Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Lokus Midgard]

It only affects players who want to get involved in it. Solo players would avoid it, even if they were somehow forced into open play. That's the nature of the beast. If they want to be involved in community goals, then they wouldn't be solo-playing, right?

I only ever open-play, but I've got zero interest in heavy combat until I can afford to be better outfitted in general. So, I, likewise, am avoiding the events in Lugh, even though I 'qualify' for involvement, so to speak.

 

[atak2]

Wow - the mods must be off the ball - surely this thread should be merged into solo vs open by now?

Lol, the problem is virtually every topic I see comes down to Solo affecting Open and vice versa and I predict that these issues will keep coming up. Really the mods keep shoving this issue under the rug but it will keep coming back.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

It only affects players who want to get involved in it. Solo players would avoid it, even if they were somehow forced into open play. That's the nature of the beast. If they want to be involved in community goals, then they wouldn't be solo-playing, right?

I only ever open-play, but I've got zero interest in heavy combat until I can afford to be better outfitted in general. So, I, likewise, am avoiding the events in Lugh, even though I 'qualify' for involvement, so to speak.

I agree with this, we won't shift people from solo to open.

You do realise however people in solo are still impacting the "community goals"? In fact they have far more of an impact, as they can farm more and PvP kills give equal credits to NPC kills.

*And I'm saying that as someone who farmed himself to the top 5% today in solo (for military intel).

 

[Dave1235]

<snip>

Thanks for answering point by point, I actually feel like I just entered the twilight zone, we suddenly seem to agree on a lot of things (are you a hypnotist lol ).

I am glad that the PK had a bug, the "special place" should be the last resort, FD have already said their solution is to lock people with bounty's into open, I think it is great that they intend do it that way & let the BH's teach the PK's the error of their ways, I also agree with "And of course, always give a way out, even if a very slow one", not too slow though, we do need to remember many people will buy the game with zero research, it seems quite common these days, and make mistakes, again a balancing nightmare.

I am sure FD will get it right, there is a lot of info out there from dev posts, dev diarys, DDF, press interviews etc, most people have a decent idea where FD are heading, some don't and will always complain, that's life.

Lets see what the next few updates bring, I am looking forward to them. FD are listening and I am sure they will do everything they can to make all the roles economically viable. It wont be tomorrow but I am in no great rush to finish this game, geez I have been playing ~ 9 months and I have barely started. I don't expect to see "game over, you have won" for quite a few years & I doubt I will.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

I didn't think community goals would have any cross-fertilisation with solo-mode. Sounds like a code issue.

Either way, if that's true, that's the price Frontier pay for not giving a true off-line single-player experience. Solo players shouldn't be blamed or punished for that.

Although, technically, it shouldn't really matter....The events in Lugh are about fictional factions and all. Whether you're facing off against an NPC or human pilot, it's still a valid kill.

 

[obliterator]

Has nothing to with being afraid. When you don't play Solo, does that mean you are afraid of Solo? No, you just like Open more. And other People like Solo more. And other like Group more. And other like switching depending on there mood.

Its really quite simple, People just play Game the way they have the most fun with it. There is no Superior and only true way of playing ED, open is not that and Solo/Group is it not. The Idea that "All People should play the Game XYZ because I say thats the best way to play it" is just silly.

Sorry, I don't buy it. The only difference between both is that one has a higher level of risk. There is virtually no other reason to play solo other than the reassurance that you won't get attacked by players. People are naturally attracted to the path of least resistance. Doesn't mean it's the best option for them.

Edit: I say we should give people a choice - but a definitive one. You want to progress in solo? You stay on solo. If what you said is true, and people are really not afraid of open and only play solo because it's what they like, then they'll have no reason to be against it whatsoever. For those who are too afraid but still want to play in open with their fully kitted ships, however, that's another story.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

Sorry, I don't buy it. The only difference between both is that one has a higher level of risk. There is virtually no other reason to play solo other than the reassurance that you won't get attacked by players.

People are naturally attracted to the path of least resistance. Doesn't mean it's the best option for them.

I'd disagree with that... I've only ever been interdicted by NPCs, so, my degree of risk has been no different from someone in solo-mode. And those who are in it have their reasons for wanting to avoid interaction in general. I know I've been in multi-player games and sometimes got frustrated by or annoyed with someone on the same server, wanting an option for 'skirmish' where none exists, purely for that reason.

Some people might somehow view it as 'safer', but that's not the reason why many people are choosing it. Quite honestly, if ED offered an off-line mode, I'd have probably gone exclusively into that, for those kinds of reasons. I don't like being accosted by idiots, is the bottom line. Doesn't matter if they're able to attack me or not. Doesn't even matter if I graduate to a Python and they're name-calling or ramming in a Sidewinder. I don't want to have to deal with it. I remember 'griefers' in Second Life and have no desire to be in the same living space as them, honestly.

With that said, I'm in open-play and that's how I'll stay, unless something changes.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

I didn't think community goals would have any cross-fertilisation with solo-mode. Sounds like a code issue.

Either way, if that's true, that's the price Frontier pay for not giving a true off-line single-player experience. Solo players shouldn't be blamed or punished for that.

Although, technically, it shouldn't really matter....The events in Lugh are about fictional factions and all. Whether you're facing off against an NPC or human pilot, it's still a valid kill.

It's not a code issue, I'm presuming they are scared to de-link the two modes or to avoid giving solo players certain events after the whole "no offline mode" thing.

And no, solo players shouldn't be blamed or punished. While it is available I abuse solo for farming purposes probably more than anybody, in the hope that one day ED becomes a "real" universe and my credits actually have a use.

That said, they have a choice between things remaining as they are where open has very little meaning and is just an arcade-style zone people visit to lose the ships they farmed in solo... or they can limit the transfer of assets between the two modes. Realistically it's pretty much the only option then have, if they don't do it I suspect quite a few players who came here for a sandbox MMO will simply leave once they realise it isn't going to change and get bored.

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I'd disagree with that... I've only ever been interdicted by NPCs, so, my degree of risk has been no different from someone in solo-mode. And those who are in it have their reasons for wanting to avoid interaction in general. I know I've been in multi-player games and sometimes got frustrated by or annoyed with someone on the same server, wanting an option for 'skirmish' where none exists, purely for that reason.

Some people might somehow view it as 'safer', but that's not the reason why many people are choosing it. Quite honestly, if ED offered an off-line mode, I'd have probably gone exclusively into that, for those kinds of reasons. I don't like being accosted by idiots, is the bottom line. Doesn't matter if they're able to attack me or not. Doesn't even matter if I graduate to a Python and they're name-calling or ramming in a Sidewinder. I don't want to have to deal with it. I remember 'griefers' in Second Life and haveno desire to be in the same living space as them, honestly.

With that said, I'm in open-play and that's how I'll stay, unless something changes.

What is the difference between being interdicted by an NPC, and by a player? Other than the player being more challenging, ofc.

 

[Stewart_]

High time open players let solo players play elite how they want.

You very rarely see solo players dictate how those in open should play Elite.

I could play in open and in my instance never see anyone else - aka solo.

 

[obliterator]

I'd disagree with that... I've only ever been interdicted by NPCs, so, my degree of risk has been no different from someone in solo-mode. And those who are in it have their reasons for wanting to avoid interaction in general. I know I've been in multi-player games and sometimes got frustrated by or annoyed with someone on the same server, wanting an option for 'skirmish' where none exists, purely for that reason.

Some people might somehow view it as 'safer', but that's not the reason why many people are choosing it. Quite honestly, if ED offered an off-line mode, I'd have probably gone exclusively into that, for those kinds of reasons. I don't like being accosted by idiots, is the bottom line. Doesn't matter if they're able to attack me or not. Doesn't even matter if I graduate to a Python and they're name-calling or ramming in a Sidewinder. I don't want to have to deal with it. I remember 'griefers' in Second Life and have no desire to be in the same living space as them, honestly.

With that said, I'm in open-play and that's how I'll stay, unless something changes.

So you would be okay with separated modes?

High time open players let solo players play elite how they want.

You very rarely see solo players dictate how those in open should play Elite.

Go read any topic that's about pvp, then come back and tell me that you don't see solo players dictating how those in open should play elite.

-Oh and we don't want to dictate how you play the game; we just want open to be open-exclusive. If you want to play solo I have no problem with that.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

High time open players let solo players play elite how they want.

You very rarely see solo players dictate how those in open should play Elite.

I could play in open and in my instance never see anyone else - aka solo.

Sure, play solo however you want.

But I'd prefer it if people in solo didn't impact on community goals, or have the ability to solo farm bigger ships and pop over to open for pvp/griefing purposes.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

I think the open-play will actually will become much more enticing and appealing when the planetary and multi-crew stuff gets implemented. Right now, as pretty as it can be, we essentially have a modular 'skeleton' of a game. When it becomes the outer space version of 'Fallout 3' and gives us some proper role-playing diversity (beyond a handful of vehicle paint-jobs), people are going to want that rewarding human interaction.

Until then...

And, yes, that's actually my point. The human might be more challenging (or sometimes perhaps easier), but there's not a massive amount of difference. Not enough to justify an exclusive reason for someone solo-playing. Especially now you can get interdicted by whole groups of NPCs. There would typically be more reasons for someone solo-playing than not wanting to engage in PVP.

Edit: Yes, I'd be totally fine with separating the modes. There isn't much point in it until Frontier are willing to let us have off-line, though. Right now, it's a fudged compromise, IMO.

 

[Stewart_]

So you would be okay with separated modes?



Go read any topic that's about pvp, then come back and tell me that you don't see solo players dictating how those in open should play elite.

-Oh and we don't want to dictate how you play the game; we just want open to be open-exclusive. If you want to play solo I have no problem with that.

I have : it's almost always the open players who are b@tch1ng and whining.

 

[Mohrgan]

You just cannot beat the argument that everyone who bought the game should have access to all of it's features. This is about as trivial an argument as can be. Everyone payed the same price, for the same options. If you don;t like others touching your galaxy you should have gotten your own.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

I think the open-play still actually will become much more enticing and appealing when the planetary and multi-crew stuff gets implemented, actually. Right now, as pretty as it can be, we essentially have a modular 'skeleton' of a game. When it ceomes the outer space version of 'Fallout 3' and give us some proper role-playing diversity (beyond a handful of vehicle paint-jobs), people are going to want that rewarding human interaction.

Until then...

And, yes, that's actually my point. The human might be more challenging (or sometimes perhaps easier), but there's not a massive amount of difference. Not enough to justify an exclusive reason for someone solo-playing. Especially now you can get interdicted by whole grouos of NPCs. There would typically be more reasons for someone solo-playing than not wanting to engage in PVP.

NPCs won't put you in any danger, even if you're in an unshielded hauler. Plus they're easy to avoid and no greater in number on the popular trade routes than anywhere else.

As for multi-crew and planetary content, if they include solo and open modes (which they undoubtedly will) it will suffer the same issues.

It comes down to the game being sold and marketed as a sandbox MMO, whilst in reality being a sandbox-ish single player game with optional coop mode. I guarantee if they put "Game also features solo mode, swap seamlessly between solo and multiplayer!" on the ED home page sales would drop overnight.

 

[Stewart_]

Sure, play solo however you want.

But I'd prefer it if people in solo didn't impact on community goals, or have the ability to solo farm bigger ships and pop over to open for pvp/griefing purposes.

Why?

you are aware that FD view solo and group play to be an equal to Open?

solo and group play absolutely should be allowed in community challenges.

Maybe be elite isn't the game for you? Maybe Eve would be better?

Solo players paid the same amount of money therefore should have access to all features, as above poster mentioned. +Rep BTW!

 

[Lokus Midgard]

Heh... I'd like to agree, but the other day I got interdicted in my Asp by an NPC Viper. I assumed I'd have the upper hand, as I've upgraded it decently, but... No... Suffered over 60/70% hull damage or some such worrying nymber. Decided to get out while I could and call it a draw.

So, yes, NPCs very much can be a threat. Maybe the AI's recently been upgraded, but whatever the reason, I was getting close to a very alarming defeat.

There are days you can take on an NPC and win, but there are also days you won't.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

You just cannot beat the argument that everyone who bought the game should have access to all of it's features. This is about as trivial an argument as can be. Everyone payed the same price, for the same options. If you don;t like others touching your galaxy you should have gotten your own.

"The Online Features are provided over the internet as provided by Frontier. You acknowledge that the Online Features are provided by Frontier at its discretion and may be terminated or otherwise discontinued by Frontier at any time."

When it comes to the on-line aspect, FD can pretty much do as they please. You would still have access to it even if they did limit transferring assets.

Not saying they will, but hey.

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Heh... I'd like to agree, but the other day I got interdicted in my Asp by an NPC Viper. I assumed I'd have the upper hand, as I've upgraded it decently, but... No... Suffered over 60/70% hull damage or some such worrying nymber. Decided to get out while I could and call it a draw.

So, yes, NPCs very much can be a threat. Maybe the AI's recently been upgraded, but whatever the reason, I was getting close to a very alarming defeat.

There are days you can take on an NPC and win, but there are also days you won't.

If you were interdicted by a player in a Viper, and you were in an Asp, it is very unlikely you would have escaped.

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Why?

you are aware that FD view solo and group play to be an equal to Open?

solo and group play absolutely should be allowed in community challenges.

Maybe be elite isn't the game for you? Maybe Eve would be better?

Solo players paid the same amount of money therefore should have access to all features, as above poster mentioned. +Rep BTW!

Because they aren't equal? I can farm faster in solo, so why would I farm in open?

And you would still have access to all the features if they split open and solo, what you want is not "access to features" but the ability to seamlessly flit between hard/easy mode as suits you.

 

[obliterator]

I have : it's almost always the open players who are b@tch1ng and whining.

Whining and dictating how others should play the game are two VERY different things. My point still stands.

Maybe be elite isn't the game for you? Maybe Eve would be better?

Here we go again with the status-quo arguments..

Solo players paid the same amount of money therefore should have access to all features, as above poster mentioned. +Rep BTW!

You'd still have access to all features. You would simply have two different saves.

 

[DangerousLarry]

Honestly... I switch to Open as a trader when I have enough cash to cover my losses. As a trader everything you have is usually in your cargo hold. If someone blows you up with all that cargo you're going to feel it. If I have enough saved to cover my insurance and enough to fill my hold I don't really mind going up against players who try to take advantage of traders as it's another part of the game and an experience. I just go in solo if i'm very low on cash and losing a ship is going to set me back considerably. If not open is more fun and feels a lot more of a "complete" game.

So, for someone like me... I think a good kind of counter to people who just trade 24/7 in solo is to cap their profits after they reach a certain amount of Credit balance. It would push towards Open play and shouldn't be too much of a penalty to players who want to trade and make Credits... but then again is it really fair to penalise those who just want to play alone? Yeah, some probably take advantage of the safety and jump into open when they want to PvP but i'd say a lot just want to play alone and be left alone entirely.