Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Robert Maynard]

Show me where they promised all modes being exactly equal. To me it looks like they already broke that promise. What did/does open have over the other 2, race to elite, the Titan challenge, wings, 5% bonus voucher in wings. So it looks like FD isn't about equality like you think they are.

I expect that the Race to Elite and Titan Challenge competitions were restricted to Open to mitigate the expected "he/she did it in easy mode" complaints that would undoubtedly result in making the competitions available to all modes.

Two out of three modes share the 5% trade dividend vouchers. Who's to say that when NPC wing members are introduced (and hopefully the ability to wing up as a trader escort) that trade dividends would not extend to Solo as well?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Then change your choice. We are all allowed to. If you feel that the pros/cons of Solo outweigh the pros/cons of Open then play Solo. No-one has ever told you you have to only play Open.

I actually find that if you move out from the core worlds you might as well be in solo for the amount of other people you meet.

Also, playing alone in open (solo in other words) I personally find the game harder - it's quite easy to become overwhelmed by NPCs and destroyed than if you're in a wing. (Mention this 2nd point as I play self imposed IM so access to some of the juicer ships like Anaconda and FDL is unlikely ever to happen for me )

 

[SteveLaw]

Show me where they promised all modes being exactly equal. To me it looks like they already broke that promise. What did/does open have over the other 2, race to elite, the Titan challenge, wings, 5% bonus voucher in wings. So it looks like FD isn't about equality like you think they are.

Thing is though, and pay attention to this, the players of Solo, who do not get any of those things, are not asking for changes to Solo to make up the "balance". We accept that Open has more things to offer but that which Solo offers us is more valuable. So adding even more things to the pot still won't outweigh the thing that Open can never give us. Isolation from other players.

 

[fademist]

I expect that the Race to Elite and Titan Challenge competitions were restricted to Open to mitigate the expected "he/she did it in easy mode" complaints that would undoubtedly result in making the competitions available to all modes.

Two out of three modes share the 5% trade dividend vouchers. Who's to say that when NPC wing members are introduced (and hopefully the ability to wing up as a trader escort) that trade dividends would not extend to Solo as well?

on that to put that they can watch more closely for if someone was cheating in the same mode

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

You have that so wrong, it is funny.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

All private groups, share one common thing you use to promote bonuses to Open - having to share.

I can, in ANY private group I play in, jump into a RES and there can be people there - so now I have to share, or move (just like in Open). Thus I earn less cash that play session for either messing about finding a RES without anyone in it, or having to share the spawns in one.

As for CZ, even in Mobius, I'm subject to PvP in there and also, the same share issue. I can jump into a CZ in Mobius and find 8 people on the other team, who'd you think is getting blown up first.... hint, not and NPC.
In my other private groups, same problem of having to share kills or depleted NPCs to shoot and waiting on respawns.

So, a lot of "Opens problems" affect private groups as well.
So it can be argued, Groups should also receive any bonuses added to Open - under the same reasons.

- - - Updated - - -



Also in Groups, not just Open

Mobius has what, 8100+ members? That's the largest group and has, at most 2% of the total population in it. Assuming an even split, 33.3% in each solo, group, and open, which since we don't have any hard stats is the best guess I can make. Mobius has less than 1/15th the population of open, the chances of running the same amount of players is tiny compared to it. Even still, I'd support an increase to npc spawn rate based on the number of players in an instance.

You conveniently didn't talk about trading. in mobius traders enjoy the luxury of no pvp, whether legit pirates or killers. Since npcs are terrible at their job, even when compared to a below avg skilled player, there's no risk to those traders. So while bounty hunters and mercenaries, have to share, traders don't.

All you proved was npcs spawns need to be adjusted for group, as well as open. I never disagreed with you on that one.

- - - Updated - - -

Two out of three modes share the 5% trade dividend vouchers. Who's to say that when NPC wing members are introduced (and hopefully the ability to wing up as a trader escort) that trade dividends would not extend to Solo as well?

Well you'd have to pay for escorts so there goes some or even all the bonus money, and most of the 5% bonus comes from trade vouchers. Wings of bounty hunters lose money since they split up the bounties.

Unless they implement hiring traders to tag along and carry cargo, the 5% bonus won't effect players in solo.

 

[Jockey79]

...
All you proved was npcs spawns need to be adjusted for group, as well as open. I never disagreed with you on that one.

Well, there we have it.

As I've said, the only change needed is to adjust NPC spawn rates for each mode in relation to the number of people in the instance. That way, you still have the same earning potential in Open and Groups as Solo has.

Plus you still get all your "excitement" rewards, all the "social" rewards and that golden "PvP interaction".

Job done, /end thread.

 

[Cody]

Job done, /end thread.

What... at 9523 posts? So close!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well you'd have to pay for escorts so there goes some or even all the bonus money, and most of the 5% bonus comes from trade vouchers. Wings of bounty hunters lose money since they split up the bounties.

Unless they implement hiring traders to tag along and carry cargo, the 5% bonus won't effect players in solo.

Possibly, but not necessarily - it might be that the 5% trade dividend is sufficient to hire NPC wingmen (as the dividend was not a thing when NPC wingmen were discussed). 5% of the profit on a 452t @ 2,000 Cr/t cargo would be 45,000 Cr. - not all that bad for an escort mission....

 

[Jockey79]

What... at 9523 posts? So close!

Well, it's my birthday tomorrow (36 OMG !!!)

So we could save a few posts for tomorrow night - finish the thread with booze and silly talk

 

[SteveLaw]

Well, it's my birthday tomorrow (36 OMG !!!)

So we could save a few posts for tomorrow night - finish the thread with booze and silly talk

In that case you should go back through the 636 pages and do a Open vs Solo greatest hits.

 

[Jockey79]

In that case you should go back through the 636 pages and do a Open vs Solo greatest hits.

You know, I'd considered that a few days ago.
But Robert is better at pulling quotes from the way back when machine

 

[Robert Maynard]

You know, I'd considered that a few days ago.
But Robert is better at pulling quotes from the way back when machine

Not a chance - I was there* - I don't want to have to read the whole threadnaught again!!!

*: Not a moderator for all of it though.

 

[fademist]

You know, I'd considered that a few days ago.
But Robert is better at pulling quotes from the way back when machine

so u will sent us and some boozes too ?

 

[TruffleSnout]

adjust NPC spawn rates

I'd heard in a thread somewhere that open bogs down frequently if there are a lot of players because each player gets (x) number of NPCs spawned with them. Is that actually the case? And if so that's absolutely daft. Open instances with lots of players should have fewer NPCs, not *more*. Mainly for performance reasons. You and up with almost an algebraic explosion of ships in the instance.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

Possibly, but not necessarily - it might be that the 5% trade dividend is sufficient to hire NPC wingmen (as the dividend was not a thing when NPC wingmen were discussed). 5% of the profit on a 452t @ 2,000 Cr/t cargo would be 45,000 Cr. - not all that bad for an escort mission....

Thats average for 10-12min tour. Not enough to move anyone who can actually defend the trader, because he gets way more in this time elsewhere, doesnt matter what ship he is using etc.
500k payment - escort with 2-3 people over 15min, that sounds more realistic. Thats the minimum. And we need bigger ships for this, lets see what 1.3 will bring. Right now nobody can afford a player escort (full wing, 3 people) for trading, it will take his entire profit at least.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Possibly, but not necessarily - it might be that the 5% trade dividend is sufficient to hire NPC wingmen (as the dividend was not a thing when NPC wingmen were discussed). 5% of the profit on a 452t @ 2,000 Cr/t cargo would be 45,000 Cr. - not all that bad for an escort mission....

I don't know if solo would just get free wingmen, That doesn't seem balanced. Either way tho, the 5% vouchers only helps wings of traders. Bounty hunters make less with the 4 way spilt and all. Unless solo players get the ability to wing up with npc traders, the bonus will likely never come to solo.

 

[Jockey79]

I'd heard in a thread somewhere that open bogs down frequently if there are a lot of players because each player gets (x) number of NPCs spawned with them. Is that actually the case? And if so that's absolutely daft. Open instances with lots of players should have fewer NPCs, not *more*. Mainly for performance reasons. You and up with almost an algebraic explosion of ships in the instance.

Well, FD could put a balance between human players and enough NPCs for them to shoot at.

Without the actual data, I'd only be pulling numbers out of fresh air, and I'm not going to insult anyones intelligence with made up numbers. But FD should know the ratio between humans and NPCs while keeping the instance stable.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Thats average for 10-12min tour. Not enough to move anyone who can actually defend the trader, because he gets way more in this time elsewhere, doesnt matter what ship he is using etc.
500k payment - escort with 2-3 people over 15min, that sounds more realistic. Thats the minimum. And we need bigger ships for this, lets see what 1.3 will bring. Right now nobody can afford a player escort (full wing, 3 people) for trading, it will take his entire profit at least.

I imagine that market forces will dictate the price somewhat - 4x 500k Cr. per hour split three ways is 666k Cr. - I doubt many traders will pay that (over and above the 5% trade dividend that would be received by wing members).

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Well, there we have it.

As I've said, the only change needed is to adjust NPC spawn rates for each mode in relation to the number of people in the instance. That way, you still have the same earning potential in Open and Groups as Solo has.

Plus you still get all your "excitement" rewards, all the "social" rewards and that golden "PvP interaction".

Job done, /end thread.

now who's ignoring arguments and hoping they will go away?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't know if solo would just get free wingmen, That doesn't seem balanced. Either way tho, the 5% vouchers only helps wings of traders. Bounty hunters make less with the 4 way spilt and all. Unless solo players get the ability to wing up with npc traders, the bonus will likely never come to solo.

While bounty hunters in Wings make less per kill due to sharing the bounty with their Wing-mates, they are more likely to survive taking on the larger, more lucrative, targets. I expect that Frontier can judge for themselves how lucrative, on average, players in wings are compared to single players.