Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Robert Maynard]

Hmmm, any chance I could get put on this separate server? You wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of having the shadow mode online, if that'd help. Just ban me away to my own computer. Seeing as I wouldn't be affecting anyone else, would it be then possible to have a working pause button for when I just need to pop away at short notice? That'd be great

The shadowban group will still be online - it's not an offline mode.

 

[Arioch]

The shadowban group will still be online - it's not an offline mode.

I know, I was just dreaming

 

[Jockey79]

I can see why you're befuddled here, because when i think piracy, i think all of the piracy gameplay. Stealing cargo, running from the cops, avoiding bounty hunters, smuggling goods into the station.

You also don't understand the phrase pure pvp either. Pure pvp is exactly what it sounds like. Player vs player, combat ship vs combat ship with the only objective being to kill the other person.

also FYI pirates don't fly combat ships, they fly multirole ships. Fighter are the ships combat player fly.

Any ship, equipped out with a combat config and used specifically for attacking another ship - is a "combat" ship, there is no separation - no matter how you want to divide it.
A Cobra setup for piracy and a Vulture setup for piracy - there is no difference, it is still committing to combat, in a ship designed for combat.

Sorry, you are the one getting "befuddled" trying to justify using a Cobra for piracy. Multi roles are also used by bounty hunters by the way, for the sole purpose of killing those who are "Wanted" (human or not) - by your separation, bounty hunters are not in combat ships either (kinda make the job harder wouldn't it?)

[Side note, multis also tend to have equal or more weapons than their fighter counterparts, and have more room for combat gear, like boosters and cell banks = multis can be better combat ships, than fighters can]

"pure PvP" - making distinctions that are only in your mind and no one elses. You are using force (or the threat of force) to steal goods from another player.
You are a Player versus another Player who does not want to part with goods - there is no half measure, this is not Schrödinger's cat. You either do PvP or don't, in a ship that is fitted for the PvP task at hand.

I have no idea why you are trying to dress up your piracy as something other what it is - you are violently bullying cargo out of other players (PvP). This is a perfectly valid profession in game (as I keep saying), there is no need to use half truths or misleading descriptions for it. Other people in this thread are proud of that choice and I respect them for it. I get the feeling you are either trying to hide an agenda or are morally opposed to your own in game choices :S.

2) The mission wasn't to specifically kill trader, that was one part of the whole mission. I would hope removing the requirement to purchase your own cargo would lure players away from solo. It would also remove the inflation from the community goals increasing the traders profits.
3) A. Does this mean we should remove pirates and mercenary kill missions too? they are a demographic in the game.
B.How is an optional mission, in an optional part of space removing the players choice if they want to be shot at? They could easily avoid the area and be done with it or go to solo and be done with it.

The mission, while had multiple parts to it, involved killing a human trader - and you failed to answer, what good is the mission when the traders part can be done where you cannot shoot them?
The only way around that, is to also use NPC traders to count towards the mission so you can still pirate your way through it, but I'm yet to see a human pirate accept the idea of stealing from an NPC to be valid - it ALWAYS has to be a human player.

Funny how a lot of bounty hunters are happy to stay busy with NPCs when there are too few human criminals about, traders tend to busy plodding along to notice who is nearby any way. Some people smuggle by going in to USS and grabbing risk free loot (though not always, I got caught in a trap once). Yet "pirates" keep going on and on and on for human targets (completely ignoring NPC Type 6, 7 and 9s going by) - perhaps this speaks more about what the NPCs carry - something FD could look into maybe.

Did I miss something? nowhere did i say this was going to be forced on anyone. Don't take the mission if you don't want to get shot. if you're part of the factions involved, probably best to avoid the area in open tho. Don't want to be mistaken for someone else.

A mission, to trade for any sort of community goal, plus a linked mission for people to shoot traders - are you going to ask the human trader if you can interdict them and kill them? or are you just going to do it regardless?

Spoiler

(Answer: If you don't ask permission first, then it is "forced" PvP)

Which is why I've said, there'd be no point in that set up, as the human traders will go to Private Groups to do it, or goto Solo. So then what will you do to aid your faction? As all the traders are safe away from Open and your guns/ interdictor.

Idk, how would a mission that gets traders, pirates, and bounty hunters together in one place, effect someone who likes pirating?

Because there would be no one but pirates or bounty hunters to pirate while the faction/ community goal was going on - something you're ignoring.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The mission, while had multiple parts to it, involved killing a human trader - and you failed to answer, what good is the mission when the traders part can be done where you cannot shoot them?
The only way around that, is to also use NPC traders to count towards the mission so you can still pirate your way through it, but I'm yet to see a human pirate accept the idea of stealing from an NPC to be valid - it ALWAYS has to be a human player.

There's 3 missions, the mission, a counter mission, and a counter-counter mission. If nobody does the mission, then the counter mission wins.

as for the second part, you answered that yourself

Yet "pirates" keep going on and on and on for human targets (completely ignoring NPC Type 6, 7 and 9s going by) - perhaps this speaks more about what the NPCs carry - something FD could look into maybe.

Funny how a lot of bounty hunters are happy to stay busy with NPCs when there are too few human criminals about, traders tend to busy plodding along to notice who is nearby any way. Some people smuggle by going in to USS and grabbing risk free loot (though not always, I got caught in a trap once).

Bounty hunters are not happy just hunting npcs. They want human targets as well, it's so bad FD is even changing the crime system to accommodate them. There was also a lot of complaining when the 1 mill cap on bounties was added. Since npcs don't get bounties over 300k it was only the pvp hunters complaining.

A mission, to trade for any sort of community goal, plus a linked mission for people to shoot traders - are you going to ask the human trader if you can interdict them and kill them? or are you just going to do it regardless?
(Answer: If you don't ask permission first, then it is "forced" PvP)


Because there would be no one but pirates or bounty hunters to pirate while the faction/ community goal was going on - something you're ignoring.

If people take a mission knowing they could be attacked, and they are attacked, you cannot claim they were ambushed. It's as close to a consent form as we can get in elite.

i'm not ignoring it, I'm just not going to take predictions from what may or may not happen in open, from someone who doesn't play in open.

 

[fademist]

There's 3 missions, the mission, a counter mission, and a counter-counter mission. If nobody does the mission, then the counter mission wins.

as for the second part, you answered that yourself


Bounty hunters are not happy just hunting npcs. They want human targets as well, it's so bad FD is even changing the crime system to accommodate them. There was also a lot of complaining when the 1 mill cap on bounties was added. Since npcs don't get bounties over 300k it was only the pvp hunters complaining.




If people take a mission knowing they could be attacked, and they are attacked, you cannot claim they were ambushed. It's as close to a consent form as we can get in elite.

i'm not ignoring it, I'm just not going to take predictions from what may or may not happen in open, from someone who doesn't play in open.

He doesnt need to predict anything open already lost many ppl cause of the unwanted pvp ...and u ignore that ...

 

[Dave1235]

Funny how a lot of bounty hunters are happy to stay busy with NPCs when there are too few human criminals about, traders tend to busy plodding along to notice who is nearby any way. Some people smuggle by going in to USS and grabbing risk free loot (though not always, I got caught in a trap once). Yet "pirates" keep going on and on and on for human targets (completely ignoring NPC Type 6, 7 and 9s going by) - perhaps this speaks more about what the NPCs carry - something FD could look into maybe.

Virtual +1, you broke my rep button.

I recently bought a Vulture to go get some pirates in a local Res as a break from trading, managed to annoy the local drug dealers to the point they scan me & attack me ;o), lol dial a pirate, they deliver.

Miners = don't need player interaction, with at least 1 mining laser I guess they are not looking for pvp interaction.
Traders = don't need player interaction, maybe the odd hi or whats x selling for around here.
Bounty hunter (me personally) = I am happy in solo or Mobius in a res, I don't need pvp interaction.
Some other bounty hunters = likely do a bit of pve for cash but happy to chase a player over 5 systems & interdict for the pvp, fair play to you, maybe I will one day too.
Pirate = (from what I seem to read a lot on the forum & your point above) needs a player to steal from, almost a prerequisite.

Why is piracy the only career (other than RP psyco PKer / (self redacted) same thing different description, but leave them out for now) that need human interaction?, if it is AI drop rubbish cargo I totally agree it needs looking at.

I have heard rubbish cargo mentioned many times, maybe (probably) FD need to inject some AI trade ships carrying rares around rares area's, rich metals leaving refinery's etc. I also think (on the basis of a lot of reading, I am no pirate) that pirates need bases in Anarchy systems where traders fear to tread & they get above average prices for stock due to shortages, somewhere (I hope) "pirate rep" will make them safe & welcome, but an unarmed trader will get robbed 9 times out of 10.

Hopefully with future crime updates safe systems will be reasonably safe, Anarchy's dangerous & the AI security make it work properly, I have every faith that FD will make the game resemble the DDF / Elite more in the future, I am pretty sure FD want to move in smaller increments with the crime system, anyone who remembers the "great gimbal debate" from beta will understand, from OP to big nerf, to settle somewhere in the middle, now its hardly ever even discussed so I guess they got it right.

The only other reason I can see for "needing" to pirate other players is the human interaction, I get that too, a couple of months back I decided I would take a look in open again, I was there from PB to mid Gamma. I had a type 6, 20 + * insurance with a full hold and decided to see what my solo route looked like in open (still messing around in Eravate next to where I started & I heard there were a lot of pirates there), I met a great one (RP pirate) within 30 mins in open, the hull damage I took was down to me chancing my luck, trying to lock 2 seekers on him wasn't exactly friendly of me, I left alive for 6 tons that he earned and deserved, I got away but he got me again (I was soooo close to getting away lol), on the rerun I decided to share as he asked again & didn't shoot as I did not deploy weapons.

I recorded it for posterity & will add him to my friends list if / when I go back to open, send him a "catch me if you can" message & if I beat him up a little next time in my Asp I will drop him a bit extra for the damage, I like "nice" pirates ;o)

TLDR

I think its going to be a while yet until FD have the crime system working as expected.

I want to have to look at my route, if they are all stops in safe systems then I expect to be reasonably safe, if I am lazy (or take a risk) and end up jumping through a few Anarchy's I should have a tough time, they should not be the same. I would prefer that they make murder / mass murder (not piracy/ the odd accident) really mean something, make the AI hunt you if you murdered in their system.

Yes we need more content & they are working on it but to me the previous is part of the core that is missing, I paid for the DLC as part of the beta, I really hope FD don't even look at the DLC until they implement different danger levels linked to the system, I think it would add a lot for everyone in all modes.

Sorry for the essay.

 

[Jockey79]

There's 3 missions, the mission, a counter mission, and a counter-counter mission. If nobody does the mission, then the counter mission wins.

The mission (as in the trade part) can be, and will be - completed in Solo or Private..... so the counter mission (stop the traders) would never get a fair chance to try unless you make it so NPCs count for it

Bounty hunters are not happy just hunting npcs. They want human targets as well, it's so bad FD is even changing the crime system to accommodate them. There was also a lot of complaining when the 1 mill cap on bounties was added. Since npcs don't get bounties over 300k it was only the pvp hunters complaining.

I did not say "just NPCs" - I said "keep busy with NPCs".
For someone who wants to keep making distinctions, you clearly missed that one. I know Bounty Hunters want human targets, but as some of the top bounties are currently hiding in Solo while they recoup - the BH still needs an income and is making use of NPCs to do it (unlike some pirates, who are not making good use of NPCs - but we seem to agree at least, NPC trade ships do need better cargo etc..)

If people take a mission knowing they could be attacked, and they are attacked, you cannot claim they were ambushed. It's as close to a consent form as we can get in elite.

I my personal opinion, and I did tell someone this when they made a thread about "being griefed" in Open (they were pirated, not griefed - quite clearly). I said then, loading Open equals giving your consent to be used as a punching bag for someone else.
Then directed them to the Mobius Group.

But the point is, a lot of people, do not want unsolicited PvP, but want to play in Open (d'uh ) - this mission will not attract them, as they know it increases the chances of being shot at - so like above, they may just go to Solo to do it.

i'm not ignoring it, I'm just not going to take predictions from what may or may not happen in open, from someone who doesn't play in open.

1) Who said I don't play in Open.... I don't "regularly" play in Open, but from time to time I do.
2) What "prediction" am I making - Look at my sig, see that "Over 7900", when I joined the group, it was 3000. People are leaving Open, and the reasons are listed on the Mobius private forums.
Want to guess what they are? - Oh wait, fademist already gave the answer (below in spoiler)
(We are already getting our jokes ready for "over 9000" )

I know it seems I'm just constantly shooting your idea down, and I am sorry for that - but as people are leaving Open for the reason mentioned, adding more incentive for more people to leave Open isn't really the way to go.
Missions and game mechanics that draw people back to Open are what you want, I however, have no ideas to that end. Perhaps tweaking your idea, or trying another angle :S

Spoiler

He doesnt need to predict anything open already lost many ppl cause of the unwanted pvp ...and u ignore that ...

 

[zodicus]

why shuld i play open or in a group?

I've been playing for a few weeks now and am having a good time trading and bounty hunting ect. Why would or should i switch to open play? It dosn't seam like there's anything to do in a group. I mean I've def hit a few strong signals where i could have used a wing man but that's totally random, most times there nothing. Is that what you do in a wing is fly around a hope to randomly run in to something? I just don't see the point in open. Yes being able to chat with people here and there would be cool but i can't see that justifying the added risk of being interdicted and the like more often. I'm not opposed to open it just dosn't look like there's anything to do.
Also I may just be missing something, possably real obvious.

 

[Hagledesperado]

It is just that the galaxy seems more alive with the occasional player character. PCs are also less predictable than NPCs, so there's that.

 

[Fire70]

LOL first world problems......

 

[kurush]

By staying solo you will miss all the important chances to get ganked and also the additional lag

 

[Sandmann]

Do you want to shoot at and/or be shot at by other players? Do you want to get together with one or two other players and ummm shoot at and/or be shot at by other players? If not, there's probably not much for you in open that you're not getting out of solo. Oh there's also the thrill of seeing a hollow square on your sensor... and wondering if he's gonna shoot at you.

 

[Reaver 2.0]

you're right to ask this question. And the answer is simply to add an element of danger missing from solo.

Currently their is no group content but you can play in a wing if it helps keep grinding more entertaining for you.

 

[Troa Barton]

You're missing half the game!
theres no danger vs npc's, there are no pirates, no player bounties, there is also no random players making the game more alive as previously stated.
there are also no positive interactions with players, no have a few tons of gold commander, no hey want to wing up and trade?
its not a gank fest like people think sure some places are more dangerous than others like community goals and rare hubs but again that's part of the fun.

 

[Privata]

Dont worry , greifers are a myth created by sore losers...
90% of the players are nice , they even say hello when you fly past them and I on many occasions formed temp wings with randoms

 

[Roybe]

If your play time would be ruined because another player killed you, then Open has nothing to offer you. This will happen...always by choice, yours or theirs, with the understanding that all choices are made unilaterally. Again, I want no persons game time to cause them stress in their life. As I stated, if your play time would be ruined because another player killed you, then Open has nothing to offer you.

When you choose Open, you are stating you are ok with the way players make choices in Open and want to be able to make the same choices. If you disagree with this, then Open has nothing for you.

 

[Dave1235]

LOL first world problems......

Amazing observational skillz.

And in breaking news, there are no people from third world country's living in a tent and looking for their next meal or drink of water complaining about their ISP throttling their upload speed.

 

[Sandmann]

90% of the players are nice

You realise that you just said that 10% of players in open are NOT nice, right?

 

[Asp Explorer]

LOL first world problems......

I simply wonder - have you ever been out of a first world country? I spent some time in Djibouti. It was certainly an eye-opener, but they had better internet than I could get in some places in Scotland, or parts of the USA.

 

[zodicus]

no i totally understand i'll probablly be killed more often, im ok with that. Some of you said you formed wings or other wise joined with other players. To what end i dont see that there would be a point in it? or dose the content of the game change in open? how would you trade with another player? if you pick up cargo its always illegal from what ive seen. I find challange in the npc's ive been completely out classed by then a few times. I'm just starting out so if there in a anaconda or clipper something like that im in deep doo doo if i dont have some other npc to draw its fire. i even had to run from a cobra in my asp, idk what weapon he had but killed my sheilds fast. i didnt even have my weapons deployed before he had half my hull dead.