Although there is a new thread opened up about someone in SOL. Least they use humor so it doesn't count...
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Although there is a new thread opened up about someone in SOL. Least they use humor so it doesn't count...
It's the nature of PvP it's even in the lexicography...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1lJEarHRiA
Oh, let's not forget EvE, too...
https://soundcloud.com/nan-6/xxxgrath-ragexxx-full-version
I did my time and simply sick of it now. PvP was never about skills or about balanced game play, it's always been about overgearing/mobs killing the weak or exploiting...
http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/Kevyne-Shandris/WoWScrnShot_071712_143750.jpg~original
But. That's like 100%...
Oh my God! 100% griefers in Open!
[video=youtube;7FPELc1wEvk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk[/video]
I kid of course.
Getting my jollies in Mobius. The place to be if you're looking for PvE and consensual PvP. The best of both worlds for me.
We get it you don't like pvp. We don't want to force everyone in to open for a noob gank fest we just want to compete against each other without people competing against us from a different game mode in easy mode.
So, let me see if I have this right. You want to be able to play your way, whilst denying the right for other people to play their way when, in fact, everyone has the choice to play whichever way they want. You can play your way and/or their way. They can play their way and/or your way. Seems like what you want is to restrict everyone except you.
Secondary observation, while I'm here. You also say that you and your fellow PvPers want to compete against each other. If this is true (and we all know it isn't
) Then this is easily solved by creating the PvP version of the Mobius group. Funny though how you guys never want to do this.
So, let me see if I have this right. You want to be able to play your way, whilst denying the right for other people to play their way when, in fact, everyone has the choice to play whichever way they want. You can play your way and/or their way. They can play their way and/or your way. Seems like what you want is to restrict everyone except you.
Secondary observation, while I'm here. You also say that you and your fellow PvPers want to compete against each other. If this is true (and we all know it isn't
I think he was referring to the community goals and how solo players can avoid player interaction (which is kind of the point of solo).
As far as I'm concerned they can have separate Open/Solo/Group top 5 players in CGs but if they get that they'll want separation of something else. Probably Powerplay. Betcha.
It got older than dirt, k? After raising my main through the BGs. After all that PvP for 5 years and seeing it up close and personal...yes...OLD.
It got worse after Cata because...
Stacking healing debuffs because if LITERALLY an arena lasts longer than 2 minutes the DPS whines that they can't kill a healer (and Blizz listens!!!).
Healers Have to Die addons (can't raid mark in BGs as it's considered harassment, but dedicated addons to find any healer is perfectly fine [Blizz doesn't break them]!)
Then add all the bots; kickbots and interrupt bots in supposely "competitive" PvP when people are asking for carries for their 1800+ titles for gold -- yeah -- OLD!!!
Worse upon worst? Blizz now recommends 10 button mice for the 512 macros to even play "competitively".
It's became bot wars essentially. Which macro countered what macro.
It was no different in EvE with the multboxing gate campers and the blue doughnuts (and how CCP banned on the macro users too). -_-
Have fun with that mess in open, but keep it out of solo.
So, let me see if I have this right. You want to be able to play your way, whilst denying the right for other people to play their way when, in fact, everyone has the choice to play whichever way they want. You can play your way and/or their way. They can play their way and/or your way. Seems like what you want is to restrict everyone except you.
Secondary observation, while I'm here. You also say that you and your fellow PvPers want to compete against each other. If this is true (and we all know it isn't
If I had 1/100th of a penny for every time someone said "Let me get this right" or equivalent, and put words in someones mouth that they didnt say, from this thread alone, I would be a very rich man.
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Oh I totally agree. My point is for them to change that. Not saying that is how power play will be, but rather, how the current setup should not be.
This gives a clue that NPC ships will probably be part of it (if you read the undermine task).
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I hate to be pedantic but... you are post 7746, so if you had 1/100th of a penny for every post in this thread, even with the the ones that didn't use that phrase, you only be 77-and-a-bit-p richer.
Actually that's a lie, I love being pedantic
.
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I hate to be pedantic but... you are post 7746, so if you had 1/100th of a penny for every post in this thread, even with the the ones that didn't use that phrase, you only be 77-and-a-bit-p richer.
Actually that's a lie, I love being pedantic
Did you know that if he had 1/100th of a penny for every post in this entire forum (the Frontier forum, not just Elite) he'd have £212.15?
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People keep saying that everyone can play "their way". My impression is that competing against "invisible" commanders in Solo is not "playing my way". If I decide to sign up for a specific competitive mode of play, I want a level playing field. That is "my way".
Secondary observation, while I'm here. You also say that you and your fellow PvPers want to compete against each other. If this is true (and we all know it isn't
This has been suggested in Beta and was met with extreme aggressiveness on the forum. The thing is, you cannot enforce a Mobius type of group as long as commanders can leave for Solo, or regular Open, or another group at any time. We have suggested that FDEV provide a mechanic to support such a group (where you cannot leave - to join and have a character locked in that mode is the player's decision), and the forum almost laughed in our face. Remember that discussion?
As far as I'm concerned they can have separate Open/Solo/Group top 5 players in CGs but if they get that they'll want separation of something else. Probably Powerplay. Betcha.
Yes, thank you. I've suggested this too in the Vox Populi. Of course, we don't know yet how Community goals will interface with the Powerplay update (or if they will continue to exist for that matter), but it would be a good step towards fairness between Solo and Open.
I've said it in the other thread as well. I don't mind that Solo commanders influence the galaxy. This is how the game has been designed and it was announced from the start. Sure, it raises a problem in light of competing factions in Powerplay, but in the end, it's better than FDEV simply scripting the story of the galaxy.
So, let me see if I have this right. You want to be able to play your way, whilst denying the right for other people to play their way when, in fact, everyone has the choice to play whichever way they want. You can play your way and/or their way. They can play their way and/or your way. Seems like what you want is to restrict everyone except you.
Secondary observation, while I'm here. You also say that you and your fellow PvPers want to compete against each other. If this is true (and we all know it isn't
No at all. I've always said have multiple community goals and lock them to modes, one for group/solo and one for open. That way you can have blockade goals take place in open without all the traders doing their half of the goal in solo mode. Some players will always choose the path of least resistance but a lot of players will want to do the goals in open. Play it your way? Everyone gets to play how they like without interference from the other modes.
As for the pvp group thing open players want a living breathing galaxy where you can get jumped by a pirate and the pirate can get jumped by a bounty hunter. The main things holding that back is the lack of a proper criminality and consequence system which is the cause of the majority of problems regarding "griefing".
I'm coming at this from two perspectives as well. I've been trading in open since release and half the time I was crying out for some piracy. Any npc I could splat in a trade ship or run away from without taking damage.
Now I've turned to player piracy (due to being put off of trading by the amount of people abusing the beacon exploit) and I find most of the problems related with it are due to poor communication game mechanics. A lot of traders turn off local chat and think they've been killed for no reason when in fact the pirate has been talking to them all along.
Some of the time they get their drives shot out and lose a bit of cargo, some of the time I'm letting people go due to the low paying cargo they're carrying. A lot of the time I end up making friends with the players I've pirated as they understand the food chain. Yes the odd trader gets killed because they try to escape, fight or would rather abuse you verbally. Some times the trader will fight back and drive you off. The majority of the time however they combat log. Why play open if you aren't going to deal with the consequences? Same goes for pirates who log against bounty hunters as well.
The other day I was hunted by bounty hunters and due to mistakes of my own I was killed 3 times and lost 6 mil. I was run out of a system and it was impossible for me to get back to piracy without getting killed and was forced to fly 100ly away and try to find a new place to pirate.
That's the food chain cycle which players want in open. Starting a pvp group isn't wanted because open players don't want a "fair fight" as in "10 minutes, first to shields down wins". They want to prey on the weak and be preyed on by the strong themselves (from a pirates perspective). You want to pull over a T6 and then be fighting for your life the next minute because it was a trap and 3 of the T6's wing m8s in fdls drop in to the instance. Emergent gameplay.
If you think this is unfair then you have the choice not to play against other players. Piracy isn't ever going to be "fair" anaconda vs anaconda it's going to be a pirate preying on a weaker ship and being preyed on themselves by a bounty hunter in a better ship or a well armed and efficient npc police force (which doesn't exist right now).
Players want to play with the danger of knowing their next jump might end in death due to getting shot up. The problems that occur are the lack of consequences for the player doing the shooting. A lot of this is around already but it's player created due to the lack of criminality.
The majority of players playing pirate like this aren't clearing their bounties. The problems come from the players who are just jumping in killing a player and then off to the station to pay their way clean. This is closer to griefing due to lack of game mechanics. Piracy done right isn't griefing.
A lot of the players who cry griefer because they got shot in open are blaming the players for this behaviour rather than FD for not having proper consequences and deterrents in place. As a pirate I want to be chased across the galaxy looking for a safe anarchy station to dock at rather than boosting in to the main station in a system I've been pirating for the past hour without consequence.
Players get killed by pirates because we think you're stalling for time to combat log. There's nothing in place to dissuade it so the only way to pirate effectively is to teach players that lack of cooperation will be met with death. This isn't the pirates fault, if you've been playing for an hour and 5 people have combat logged on you without consequence then you're going to react more harshly to your next "customer" instead of taking the time to have a meaningful player interaction featuring roleplay and chat.
The other thing is open should be labelled more fittingly to describe the above gameplay. If people don't understand how the game is played in open then they should be steered towards a different gamemode. They should implement a proper pve version of open (mobius style) so people can play with the rare and meaningful pvp a large number of people desire (although proper criminality mechanics would make pvp more rare and meaningful in open).
Now I get that a lot of players don't want this, that's fine and that's why you have the choice to opt out of it to solo or group and shoot your 1 millionth procedural generated npc next to the same procedural generated asteroid.
All that aside I don't care about people playing in solo and group. Play it your way. When it comes to things like community goals where you have players actively working against each other, the ability to do it from a different mode creates tension in the community on both sides.
In open I have choices about how to play against other open players. I can run, fight or cooperate. When I'm in open playing against a solo/group player I can't interact with I have no choice to do any of those things.
All we want is the option to have somethings locked to a mode not everything.
I have rl friends who I play with in group so I want the the ability to switch on occasion but I don't want to be forced by the game mechanics to be forced in to a game mode I don't want to play because I feel that's the only way to compete. The same way I believe that solo/group players shouldn't be forced in to open to compete.
Enough to buy all the current ship skins!
I'm looking forward to how PP pans out. This thread has certainly produced a lot of heat and interesting points.
PvP isn't about "leveled playing fields". It's about ganking.
After you see this crap enough...
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-laughing?p=18525624&viewfull=1#post18525624
Time to address what PvP has become, and fix it itself.
It's cheap content filler for devs (it's not AI scripting and debugging, and they can always fall back on the "PvP happen" excuse too). Why it's been included in the nth video game, while actual PvE content has been dwindling.
It only raises a problem in Powerplay if attacking other players affects Powerplay and I'm yet to be convinced that it will. I'm confident that it wasn't designed that way.
Ultimately though, if some players want to play by their own set of rules, they can't really complain if those rules don't quite fit the way that they planned in an environment that wasn't designed to support those rules. (e.g. "blockading")
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