The Star Citizen Thread V10

Really? That's interesting - because even on beginner-tier servers you can shove a couple of Tb of sticks in - and even in the most wasteful way possible you could "give" 128 players 16Gb of pool each, which is likely to be greater than or equal to local pool.
They use Amazon EC2 C5 Compute instances which max out at 144GB.

When Sean Tracy was saying RAM was an issue, it was in the context of dev's running a server locally on their PC. So not entirely clear that the servers are running out of RAM or if it is a combination of all the objects and the ability of their code to multi-thread.

Microtech is scheduled for end of this year would be the next big increase in content. It's on the roadmap, but nothing about Server Side OCS/ Server Meshing / Server Persistence is.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
You have quite the imagination.
No need for much imagination, I just outlined the different basic scenarios that can explain how a server is full. A server being full does not tell us much about overall concurrency levels. You on the other hand seemed to have chosen only one possible scenario and thereby jumping to baseless conclusions. Which leads me to:

It's hardly a ghost town. Despite a few people wishing desperately that it was.
It is really not a matter of whishing anything, it is just a matter of facts: Do you have any actual figures for concurrency in the SC PU or are you just making up your own facts?
 
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They use Amazon EC2 C5 Compute instances which max out at 144GB.

When Sean Tracy was saying RAM was an issue, it was in the context of dev's running a server locally on their PC. So not entirely clear that the servers are running out of RAM or if it is a combination of all the objects and the ability of their code to multi-thread.

Microtech is scheduled for end of this year would be the next big increase in content. It's on the roadmap, but nothing about Server Side OCS/ Server Meshing / Server Persistence is.
He's definitely talking about servers available to the public as well as running local instances for dev purposes.

We are hitting and honestly, we hit them a quarter ago, we are at a very serious limit right now of content on the server.
It's actually really hard for us to even run our servers locally on our PCs now because it's just the sheer amount of RAM we need so we've gotten to this state where there is no more content that we can shove on there. We have to have this (SS:OCS)
 
RAM starved server instances struggling to cope with content. RAM starved local clients struggling to deal with poorly thought out .pak.

CI-G grabs root cause, and spends devtime reiterating hair.

Besides - if RAM is claimed as the blocker to the actual manifestation of the Vision, I'll loan one of my rigs to CI-G so they can have a go on real-metal Tb. They'll need to provide their own GPU of course :D
 
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They use Amazon EC2 C5 Compute instances which max out at 144GB.

When Sean Tracy was saying RAM was an issue, it was in the context of dev's running a server locally on their PC. So not entirely clear that the servers are running out of RAM or if it is a combination of all the objects and the ability of their code to multi-thread.

Microtech is scheduled for end of this year would be the next big increase in content. It's on the roadmap, but nothing about Server Side OCS/ Server Meshing / Server Persistence is.
It all seems a bit strange to me, but i probably don't understand sofware development or something.

My guess is they are actually keeping everything loaded all the time regardless of whether it is in use and due to lack of server meshing they can't parcel the load out.

So.... if it is a matter of waiting for server meshing, and if the thing has hit a limit, then Microtech is going to have to wait until then.

It does tie in with the comment from the other week from a dev where he was talking about hiding server boundaries in the QT spaces, which will literally make QT a loading screen at certain points.

When i tried to discuss this with a backer.... well, i think you can imagine how that went down. It bloody well makes sense as well. Some of them have such a hard on for Chris' vision of one instance across the whole galaxy they don't want to hear about senisble technical decision to make things actually work. I tried to point out it wasn't a criticism but just reality, but they didn't want to hear it. I mean, why does anyone actually need to be in the same instance as someone else who is thousands or millions of km distance from them?

This is one of the major challenges the devs must be facing. Trying to make things work like CR has declared they must be vs the reality of .... well, reality.
 
Yeah, also I presume the comment about "servers are actually full" and equating it to "fun", is a bit misleading. I would imagine the main SC server aggregates players into servers by default (as opposed to creating 1 server per player) so roughly 10,000 concurrent players would fill up 200 servers of 50 cap. If there were only 100 concurrent players they would also fill 2 servers. In all cases the games would feel "full", but only in one of those two scenarios the game is actually a ghost town and clear indication of not much fun...
Back during the Alpha 2.0 to Alpha 2.4 six-month period, Star Citizen had an average concurrent playercount of only 315:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4qxhep/_/d4wql9m
Meanwhile, CIG told us via the latest Forbes article that Star Citizen had a total of (only) 40,000 Citizens playing a week.
 
The best part of the stream is where they talk about how Roberts is an "amazing programmer" and they imply that he is actively working on the codebase.
You don't get to stay in a senior position at CIG unless you're skilled at massaging Roberts' ego.

The servers are actually full. Pretty much constantly.
And yet any time I watch a stream of someone playing alone rather than with a coordinated group of mates they spend most of their time aimlessly running around dead locations populated with zombie NPCs, and rarely encounter anyone else. A full server doesn't really mean much, even in SC's micro-verse, when the game can handle so few players to start with. I'm sure when the diffusion server meshing comes online and they have hundreds of thousands of players in the same instance it will be a different story, not that that will ever happen.
 
Back during the Alpha 2.0 to Alpha 2.4 six-month period, Star Citizen had an average concurrent playercount of only 315:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4qxhep/_/d4wql9m
Meanwhile, CIG told us via the latest Forbes article that Star Citizen had a total of (only) 40,000 Citizens playing a week.
They had 40,000 (claimed) folks trying out the free-fly/expo in October/November last year. That's where that figure comes from. Since that expo, numbers have plummeted...mostly because the majority of them didn't buy into SC and just sampled the free-fly event.. Similar to the latest free fly, the majority took the opportunity to try for free but sensibly didn't fork out and buy in...so now we're left with the remaining longer term backers + a few newbies after that last free-fly week. It's certainly nowhere near 40,000...perhaps drop a few zeros and it'd be more accurate. ;)
 
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You don't get to stay in a senior position at CIG unless you're skilled at massaging Roberts' ego.



And yet any time I watch a stream of someone playing alone rather than with a coordinated group of mates they spend most of their time aimlessly running around dead locations populated with zombie NPCs, and rarely encounter anyone else. A full server doesn't really mean much, even in SC's micro-verse, when the game can handle so few players to start with. I'm sure when the diffusion server meshing comes online and they have hundreds of thousands of players in the same instance it will be a different story, not that that will ever happen.
SC is similar to E-D in that respect...players congregate around choke points/mission targets for PvP opportunities. At my particular home spawn point of Levski, there's always folks running about delivering boxes and collecting missions. It's very rare I see it empty...but that doesn't mean it's crawling with players either :) Half a dozen or so players by the time it takes me to collect a ship/mission and scoot outta there is around average.

Judging purely by the chat, most folks hang around ArcCorps or Lorville either sight seeing or collecting missions for the drugs lab...which is fine by me. If they're down there, they're not shooting up my flying target of a prospector when I'm trying to do some mining in peace.
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It all seems a bit strange to me, but i probably don't understand sofware development or something.

My guess is they are actually keeping everything loaded all the time regardless of whether it is in use and due to lack of server meshing they can't parcel the load out.

So.... if it is a matter of waiting for server meshing, and if the thing has hit a limit, then Microtech is going to have to wait until then.

It does tie in with the comment from the other week from a dev where he was talking about hiding server boundaries in the QT spaces, which will literally make QT a loading screen at certain points.

When i tried to discuss this with a backer.... well, i think you can imagine how that went down. It bloody well makes sense as well. Some of them have such a hard on for Chris' vision of one instance across the whole galaxy they don't want to hear about senisble technical decision to make things actually work. I tried to point out it wasn't a criticism but just reality, but they didn't want to hear it. I mean, why does anyone actually need to be in the same instance as someone else who is thousands or millions of km distance from them?

This is one of the major challenges the devs must be facing. Trying to make things work like CR has declared they must be vs the reality of .... well, reality.
I remember saying things back in 2014 that CIG is going to have serious trouble making Crytek netcode to work with 30-50 players per instance and IF they menage to do that it will be such a colossal job and almost impossible for just few years of expected ETA(back then) period......I was burned at stake alive by SC White knights with almost their identical response that I do not understand game development and that is just a matter of months even weeks before CIG "master-minds"figure how to get more than hundreds of players per instance...We didn't yet reach those numbers of players per instance to work flawlessly(maybe we never will)but Croberts rise up once again public expectation with "magical"server meshing.......Not that I am saying that it's impossible task but that tech is not arrived yet fully and could be decade far away....
 
Not that I am saying that it's impossible task but that tech is not arrived yet fully and could be decade far away....
Well Zyll, if their current excuse is RAM limits, what's it going to be in the next decade? Thread count? IOPS? Bandwidth?

Technology is only getting better, and bigger, and MOAR of it - and CI-G are only getting further and further away from releasing two projects they had promised to deliver in 2014.

Any muppet can stuff a box full of RAM and call it a job done. Threads, IPT and cores are blooming. SSD's now have more IOPS than you can shake a IOPS stick at, and bandwidth is gradually increasing globally, and we are finally seeing 2+ gigabit at the desktop level.

And Star Citizen remains a vague handwaved dream.
 
They had 40,000 (claimed) folks trying out the free-fly/expo in October/November last year. That's where that figure comes from. Since that expo, numbers have plummeted...mostly because the majority of them didn't buy into SC and just sampled the free-fly event.. Similar to the latest free fly, the majority took the opportunity to try for free but sensibly didn't fork out and buy in...so now we're left with the remaining longer term backers + a few newbies after that last free-fly week. It's certainly nowhere near 40,000...perhaps drop a few zeros and it'd be more accurate. ;)
40? 🙃
 
Only on the servers I play on...maybe add a zero across them all :D (just uneducated guesswork, no actual figures)The servers on the EU side haven't been full since the free-fly a couple of weeks ago...Probably better populated on the US servers I guess, but I don't go over there too often...I might get stuck on one with that shouty-dinosaur chap :oops:
 
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The best part of the stream is where they talk about how Roberts is an "amazing programmer" and they imply that he is actively working on the codebase.



Credit: u/Nauxill

There is no way Roberts is actively coding anything. As they progress through their careers, senior programmers tend to move on to management, tech review or team lead type roles. I would imagine that very few people actively code past the age of 40 (in an enterprise context).

This is just ridiculous. I also wonder what exactly they mean by "a nice little stream." Sounds like ** to me.
I'd be horrified if the CEO of a 500 person company is writing any code as well. He should be managing not coding. He should have no time at all to write code.

Still, its a question, where can CR do less damage, with his knowledge of coding that is probably decades out of date or his knowledge of management which is centuries out of date...
 
You see, i just don't get this. Sitting in a turret while someone else does the flying. Its why when i have done MC in ED i only take a fighter, i won't take a turret.
I could see that part apply to the ARMA crowd and if you have good friends with good communications.

In dedicated ARMA groups you had your roles basically so you had your driver, gunner and loader and stuff which could mean looking through a vision slit for HOURS before anything really happened.

That said, when poopoo finally happened everything happened at once.
 
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