Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Stewart_]

When 'Iron Man' is released, I'll get more pop corn.

You think solo vs open is bad enough, you'll get the Iron Man players whining because there isn't enough 'punishment' when Open / Solo players die, and these modes should be considered cheating!

"Open should be nerfed"
"Encourage people into Ironman from Open"
"Iron Man how FD wanted Elite"
"Iron Man is the superior game mode"

blah blah blah

Yes, Pop corn will be needed.


:-D

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Now imagine if you had a football game where some players were off to the side, having entire fields all to themselves, scoring goals between posts guarded by a scarecrow. That's what it looks like right now.

Actually, I could imagine it: Toronto FC would still suck and fail year after year failing to qualify for the playoffs, despite having one of the highest salary bill in the MLS.

 

[Cmdr Alison]

The last 2 days Khaka.
Since FD throws out the big bucks are there hordes of new pirates with their new (big) ships. I would do that too. But for me as a trader with my T6? I do not want to solo. But the game shows me a big sign: go somewhere else, go into solo. The game does not need you, you're less than a victim. Ohh an FDL Wing ... boooom. Ohh a Clipper, beautiful ship, boooom. No chance is simply no chance. Form a team? With what? Other traders? Two or three traders with a fighter? Suicide Squad. Or maybe with 3 fighters to deliver 100 guns, hmmm .....

Sorry for whinning

 

[Meritz]

The last 2 days Khaka.
Since FD throws out the big bucks are there hordes of new pirates with their new (big) ships. I would do that too. But for me as a trader with my T6? I do not want to solo. But the game shows me a big sign: go somewhere else, go into solo. The game does not need you, you're less than a victim. Ohh an FDL Wing ... boooom. Ohh a Clipper, beautiful ship, boooom. No chance is simply no chance. Form a team? With what? Other traders? Two or three traders with a fighter? Suicide Squad. Or maybe with 3 fighters to deliver 100 guns, hmmm .....

Sorry for whinning

If you want to run through pirate infested waters in Open, forming a convoy is your best bet. Yes, with other traders, but that requires that each of you has means to fit a combat hauler (Imperial Clipper, Python and Anaconda are the best, with a well equipped T9 "battle cow" also an option, but that one requires a fair bit of skill to pull off). Which does get expensive. But that's what trading is for, big monies.

If you can't fit and put together such ships, and still want to play trader in Open, you have to find another trading route. Or if you want to play daredevil, you can resort to trading rare goods in something that doesn't look like an obvious hauler, such as a combat fitted Cobra (interdictors and kill warrant scanners are not something traders often fit and chances are you won't be such a big target as a T6 or Adder or a Cobra with no shields).

 

[Cody]

DDSS - ho-hum!

 

[Loriath]

I want to do the math in this Thread.


Frontier, follow along with me.

Take the Number of players playing the game in all modes. = X

Now take the number of players that are registered on the forums. = Y

Now take the number of Individuals complaining on the Forums. Just the individuals themselves, not the number of posts they make. = Z

Now Lets do the Math
Y/X = FP = Forum Percentage aka: Percentage of players that are active here.
Pretty small Number, Huh?

Now take Z/FP = PoC =Percentage of complaints.
Look close at that Percentage. Is it large? Small? You now have all the numbers you need.

Now take the FP numbers, and the PoC numbers, and put them on one of those big whiteboards all companies have in their meeting rooms. Write them REALLY LARGE.

Have you done all that? Good. Now here is the hardest part that we have done so far.

Erase them. Yes, you heard me. Erase them.
Why? Because the small percentage of players that ever register for the forums are a small insignificant and VERY vocal group.

You don't need to listen to them redesign the game YOU made, that's right, YOU made, not them. Continue on your course making the game you planned all along. That BIG number of people who are actively playing the game? Those are the numbers that really count. If you do something that makes that number shrink, then you have an issue.

We have 3 ways to play, and some simple rules. You can play open, group, or solo. You have an economy model that effect all three modes. You have ships that are available to everyone. You have weapons that work the same for everyone. You have insurance that is there for everyone. You have ways to earn credits for everyone.

Are there things that need to be checked and balanced? Of Course. That's normal in any game. Hell, it's normal in the Real World.

There are a bunch of very worked up people here that are telling you what to do. But perspective says that 5 people yelling in a room are a lot louder than 200 people saying nothing in the same room.

Make the game, make changes to the game, but don't let a bunch of screaming people telling you to change YOUR game by drowning out the silence of the others that are not represented here be the only voices you hear. The others may not be yelling, but they are breathing.

And when they stop breathing, its game over.

 

[Globusdiablo]

....Erase them. Yes, you heard me. Erase them.
Why? Because the small percentage of players that ever register for the forums are a small insignificant and VERY vocal group.....

......Make the game, make changes to the game, but don't let a bunch of screaming people telling you to change YOUR game by drowning out the silence of the others that are not represented here be the only voices you hear. The others may not be yelling, but they are breathing.

And when they stop breathing, its game over.

Good post.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

The AI global difficulty has to take into account that not all players have finely honed combat skills (i.e. half of players have average or below average combat skills) - otherwise a large proportion of players would simply be put off.

No. The algorithms that spawn NPCs need to be cognisant of the rating of the player, so that the likelihood of meeting NPCs vastly superior to them is reduced. Reduced, not zeroised. The skill level of the AI should reflect the ranking of the NPC, so that an Elite NPC is really a high level fighter. And the player needs to play sensibly - a mostly harmless in a sidewinder should not go near an anarchy system, and avoid strong USSs, etc.

 

[Sim Maker]

I want to do the math in this Thread.


Frontier, follow along with me.

Take the Number of players playing the game in all modes. = X

Now take the number of players that are registered on the forums. = Y

Now take the number of Individuals complaining on the Forums. Just the individuals themselves, not the number of posts they make. = Z

Now Lets do the Math
Y/X = FP = Forum Percentage aka: Percentage of players that are active here.
Pretty small Number, Huh?

Now take Z/FP = PoC =Percentage of complaints.
Look close at that Percentage. Is it large? Small? You now have all the numbers you need.

Now take the FP numbers, and the PoC numbers, and put them on one of those big whiteboards all companies have in their meeting rooms. Write them REALLY LARGE.

Have you done all that? Good. Now here is the hardest part that we have done so far.

Erase them. Yes, you heard me. Erase them.
Why? Because the small percentage of players that ever register for the forums are a small insignificant and VERY vocal group.

You don't need to listen to them redesign the game YOU made, that's right, YOU made, not them. Continue on your course making the game you planned all along. That BIG number of people who are actively playing the game? Those are the numbers that really count. If you do something that makes that number shrink, then you have an issue.

We have 3 ways to play, and some simple rules. You can play open, group, or solo. You have an economy model that effect all three modes. You have ships that are available to everyone. You have weapons that work the same for everyone. You have insurance that is there for everyone. You have ways to earn credits for everyone.

Are there things that need to be checked and balanced? Of Course. That's normal in any game. Hell, it's normal in the Real World.

There are a bunch of very worked up people here that are telling you what to do. But perspective says that 5 people yelling in a room are a lot louder than 200 people saying nothing in the same room.

Make the game, make changes to the game, but don't let a bunch of screaming people telling you to change YOUR game by drowning out the silence of the others that are not represented here be the only voices you hear. The others may not be yelling, but they are breathing.

And when they stop breathing, its game over.

LOL.......wow, nice rant..........
.
OOI, if you check the DEV posts, they seem to be leaning more toward the Open rewards type of game play, and a slight nerf to solo or group modes......
.
So, when saying that FD should "erase" all the problem posters that don't represent the whole.....be CAREFUL what you wish for, you just might find it is you that's gets rubbed out..... 400,000 sold, and 5000 in Mobius?........Careful fella.....

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I know, which is why I don't think making AI as skilled as players is a good idea, even if they could do it, which I seriously doubt.

Completely disagree.

A better solution would be to flesh out the structure of the community goals and get rid of grinding as the only means to score in them.

This is not a 'better solution', though it is desirable alongside sorting out the AI (which Sarah Jane is still working on).

 

[ianw]

OOI, if you check the DEV posts, they seem to be leaning more toward the Open rewards type of game play, and a slight nerf to solo or group modes......

I'd wait until something happens before getting too hopeful and calling it.

Take a look at all the stuff in the DDF that isn't in - or stuff since such as the transponder thing that Sandro can be quoted as saying he was leaning towards at one point, that never made it either.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Glad to hear of these coming changes -- they sound like a step in the right direction.

I firmly support people's ability to play in a solo/group mode if they want, but the mutliplayer world shouldn't just be sidestepped for an unfair advantage -- bypassing blockades etc willy nilly. We see this so much in the Lave area, players trading and turning in missions who will travel/trade/grind NPC's in solo, then log in at the station so they can gain their precious 'elite' ranks, then log back out to solo before leaving the no fire zone. stuff like this is to the detriment of the game. I think a mode switching cooldown timer of 10, 20 minutes is something that should seriously be considered, or else you will just see players 'pop' into open to do their station business, then pop right back out again.

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Take a look at all the stuff in the DDF that isn't in - or stuff since such as the transponder thing that Sandro can be quoted as saying he was leaning towards at one point, that never made it either.

The DDF's are at this point, ancient history. I'm sure some ideas presented in them will happen, but people should really stop treating them as gospel.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Glad to hear of these coming changes -- they sound like a step in the right direction.

I firmly support people's ability to play in a solo/group mode if they want, but the mutliplayer world shouldn't just be sidestepped for an unfair advantage -- bypassing blockades etc willy nilly. We see this so much in the Lave area, players trading and turning in missions who will travel/trade/grind NPC's in solo, then log in at the station so they can gain their precious 'elite' ranks, then log back out to solo before leaving the no fire zone. stuff like this is to the detriment of the game. I think a mode switching cooldown timer of 10, 20 minutes is something that should seriously be considered, or else you will just see players 'pop' into open to do their station business, then pop right back out again.

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The DDF's are at this point, ancient history. I'm sure some ideas presented in them will happen, but people should really stop treating them as gospel.

It will be interesting to see exactly what changes (if any) are proposed - as I read Sandro's posts, nothing has been decided on yet.

.... and swiftly on to the next bone of contention (for some) - group switching....

Are the DDFs really so ancient when the recent implementation of Wings brings to the game what was discussed as the player "Alliance"? It would seem that the DDF threads are still quite relevant.

 

[Sim Maker]

I'd wait until something happens before getting too hopeful and calling it.

Take a look at all the stuff in the DDF that isn't in - or stuff since such as the transponder thing that Sandro can be quoted as saying he was leaning towards at one point, that never made it either.

I will remain hopeful, as the DEVs have listened to the community in the past. The recent price drops to ships and buffs to other careers being a case in point. They seem to listen. And there is an obvious problem with competitive community goals. Which they say they are looking in to. Good enough for me at this stage to remain "happy", unlike some of the angry posts above.....
.
I play in Solo btw............but I can see the fundamental problem of having competing events using different modes. You may as well have a swimming race. Open has to swim, you get to use a speedboat......of course, it is nonsense and the DEVs will act.....eventually.
.
And with the Xbox and Playstation users coming, SpaceTruckers are just going to have to up their game or go trade in Boring systems..........The days of taking an un-shielded T-9 in to a WAR ZONE....are coming to an end...and rightly so.......

 

[ianw]

The DDF's are at this point, ancient history. I'm sure some ideas presented in them will happen, but people should really stop treating them as gospel.

Which is precisely my point - even things that were part of an official design approach haven't made it in. And if you look around you'll see the forum is littered with ideas per/during/and post DDF that haven't made it.

I was simply reminding people that things have often been "leaned towards" by FD and ended up on the shelf.

They'll tinker with stuff - probably - but they are kind of boxed in by many design decisions that would be very expensive if not impossible (without starting with a fresh build) to make that much of a change to.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

I only mean that they should not be treated as the written word. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. FD should be steering the game based on how people are actually playing it, and what they actually seem to want (ie look at the metrics before the form shouting tbh - my own ideas included) and to engage with and support forms of emergent gameplay (there is a lot). The DDF was written before this was really a game, it's now had contact with the enemy and we're seeing the light through the cracks in the wall.. Any future game mechanic changes should be based on whats actually happening, not what ED hoped might happen before they released the game.

 

[gary.brain]

I have a better solution.

Create a single instance ( oh we have that already ).

Now create a single Entry on the Loading page called...

"Online"

then add a selection to the right of the Button called

"ignore all"
"with friends list"
"all"


problem solved..........

No open no group no solo, just who you want to see......

its all about play of words..........

 

[ianw]

I only mean that they should not be treated as the written word. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. FD should be steering the game based on how people are actually playing it, and what they actually seem to want (ie look at the metrics before the form shouting tbh - my own ideas included) and to engage with and support forms of emergent gameplay (there is a lot). The DDF was written before this was really a game, it's now had contact with the enemy and we're seeing the light through the cracks in the wall.. Any future game mechanic changes should be based on whats actually happening, not what ED hoped might happen before they released the game.

Well that we can agree on. They are the only people with oversight of both the whole plan (including bits that may or may not be coming), the knowledge of their capabilities and the live stats.

 

[Loriath]

LOL.......wow, nice rant..........
.
OOI, if you check the DEV posts, they seem to be leaning more toward the Open rewards type of game play, and a slight nerf to solo or group modes......
.
So, when saying that FD should "erase" all the problem posters that don't represent the whole.....be CAREFUL what you wish for, you just might find it is you that's gets rubbed out..... 400,000 sold, and 5000 in Mobius?........Careful fella.....

Thanks. I would love to know what percentage are playing open and which are in the Solo/Group. Might be surprising

Frontier can change whatever they want. What I am bothered by the people whining that open is the only way to play and that Group and Solo should be removed.

They can adjust Community Goals however they want. If they don't make sense to take part in CG in a certain mode, people won't. Plain and simple. If a solo or group player is told that hauling metal for a new ship in those 2 modes are only going to be worth 1/2 of what open is, then they will not participate. Easy enough to understand. I am, at this point a crap pilot who would have problems taking out a sidewinder with an A rated Vulture So I don't do battles. My CHOICE. And that is all players like me want. A Choice.

I didn't say erase the vocal minority, just to look at the big picture. if you have a large number of players total, and only 5% are registered in the forums, that is a drop in the bucket. Even if 100% of the forum players were calling for the eradication of a game mode, Frontiers numbers will let them know if its the Silent room or the screaming group that tells the story.

I just looked and there are 817 pages in the members list. And I counted 50 per page. Math says 40,850 on the forums. About 12%. Take how many are calling for the nerfs its a very, very small percentage.

 

[Scimiter]

I want to do the math in this Thread.


Frontier, follow along with me.

Take the Number of players playing the game in all modes. = X

Now take the number of players that are registered on the forums. = Y

Now take the number of Individuals complaining on the Forums. Just the individuals themselves, not the number of posts they make. = Z

Now Lets do the Math
Y/X = FP = Forum Percentage aka: Percentage of players that are active here.
Pretty small Number, Huh?

Now take Z/FP = PoC =Percentage of complaints.
Look close at that Percentage. Is it large? Small? You now have all the numbers you need.

Now take the FP numbers, and the PoC numbers, and put them on one of those big whiteboards all companies have in their meeting rooms. Write them REALLY LARGE.

Have you done all that? Good. Now here is the hardest part that we have done so far.

Erase them. Yes, you heard me. Erase them.
Why? Because the small percentage of players that ever register for the forums are a small insignificant and VERY vocal group.

You don't need to listen to them redesign the game YOU made, that's right, YOU made, not them. Continue on your course making the game you planned all along. That BIG number of people who are actively playing the game? Those are the numbers that really count. If you do something that makes that number shrink, then you have an issue.

We have 3 ways to play, and some simple rules. You can play open, group, or solo. You have an economy model that effect all three modes. You have ships that are available to everyone. You have weapons that work the same for everyone. You have insurance that is there for everyone. You have ways to earn credits for everyone.

Are there things that need to be checked and balanced? Of Course. That's normal in any game. Hell, it's normal in the Real World.

There are a bunch of very worked up people here that are telling you what to do. But perspective says that 5 people yelling in a room are a lot louder than 200 people saying nothing in the same room.

Make the game, make changes to the game, but don't let a bunch of screaming people telling you to change YOUR game by drowning out the silence of the others that are not represented here be the only voices you hear. The others may not be yelling, but they are breathing.

And when they stop breathing, its game over.

I agree with what you are saying and I dont think FD will be influenced by the whining minority, at the time they should be listening to the players, some of whom do make good points and come up with good ideas, but FD should then make their own judgements as I'm sure they will, the changes FD have made to the game up to now, I believe have been correct and have benifitted the game immensly.
I play in OPEN but I believe the status quo should remain regarding the three modes of play.

 

[Loriath]

I have a better solution.

Create a single instance ( oh we have that already ).

Now create a single Entry on the Loading page called...

"Online"

then add a selection to the right of the Button called

"ignore all"
"with friends list"
"all"


problem solved..........

No open no group no solo, just who you want to see......

its all about play of words..........

lol I concur.

Developer: Now Introducing Chocolate Pudding!

Group One: WE DON'T WANT CHOCOLATE
Group Two: WE DON'T WANT PUDDING

Developer: It's really just Milk with some Food Coloring

Group One and Two: WE LOVE MILK