Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Garagiste]

I play almost exclusively in solo, for many reasons. None of which are so that I can show up later in open with a tooled up 'conda - hell even an Asp is a distant dream ATM.
Main reason is that based on my NPC combat to date (2 bounties - which nearly covered what I spent in ammo getting them), I can't hit a cow's backside with a banjo.
Seeing as how that's unlikey to be affected by having a massive ship, what possible reason would I have for showing up in open in such a massive and expensive target? If I do pop my head up in open looking for some PVP, it's not going to be in anything more expensive than a Cobra, and I'm still going to suck and adopt Brave Sir Robin strategies.
Totally with Spivey here, can't see how it makes the slightest difference to anybody in open play how I got a ship in solo that you're unlikely to ever see in open.
There may be some using solo for such a plan, I suspect very few and the plan will likely end in tears when they meet experienced PVP players anyway.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Seriously, is there a barn around here somewhere missing some bales? Ok, your points one for one.

It isn't impossible to meet another player, though, like it would be in solo, is it?

No, it is not impossible. It is also not impossible that I will fall under a bus tomorrow. However, the chances of such a thing happening are small enough that I take the chance every day. This is one of those cases. My evidence for saying so? Ok, well, for one there is the fact that I haven't seen another player since release. there are also other posts saying the same thing all over the forums. But the biggest piece of evidence for the fact that Open is very under-populated is the fact that this very thread even exists.

The assertion is that open is less safe than solo. Your comment that you have managed to jump through enough hoops to make yourself reasonably safe does not refute this point....

Where on earth have I made the assertion that Open is less safe than Solo? The only thing I have asserted is that there is as much... oh all right ALMOST as much chance of never meeting another player in either mode.

... As I said, for a true and not disingenuous comparison we must compare like-for-like...

Actually no (and this is where the strawman comes in). It is only you who have brought 'like for like' comparisons into the argument. The original proposition only concerns itself with the general terms of 'Solo' and 'Open' and already contains the prerequisite that leaving the core systems is essential. *whisper* Because this is where all the Pvp players lay in wait. *wink* Remember the part where I say... "...there is no difference between saving up and buying a mega ship in Solo, and saving up and buying a mega ship in a remote part of Open?"

Even you would not be so mendacious as to suggest that it is just as safe to be in Lave in open as it is to be in Lave in solo?

"Even you..." Wow, bordering on the personal insult there but I'll let it go. No, I would not suggest that, but as that is the strawman you are trying to raise, I don't need to.

Bansidhe & Co.... refuting sophists since 1972.

Joe Spivey & Co. Exposing superciliousness since 1974

 

[Drunk Si]

Many things are 'possible' in real life, in games and in Elite Dangerous, worrying about extremely unlikely events is not healthy in my opinion, especially when, on the very remote chance it does happen you will be none the wiser how that ship and its upgrades were attained anyway.

Well I'm not climbing the walls worried about shark attacks. I just think from a game balancing point of view, this being a game after all and a multiplayer one at that, it's a crap balancing decision. Just like in cod there's a gun that has its fire rate tied to your framerate, I don't lose any sleep over it but I do think it's .

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

Why on Earth would I tell you.

I'm playing Open. This means (according to you) I am playing the risky Open Play style.

Horsepuppies.

The last 2 weeks I've relocated to Lave. It's chock full o' players. You know how many times I have been interdicted by players? Once. He had no bounty, I had no cargo. We had a chat.


Yeah, what do I know? I only played both types of play, so I only have first hand experience of what I'm talking about.

In solo nobody can be killed by another player. For open to be equally safe the same must be true.

For your argument to be true you would have to claim that nobody had ever been killed by another player.

An obvious nonsense.

----

This would be simple to prove.

FD - any chance you could let us know how many players ships have been lost in solo and how many ships have been lost in open. For an accurate comparison we would also need the average numbers of players in each mode since release else, as I understand it, it would skew the results in favour of open. I don't want that, even though it would work in my favour, so we would need to compare the data pro rata.

My money is on more ships destroyed per capita in open than in solo.

 

[Theodrid]

Well I'm not climbing the walls worried about shark attacks. I just think from a game balancing point of view, this being a game after all and a multiplayer one at that, it's a crap balancing decision. Just like in cod there's a gun that has its fire rate tied to your framerate, I don't lose any sleep over it but I do think it's .

If this were a big issue, if there was evidence to suggest it was a big issue I would worry about it, (in as much as you can worry about a game), if many were doing it, gloating about it etc etc, I would stand with you, but trying to fix a near non existent problem? - well, I do not get it.

 

[Zenicetus]

To claim that solo and open are equally safe is just a deliberate falsehood. There is a huge difference.

Okay, let's take a different tack. I disagree about the "huge difference" but for the sake of argument, let's accept that as given. So let's assume as a corollary that it's easier to make money and gear up your ship in Solo mode. I don't agree, but let's accept it for the sake of discussion.

So what?

What impact does that have on your game? Do you actually expect to meet many of these fearsome Solo players? Do you think you couldn't join with a friend or two in a Wing and take them down? Doesn't it add more players in Open, and isn't that what all the PvP players are pining for?

If that tooled-up player chooses to remain in Open, then after a few months of fighting, earning credits, and replacing ships, it won't matter how they got their first ship that made them comfortable enough to enter Open mode. Now the player base in Open is larger, and it's a win for everyone.

 

[Taimaru]

The joke about this whole "Solo vs Open vs Groups" debate is that you have more chance of NPCs wanting to kill you than players, lol.

 

[Joe Spivey]

I really do wish we could get some sort of official statement on the likelihood of the current system being changed, just because it makes my head hurt to have this same discussion over and over and over again, but I can't stop for fear that Frontier will grease the squeaky wheel if there is no counter resistance.

Are we actually fighting for something here, or are we just being thrown into a pit for the mods amusement and to keep the forum tidy?

All we are doing is refuting false assumptions and repeating what the company has said. Remember that the burden of responsibility for providing evidence lays with the person positing the change in the status quo.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

strawman

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Stewart_]

I really do wish we could get some sort of official statement on the likelihood of the current system being changed, just because it makes my head hurt to have this same discussion over and over and over again, but I can't stop for fear that Frontier will grease the squeaky wheel if there is no counter resistance.

Are we actually fighting for something here, or are we just being thrown into a pit for the mods amusement and to keep the forum tidy?

Personally I don't see the need for an official statement. There's a minority of forum posters thinking something is wrong with the status-quo purely because they want everyone in Open.

Even if there was a statement, the discussion wouldn't end. There would be a discussion about the statement and then go back to "open" vs "solo" topic.

 

[Beetlebum]

No, it is not impossible. It is also not impossible that I will fall under a bus tomorrow. However, the chances of such a thing happening are small enough that I take the chance every day. This is one of those cases. My evidence for saying so? Ok, well, for one there is the fact that I haven't seen another player since release.

Why do we have a solo mode then?

 

[Joe Spivey]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I am using it in the sense that you are creating a related but subtly different argument that you can easily defeat and so not answer the real argument. That may be oversimplification but it suffices to explain the most common definition.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Why do we have a solo mode then?

.... because that's the way that Frontier pitched the game, over two years ago.

 

[ianw]

In solo nobody can be killed by another player. For open to be equally safe the same must be true.

For your argument to be true you would have to claim that nobody had ever been killed by another player.

An obvious nonsense.

----

This would be simple to prove.

FD - any chance you could let us know how many players ships have been lost in solo and how many ships have been lost in open. For an accurate comparison we would also need the average numbers of players in each mode since release else, as I understand it, it would skew the results in favour of open. I don't want that, even though it would work in my favour, so we would need to compare the data pro rata.

My money is on more ships destroyed per capita in open than in solo.

The thing is - as it stands it's very easy in open (even in Lave where I am right now) to avoid player/NPC combat - No need to combat log or switch to solo.

I was doing it since open was there - when I needed to.

For example when I was trading rares for over a week in a Cobra with no shields.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Why do we have a solo mode then?

For the same reason we have the other modes, to provide choice. So that more players can play the game how they want to play it, when they want to play it and (as far as FD can make it so) with who they want to play with.

 

[Gibbonici]

How will you save up for the mega ship in a remote part of the Open galaxy? As I understand things it gets quite unpopulated once you get far enough out to avoid other players. From the exploration threads I have read it would seem that the stations don't exist once you get so far out, so no trading. I have been informed that the NPCs thin out and stop appearing so that would negate bounty hunting and piracy. This leaves only exploration as a career path and in order to sell your data don't you need to come back to explored space?

So no, it isn't as easy as you insist on trying to make it appear.

People are talking from experience on this. There are hundreds of people on my friends list who play in Open and have never been attacked by another player. PvPers are not everywhere. This is partly due to the size of space, partly due to the instancing/matchmaking and mostly due to design.

If these threads prove anything it's that Other Game Dissociation Syndrome is a thing.

 

[Beetlebum]

.... because that's the way that Frontier pitched the game, over two years ago.

Is this the only "argument"?

 

[Dabba]

Is this the only "argument"?

Really it is the only argument needed, since removing Solo now would be a blatant bait and switch and they'd get sued.

But additionally there are the people with unstable or slow internet connections who can play Solo but would not be able to play in Open.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Is this the only "argument"?

It's a statement of fact, not an argument.

The fact is that over 25,000 backers liked the stated game design contained in the Kickstarter pitch enough to back the game with sufficient funds to exceed the £1,250,000 goal comfortably.

 

[Beetlebum]

For the same reason we have the other modes, to provide choice. So that more players can play the game how they want to play it, when they want to play it and (as far as FD can make it so) with who they want to play with.

But if there is no difference between solo and open in the opportunity to avoid other players, where exactly is the choice? And what speaks against another choice: A mode for the players where switching is not possible?