, and as an in-game mechanic it offers absolutely nothing to an independent pilot like myself. Other people love it. Isn't freedom of choice a wonderful thing?

 

[Faded Glory]

From that point of view my proposal should suit you fine then. There would be no impact to your rewards at all. And any tweaks in "progress bar" differentiation between Open and Solo/Private would be strictly impacting Powerplay itself alone and nothing else outside it.

But no mode should have an advantage over any other. The modes are there to allow players to play how they want, and players need to accept the 'limitations' of the mode(s) they choose, or play a different mode.

There are players who may want to play in Open for player interaction, but they are forced into Solo because some players (and FD) condone non consensual PvP, and they don't enjoy being someone else's content. Those players rarely complain as loudly as the Open only proponents, but get on and use the modes to facilitate the way they want to play. Open players can do the same, but they moan incessantly about being 'forced' to make concessions, and insist that everyone else change the way they play to suit them.

Maybe it's time to stop the entitlement. We're all entitled to play the game the way we want to.

 

[Cody]

Bucket? Yeah...

[video=youtube;LqnmpoG4QnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqnmpoG4QnQ[/video]

 

[Dave1235]

What I don't really get is why you think this extra mode / option will be full of players? Half the time pro Open players come on here complaining that there's no-one in Open because they are all 'hiding' in Solo, so why would an Open only option suddenly be chock full of players?

I'd have thought that all the hard core Open players are already in Open, and those numbers are bolstered by occasional Open players. Presumably an Open only option would lose the occasional players making it even more of a ghost town than you say that Open already is.

I resemble that comment, I have been away from open for a few months, I have been back on the weekends for the last couple of weeks (posting I will be in Diso soon with 100k of rares if you would like to escort me to the station (happy to share) lol, in this thread). I might spend an hour in open later after I refit & test my ship. I do enjoy the time I spend in open, but that's due to me having the choice to do it when I want to.

Open will only lose players if they try to make new modes, and I am not too bothered TBH, if they want to destroy their own mode let them, they need some open players to come in here and argue against them to save their mode, I can live without it, or maybe use it more when its a bit less "busy", who knows.

Mmm PVE mode in main screen, I wonder how long it would take to gain more members than Mobius.

 

[Jockey79]

I guess the word "blockade" can carry too much of a visual impact. A blockade can be as simple as a wing of 4 players trying to stop another wing from Undermining one of their control systems for example, or preventing an enemy wing (weather a part of an org or not I dont really care) from delivering Powerplay material back at their own control system. Any gameplay scenario really (big or small) where a player in Open can opportunistically avoid by simply switching to Solo/Private, basically.

Well, a wing of 4 is not really a "blockade". But I'll run with it.....

If one person in the blockade wing, has a poor connection to one person in the runners wing (can you see where I am going with this?) - then for the sake of decent pings within their own wings, the matchmaker will keep both wings apart so not cause lag spikes for anyone. So then despite being in the same system, both wings are in their own instances within that system.

To show how this can quite innocently happen, in my house we have;

3 computers,
4 android tablets,
2 android phones,
Sky TV (on demand + catch up services)
1 android TV box.

So, I'm playing Elite: Dangerous and at any point my son may start watching YouTube on his PC in his room, my wife may pop Netflix on the TV or start playing H1Z1/ Dragon Age Inquisition (multi)/ L4D2 (multi), my oldest daughter may watch Netflix or YouTube on a tablet and my youngest will fire up Spotify on whatever device she gets her hands on. Take a rough stab at what happens to my ping. If I remain in multiplay modes, I lag others out to the point the matchmaker stops putting me in with other people (aka Solo). If I'm in a wing of just 2 of us I may get away with it, but we won't be seeing anyone else any time soon.

Now, what if I'm in the wing of runners.......

 

[Dave1235]

<pokes head out of cupboard> Did someone mention guilds? Space them!

Sshhh, they are still asleep https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8368&page=268

Five days now, it might even be dead, Asp has been beta testing some "anti guild silver bullets" (must be him, he made the last post in that thread!), lets keep it quiet until we get past gamma, like the thargoids, we need to prepare, we need to increase our research budget, oh no, sorry wrong game

 

[Ghostickles]

Don't forget that the forum is for all FD games, past and present, not just Elite: Dangerous. And membership numbers don't reflect active membership.

you can read those too, its all there, archives too.
This is a wonderful source of information for the Devs. Its good when designing multiplayer not to take too much advise from single players, and visa versa of course.

edit:

numbers say otherwise though..640k copies aprox....near 48k forum members

I see 95k members, weird.

 

[DarkWalker]

From that point of view my proposal should suit you fine then. There would be no impact to your rewards at all. And any tweaks in "progress bar" differentiation between Open and Solo/Private would be strictly impacting Powerplay itself alone and nothing else outside it.

It would be very unlikely to directly affect me, yes. I don't personally care about the results of Power Play; if I could get the same rewards, with a similar time commitment, without pledging to a power at all, I would certainly choose that alternative way. And I'm unlikely to ever play in Open (though, if I do take a peek, I want to be able to change back to Solo without having to wait for some cooldown).

I'm not the only person that prefers to avoid direct PvP, though; there are others that prefer to stay in Solo or Group but want a shot at this, which is more or less the only piece of new content since launch. My point of view is always that PvP should be fully optional and that players that choose to completely avoid PvP should never be penalized in any way — and your proposal is basically a penalty for players that choose to opt out of PvP, by making them unable to influence the result of PP.

In any case, Frontier explicitly promised that solo players would be able to engage in Power Play — and, if Power Play is about helping one's faction, this means that Solo players must be able to contribute to them. So implementing your idea would also mean breaking an explicit promise.

The idea of influencing the galaxy in ED, from what was said since the early days, seems to be as much about players doing their own thing without interference as it's about players duking it out in PvP. The early dev diary about what would in the future become CGs and PP already said that players would be able to participate in solo. I don't see why players were surprised to find that Solo was a perfectly valid option to engage in Power Play.

So, I'm playing Elite: Dangerous and at any point my son may start watching YouTube on his PC in his room, my wife may pop Netflix on the TV or start playing H1Z1/ Dragon Age Inquisition (multi)/ L4D2 (multi), my oldest daughter may watch Netflix or YouTube on a tablet and my youngest will fire up Spotify on whatever device she gets her hands on. Take a rough stab at what happens to my ping. If I remain in multiplay modes, I lag others out to the point the matchmaker stops putting me in with other people (aka Solo). If I'm in a wing of just 2 of us I may get away with it, but we won't be seeing anyone else any time soon.

Now, what if I'm in the wing of runners.......

Which you can simulate (depending on how good is your broadband) by merely putting a game to download on Steam, by starting a torrent, and if using Wi-fi even by the creative application of tinfoil patches or by turning on a Microwave oven. Or by using any tool that simulates poor connection speeds or latency, like the ones used by programmers to see if their network-based programs can work in real world conditions.

 

[Viajero]

We're all entitled to play the game the way we want to.

I dont think the argument was about entitlement or lack thereof at all.

- Also, I agree with you on the principle that comparative risk between solo and open is only in the eye of the beholder. But please notice the proposal is meant to address preemptively perceptions that may lead to a break of trust with the system by a sector of the community, irrespective of if these perceptions are correct or not. Only FDEV has the actual figures to back up any decision on the matter. The question is which is the larger and more influential group with regards to influencing potential new and prospective buyers/players? The one that claims that opportunistic Solo/Private is ruining Powerplay or the one of actual Solo players playing Powerplay that would feel upset by this proposal?

 

[Dave1235]

you can read those too, its all there, archives too.
This is a wonderful source of information for the Devs. Its good when designing multiplayer not to take too much advise from single players, and visa versa of course.

edit:


I see 95k members, weird.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php

Where are you looking?

 

[SteveLaw]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php

Where are you looking?

Front page of the forum. At the bottom. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forum.php

 

[Faded Glory]

I dont think the argument was about entitlement or lack thereof at all.

I was not having a go at you, but actually, that is the argument. And the fact that FD do not seem to be interested in changing the game indicates that the 'perceptions' that the game is broken are not correct. And it does matter whether they are correct or not. You want them to change game mechanics because some people think they are wrong even though they may not be? There is no need to address perceptions that are not correct.

Play the game or don't, but please stop whining that it's not fair. It's a game, have fun playing it how you want, with people, without people, with risk, without. It's your choice to play it how you want, if it's more important to be a top scorer, and the way to do that is in Solo, do it, if it's more important to engage in player interactions, play Open.

At this stage, it would be inappropriate for FD to reward or penalize one mode over another. If they ever choose to do so, they know they will alienate one group of players, that is their prerogative.

 

[SteveLaw]

Now there is something I really disagree with. Why would you "cater" to something without proving it true first?

Agreed, but then this thread has no reason to exist at all in the first place.

This thread has existed (in two parts) since before the game was even released and the same few perceptions have been debated for two years. Yes, currently they are being refined and focused through the Power Play lens, like the Community Goal lens before it and whatever "justifications" existed before that. FD continue to advocate the mode system as it is.

There was an outcry about the unfairness of the modes on Community Goals. So much so that FD opened the Vox Populi thread to gather evidence. Since that they released Power Play across all modes - initially even with a very similar ladder to CGs. They either don't care or they don't see the perceived issues as actual issues.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

What I don't really get is why you think this extra mode / option will be full of players? Half the time pro Open players come on here complaining that there's no-one in Open because they are all 'hiding' in Solo, so why would an Open only option suddenly be chock full of players?

I'd have thought that all the hard core Open players are already in Open, and those numbers are bolstered by occasional Open players. Presumably an Open only option would lose the occasional players making it even more of a ghost town than you say that Open already is.

I only ever play in Open.

I doubt very much, however, if I would join an "Only Open, Like Everr" game mode unless it was that Iron Man concept.


So why would I not join an "Only Open" mode, given that I only ever play in open?

For the simple reason that I'd expect to meet 100% of the eve-tastic intergalactic ego gods, spouting "toughen up, princess", "get out of our space, scrub", "another dumb pubbie, blah blah", "learn to play, blah blah", "never come here again, we have your name, blah blah", "You're on our clan KOS list, blah blah", etc.


Today, in Open Play, I meet and interact with all sorts of players. I help them if they need it, fight them if appropriate, flee from them if required. I never know who I'll meet, or what their background and playstyle is likely to be. But the vast majority are fun, don't trash-talk, don't talk gang crap, and it's great.

I have zero desire to see a game mode where the predominant player type is one who "role-plays a murderous at".


See you in Open... until Iron Man comes along (if ever............)

 

[SteveLaw]

Now there is something I really disagree with. Why would you "cater" to something without proving it true first?

I only ever play in Open.

I doubt very much, however, if I would join an "Only Open, Like Everr" game mode unless it was that Iron Man concept.


So why would I not join an "Only Open" mode, given that I only ever play in open?

For the simple reason that I'd expect to meet 100% of the eve-tastic intergalactic ego gods, spouting "toughen up, princess", "get out of our space, scrub", "another dumb pubbie, blah blah", "learn to play, blah blah", "never come here again, we have your name, blah blah", "You're on our clan KOS list, blah blah", etc.


Today, in Open Play, I meet and interact with all sorts of players. I help them if they need it, fight them if appropriate, flee from them if required. I never know who I'll meet, or what their background and playstyle is likely to be. But the vast majority are fun, don't trash-talk, don't talk gang crap, and it's great.

I have zero desire to see a game mode where the predominant player type is one who "role-plays a murderous at".


See you in Open... until Iron Man comes along (if ever............)

I fully support your reasoning there but out of interest why do you have the exception of "unless it was Ironman"? Wouldn't that be just as likely, if not moreso, to attract the types of players you describe?

 

[CaptainKremmen]

I fully support your reasoning there but out of interest why do you have the exception of "unless it was Ironman"? Wouldn't that be just as likely, if not moreso, to attract the types of players you describe?

Simple! I said way, way back that I'd be up for Iron Man mode, if available. I intend to follow through.

 

[SteveLaw]

Simple! I said way, way back that I'd be up for Iron Man mode, if available. I intend to follow through.

So your desire for Ironman outweighs your distaste for those players it will attract? Hehe.