Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Derath]

Could be and would be are 2 very different things.

Could be, means there is a chance they won't be. Under the current systems, even in an Open only server, that does not mean you will see everyone and be able to find everyone.

33 people travel to Lave, instance cap is 32... what about the odd one out? You won't see them at all.
What if my ping to you is over 1500m/s? The matchmaker would never, ever, ever put us together despite being on the Open only server.

Open only does not mean you see every one who plays.
Oh and no one has hit the 32 player cap yet. Last I heard, 16 was the record.

A small chance > no chance, how much chance do I have of finding the #1 federation bounty for example? He could be playing in the flat above mine in an empty instance and i'd never see him

Edit: I haven't even seen 16 players in an instance, probably 10 is the max.

 

[rckstr]

Ehm, I do not play PP personally, but I read the manual and looked at the PP interface in game. The valid (and planned by Devs) defense against underminig are fortifying missions which can be of course done in Solo. Undermining can be also done in Solo. Nowhere in the PP manual is stated that the right defense against Undermining or Fortifying is player killing, because Devs had in their mind that some Solo/Group players maybe will also play PP and PKing is not a valid defense against them. So there are Undermining-Fortifying missions for all.

It seems that you did not read the PP manual.

You have skipped every argument brought up in the last couple of hours. PP works how it works because of the seperation in Solo/Group/Open. Just to cater every single player no matter of his intentions.
A true scenario like PP would involve fights, it is just the sheer nature of such conflicts. Look back in history. Where in history hostile acts like undermining or expanding have been answered with things like fortifying through delivering stuff? Just because those mechanics have been created doesn't instantly create a proof to "this is the correct mechanic". Especially if you have the nature of such scenario in mind

 

[Faded Glory]

Its not about player population, I actually like how rare it is to find people in open i'm not salty about lack of targets or anything of the sort, its about knowing that everyone had the same rules when playing in the sandbox.

I see. Maybe they will come up with an Iron Man mode then.

Otherwise, to be honest, it's just a game, and not even an inherently competitive one at that, and in the end, whatever mode a player chooses, they have to abide by the core game mechanics / rules.

 

[SteveLaw]

I said "A CHANCE" just pop chaff and scb religously and you can easily wear them down.

Pfft. Easy mode. I don't fit SCB or chaff.

 

[Derath]

I see. Maybe they will come up with an Iron Man mode then.

Otherwise, to be honest, it's just a game, and not even an inherently competitive one at that, and in the end, whatever mode a player chooses, they have to abide by the core game mechanics / rules.

I'd love an Ironman mode, I even heard they were going to add one it was one of the things that encouraged me to get the game, I tried to play the game in a similar spirit and I certainly had alot of fun with the current implementation, I'd just have liked it even more on an Ironman server or something similar.

I don#t get my knickers in a twist about the way it is currently, just wouldn't mind if it was different is all =) different players have different ways.

 

[Cody]

Quite a few users wanted the proposed Ironman mode, so some play self-imposed Ironman - this is dangerous!

 

[SteveLaw]

For the record, because Im getting very tired of this, I play MMO's and Open not for the 'pew pew griefing you' so much as I like to play with my friends.

Excellent. Now tell us why having options for Solo and Group as well as Open interfere with that.

We play Solo because we have no friends? Oh dear.

 

[ianw]

I'm sure its great for the people that just want to pvp, though I can't see how its different to fitting your ship for combat then flying to lave (or wherever the popular hangout is now)

It will ensure fairer fights, which I think is important for somebody like myself, since wings came out my options for pvp are pirate traders, which is obviously stacked hugely in my favour, or fight multiple bounty-hunters/pirates simultaneously, which is obviously deliberately making things difficult. The arena will give a place where people can go and not feel they are being cheesed by wings.

For myself It won't make much difference, I don't really want a seperate arena module I want a server where I know everyone in it was always in open, currently the game feels like open battle.net to me if anyone can remember that from diablo 2, i don't like that. The whole game loses meaning when activities are done without players as it cheapens the experience.

Obviously this is only my opinion, many people are very happy with the current implementation.

Yes - I'd agree about the wings thing - I'm not an experienced PVPer and when I get jumped by a wing it does seem a bit pointless - I survive because I'm in an expensive hardened ship but I can't realistically take on a player wing - especially with the shoot the powerplant from any angle through the hull mechanic.

I think Arena will be fun in it's own way but was a bit disappointed to find it will be entirely separate.

As for PP and CGs the only thing I can think of is some kind of targeted combat hit mechanic - so you get sent to a location in a pre-formed or ad-hoc player wing to intercept an enemy wing/faction/whatever. That way players can get a meaningful PVP interaction - a chance to stop an enemy.

You could use the same mechanics but with NPCs replacing the enemy in group or solo.

That way it remains an optional combat mission in all modes - all modes count and players get to do something meaningful against other players in open which seems to be a huge bone of contention.

No idea if it would work but that's all I've got..

 

[why fi at all]

Least logical? Ok, i'll try again
I try to change the condition of something.
You don't want me to do this.
What i want is:
You are able to stop me from doing this action.
What we have:
I can change the condition because i do it in Solo mode. You have no chance to stop me from doing this, though you could if i would've attempted to change the condition in Open mode. No all you can do is deal with the change i made.
Got it now? no?

Not from that no. How about I try?

Open and Solo players can both influence the game in exactly the same way. Some Open players want to be able to influence it further through the use of force directly against other players.

i think you are not recognizing [at least in your statements] how the phrase "play the way you want to" is seen from his point of view.

in his point of view the only option he has is to compete in a way where he has an extreme advantage and that way is violence.

if he were to compete as an equal he would not be "playing his way".

 

[PavelKCZ]

You have skipped every argument brought up in the last couple of hours. PP works how it works because of the seperation in Solo/Group/Open. Just to cater every single player no matter of his intentions.
A true scenario like PP would involve fights, it is just the sheer nature of such conflicts. Look back in history. Where in history hostile acts like undermining or expanding have been answered with things like fortifying through delivering stuff? Just because those mechanics have been created doesn't instantly create a proof to "this is the correct mechanic". Especially if you have the nature of such scenario in mind

Look, the Power Play was implemented by game developper in the way they think is right for the Open/Solo/Group mix. IMHO it correct and perfectly fits in the fact, that there soon will be a milion of XBox players sharing the same galaxy and same PP, but invisible to PC/Mac players.

Maybe you have some wet dream about another game design, where you will be able to kill other players etc. If so, feel free to make another Kickstart campaign and write your own game. Until this, maybe you should respect the rules of ED, if you are playing this game.

 

[Mouse]

Its not about player population, I actually like how rare it is to find people in open i'm not salty about lack of targets or anything of the sort, its about knowing that everyone had the same rules when playing in the sandbox.

Everyone does have the same rules.. the ONLY difference in open is PVP

 

[SteveLaw]

i think you are not recognizing [at least in your statements] how the phrase "play the way you want to" is seen from his point of view.

in his point of view the only option he has is to compete in a way where he has an extreme advantage and that way is violence.

if he were to compete as an equal he would not be "playing his way".

He has every right, and the ability, to play his way with others who also want to play his way - those who play open. He can't, however, make those who want to play a different way play his way.

You might want to play the game and pretend you are a space dragon, should FD add a space dragon model for your ship (shh) so that everyone can see that you think you are space dragon?

While you are encouraged to play your way, there are some ways to play that just aren't possible in the game that you bought. Being able to shoot everyone is one of those. So is being a space dragon. As is having more than 32 players in an instance.

It is impossible for everyone to play with an extreme advantage over everyone else.

 

[Mouse]

It wouldn't fix any of those things, but it might give them a reason TO fix those things. Matchmaking has gotten consistently worse in my eyes, the few times i've winged up we find it literally impossible to get into an instance with people, even when we know they are there.

If its going to be so poorly supported why bother having open at all, may as well have groups and call it a day

If Open isn't enough of a "reason" building a whole new server would be? And they can only fix so much. a LOT of it is not in FD's control.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Everyone does have the same rules.. the ONLY difference in open is PVP

PvP is not restricted to Open.... The only difference in Open is that we can meet random players in the only unrestricted access game group (sort of a mega-private group with free access).

 

[Faded Glory]

You might want to play the game and pretend you are a space dragon, should FD add a space dragon model for your ship (shh) so that everyone can see that you think you are space dragon?

Until now, I never realized I wanted to be a space dragon and have a space dragon ship...

You've ruined my Sunday.

 

[rckstr]

Look, the Power Play was implemented by game developper in the way they think is right for the Open/Solo/Group mix. IMHO it correct and perfectly fits in the fact, that there soon will be a milion of XBox players sharing the same galaxy and same PP, but invisible to PC/Mac players.

Maybe you have some wet dream about another game design, where you will be able to kill other players etc. If so, feel free to make another Kickstart campaign and write your own game. Until this, maybe you should respect the rules of ED, if you are playing this game.

And if Fdev would have implemented to solve conflicts by just donating credits to a system until it flips it would be ok too, right?

Maybe they should implement a gameplay mechanic like in cookie clicker? that sounds fun too! -.-

 

[SteveLaw]

Until now, I never realized I wanted to be a space dragon and have a space dragon ship...

You've ruined my Sunday.

Stop playing my way man!

 

[Lestenio]

And just to give you another argument for my point of view.
Solo mode takes away a gameplay experience that would have been created without it. Without Solo, situations would emerge that are hard or even impossible to conquer. Without Solo i would have to face true danger out in space while i am doing actions that are hostile to someone else. Without Solo i'd have to think about my next move because it might be my last. Without Solo i'd have to support others because they would suffer. Without Solo i'd have a more dynamic and living galaxy.
Should i continue?
And now tell me that i am still able to enjoy the game as i want.

Without solo you'd have less players. FD would have less customers and open would be even quieter and you'd still be moaning.
People are not suddenly going to embrace playing a game they don't like, they'll not buy it, or won't play it.

 

[Space Dandy]

And just to give you another argument for my point of view.
Solo mode takes away a gameplay experience that would have been created without it. Without Solo, situations would emerge that are hard or even impossible to conquer. Without Solo i would have to face true danger out in space while i am doing actions that are hostile to someone else. Without Solo i'd have to think about my next move because it might be my last. Without Solo i'd have to support others because they would suffer. Without Solo i'd have a more dynamic and living galaxy.
Should i continue?
And now tell me that i am still able to enjoy the game as i want.

Without solo there would be no game thus no open (or pvp) argument for you talk about...

As SteveLaw points out, and I have said before, if you simply forced Open, those who don't want to play the game that way would not magically appear there, they'd go and find a different game to play.

The people who want to play in Open are already there. Play with them.

Indeed.


The whole solo, group and open has been argued ad nauseam since betas and things have come out as they are now because that how it's most fair for all groups whether they be solo, group or open.

Any kind of restriction like some mention here would not change much except there would be less people paying and playing the game thus less resources for future development.

Really the only reason this thread is "OPEN" is so mods can close or merge others made about the same subject......

 

[Mouse]

PvP is not restricted to Open.... The only difference in Open is that we can meet random players in the only unrestricted access game group (sort of a mega-private group with free access).

Yeah , I said it wrong, And if anyone thinks I am against PVP I am not, never have been, I'm against PVPing against those who don't want to.