The Star Citizen Thread V10

So the reason why the PU is so empty isn’t because of incompetence,it’s because of incompetence.
I guess the plan was just keep tinkering as the faithful have always said take your time.
Is their a likely solution? Or has CR painted himself into a corner?
Currently they have a space game with no flight model and an engine that is creaking at the seems with a laughable amount of assets.
 
Well, try sit in the belly of a JU-88 where the pilot is trying to escape and the gunner tries to hit the enemy, it's actually fun, but then again one is a simulator the other is just a sci-fi game where the mechanics is reduced to arcade mechanics.
As was said, it's very different in 6DoF, where it can get confusing very, very fast. Movies tend to make it way cooler for a reason, and in my opinion one of the better showcases of this is Luke in SWIV - trying to hit stuff for extended time to finally hit one target - and they didn't even have shields.

SC is similar to E-D in that respect...players congregate around choke points/mission targets for PvP opportunities. At my particular home spawn point of Levski, there's always folks running about delivering boxes and collecting missions. It's very rare I see it empty...but that doesn't mean it's crawling with players either :) Half a dozen or so players by the time it takes me to collect a ship/mission and scoot outta there is around average.
(snip)
But Elite also has lots more of such places. Basically if you visit any power HQs, any CG target, Maia, current evacuation spot, Jaques, etc, etc, you are almost guaranteed to meet few players at every such spot.
 
A hypothetical for the backers in the thread:

TheAgent's backroom gossip is looking good regarding subscription rewards ramping up. How would you feel if some of his other recent gossip ended up being true? IE:
  • SQ42 launching on consoles
  • Star Citizen being pushed towards a release state in a similar timeframe. (He doesn't state dates, that's my interpretation of this)
  • Star Citizen being launched on consoles (tech willing)
Would any of that bother you? Would the pros outweigh the cons?

Recent Agent stuff here: [1],[2],[3]
 
Well, these 3 sound much more like money desperated wishful thinking than anything else. So even if true, are CIG able to make console versions with their frankengine, half-baked tech and barely thought out design? And moreover: can they pass SONY or MS certifications?
 
As was said, it's very different in 6DoF, where it can get confusing very, very fast. Movies tend to make it way cooler for a reason, and in my opinion one of the better showcases of this is Luke in SWIV - trying to hit stuff for extended time to finally hit one target - and they didn't even have shields.



But Elite also has lots more of such places. Basically if you visit any power HQs, any CG target, Maia, current evacuation spot, Jaques, etc, etc, you are almost guaranteed to meet few players at every such spot.
That's because it's a lot bigger...but comparing sizes wasn't my point. I have 5,500 hours in E-D on 2 platforms, I still play. Let's not get into a peeing contest about which has more of what or who likes whatever more. There's quite enough of that already ;)
 
Well, these 3 sound much more like money desperated wishful thinking than anything else. So even if true, are CIG able to make console versions with their frankengine, half-baked tech and barely thought out design? And moreover: can they pass SONY or MS certifications?
I reckon our Chrissie boy is hoping Microsoft won't remember him spending their Freelancer funding making a crap movie :rolleyes:
But be honest here...can anyone see Microsoft or Sony allowing the Chris Roberts name, all the controversy, all the notoriety of Star Citizen, it's now public mismanagement and Hollywood accounting sullying their brands and reputations by opening the doors to the snake-oil salesman and his pet project?

...Me neither.

A hypothetical for the backers in the thread:

TheAgent's backroom gossip is looking good regarding subscription rewards ramping up. How would you feel if some of his other recent gossip ended up being true? IE:
  • SQ42 launching on consoles
  • Star Citizen being pushed towards a release state in a similar timeframe. (He doesn't state dates, that's my interpretation of this)
  • Star Citizen being launched on consoles (tech willing)
Would any of that bother you? Would the pros outweigh the cons?

Recent Agent stuff here: [1],[2],[3]
Ci¬G need the capital...I'd say they were desperately reliant on it. All they have without any possible (but doubtful) next gen console ports is a big and deepening hole of technical debt to us backers. The PC market might optimistically produce a few more thousand sales of Sqn42 at best. If they are also planning on releasing the PU to the console market (also unlikely due to MS/Sony certification and gated Xbox live/PSN network requirements)...it would have to be a lot more than what's on offer or what they can turn out by 2021...and that's almost as wishful as hoping the Dragon Lady could have survived Game of Thrones to make lots of little Jon Snows.

Ci¬G are clutching at straws that aren't even there.
 
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But but.... ED bad, so SC good!
I hate that trope.

I love Elite, but the universe itself feels so damn, well, emty of gameplay that is ENGAGING while looking absolutely gorgeous while SC might have POTENTIAL if they ever get it released.

Just playing against bots in the Arena Commander is waaay more exciting and fun since all the combat in Elite is so damn slow and the weapons are far more fun to use.

One is released but is having problems with engaging gameplay and the other have yet to see an actual real release date and one has had issues since release and the other will have issues if it does NOT release.
 
I hate that trope.

I love Elite, but the universe itself feels so damn, well, emty of gameplay that is ENGAGING while looking absolutely gorgeous while SC might have POTENTIAL if they ever get it released.

Just playing against bots in the Arena Commander is waaay more exciting and fun since all the combat in Elite is so damn slow and the weapons are far more fun to use.

One is released but is having problems with engaging gameplay and the other have yet to see an actual real release date and one has had issues since release and the other will have issues if it does NOT release.
ED is critiqued on the game design and playability,SC is critiqued on something that CR thought of.
It’s a fantasy that you can play the role of space janitor or command your own armada of megaships.
Strangely the road to this game to end all games includes 8 years of not being able to walk through door.
 
I reckon our Chrissie boy is hoping Microsoft won't remember him spending their Freelancer funding making a crap movie :rolleyes:
But be honest here...can anyone see Microsoft or Sony allowing the Chris Roberts name, all the controversy, all the notoriety of Star Citizen, it's now public mismanagement and Hollywood accounting sullying their brands and reputations by opening the doors to the snake-oil salesman and his pet project?

...Me neither.
Ach, it's a numbers game right. If they think there's a product there, and money to be made, then yeah.

(Ok, so maybe not then ;))

Ci¬G need the capital...I'd say they were desperately reliant on it. All they have without any possible (but doubtful) next gen console ports is a big and deepening hole of technical debt to us backers. The PC market might optimistically produce a few more thousand sales of Sqn42 at best. If they are also planning on releasing the PU to the console market (also unlikely due to MS/Sony certification and gated Xbox live/PSN network requirements)...it would have to be a lot more than what's on offer or what they can turn out by 2021...and that's almost as wishful as hoping the Dragon Lady could have survived Game of Thrones to make lots of little Jon Snows.

Ci¬G are clutching at straws that aren't even there.
Yeah the SC launch footing seems an impossible ask in that timeframe. Even if the core technical issues could be resolved the appeal would surely be stunted by the curtailed scope and a 'rolling release' roadmap for later additions. I'd certainly expect the PC market to be cynical at any rate. (And yeah the console port does seem like dreamland at this point).

The SQ42 I can see more. If the Agent's current info is in the right ballpark then they're aiming for a free Chapter 1, and a couple of Chapters for sale. It's do-able you'd think. If not exactly something you'd expect to make huge waves, big names or no. A full cinematic space campaign? Maybe. The start of one? Hmm. (Plus now I fear Chris doing loads of re-writes ;))
 
That's because it's a lot bigger...but comparing sizes wasn't my point. I have 5,500 hours in E-D on 2 platforms, I still play. Let's not get into a peeing contest about which has more of what or who likes whatever more. There's quite enough of that already ;)
I wasn't really talking about the size of the universe, but about the player count here. Both games have chokepoints (relatively) full of players, but at least to me, Elite seems to have way more of such chokepoints.
 
I'd be horrified if the CEO of a 500 person company is writing any code as well. He should be managing not coding. He should have no time at all to write code.

Still, its a question, where can CR do less damage, with his knowledge of coding that is probably decades out of date or his knowledge of management which is centuries out of date...
I dont know much about game / software / dream development. Is it scary that when they talked about Croberts coding it up they also talked about how hes trying to reinvent how everything attaches in the code. Almost a decade in and hes reinventing stuff like that personally?
 
As was said, it's very different in 6DoF, where it can get confusing very, very fast. Movies tend to make it way cooler for a reason, and in my opinion one of the better showcases of this is Luke in SWIV - trying to hit stuff for extended time to finally hit one target - and they didn't even have shields.



But Elite also has lots more of such places. Basically if you visit any power HQs, any CG target, Maia, current evacuation spot, Jaques, etc, etc, you are almost guaranteed to meet few players at every such spot.
Well, as we don't know how it would be in the future, probably we don't need humans to operate a turret, it need to be fun and challenge to be a turret gunner, and the fact is it's not that exciting in space games.

In a WW2 simulator you can simulate the experience, and because of how it actually was, this kind of gameplay is actually also fun.

 
"Well, as we don't know how it would be in the future, probably we don't need humans to operate a turret, it need to be fun and challenge to be a turret gunner, and the fact is it's not that exciting in space games."

Well, exactly. Tbh we probably won't even operate the ships, but then there'd be no stuff to play, so there's some limitations (like no 100% Newtonian model) ww

But balancing the turrets that can cover almost half the sphere, while the gunner has no permanent point they can relate to (compared to regular plane, where gravity and surface both guide you) is fairly tricky. My bet is FDev actually tried the single turret manning as well, in some alpha / betatesting, but the results were probably... well, similar to SC.
 
A hypothetical for the backers in the thread:

TheAgent's backroom gossip is looking good regarding subscription rewards ramping up. How would you feel if some of his other recent gossip ended up being true? IE:
  • SQ42 launching on consoles
  • Star Citizen being launched on consoles (tech willing)
Would any of that bother you? Would the pros outweigh the cons?

Recent Agent stuff here: [1],[2],[3]

checkmate FUDster! :D
 
Well Star Citizen is a video game in the end. There have been a few attempts at game develpment favoring ultra realism and those games never had a big audience.

So its realism versus gameplay and how you balance it. Realistically speaking space combat speeds would be so large that only computers would have the reaction time to hit something in addition to calculating all the vectors on the fly. Humans do this today by "feel" which is nothing else then doing the same "react & calculate" based on experience and training. Regardless how much you want to believe that humans are better then machines due to "improvisation" and "thinking outside the box" there are hard limits biologically for humans to accept. Go faster and machines become superior. If you now combine possible speed in raction with a high capacity for calculations you suddenly make humans obsolete except for providing targets.

Of course this would be extremely boring to a game player so most games allow competetive hands-on control disregarding realism.

I just dont know how much the current system in Star Citizen is by design considering all these things or simply a linear development allowing nothing else. We know the simulation limits of Cryengine and that a lot of things are not simulated at all but hardcoded (space and atmosphere for example). If these are hard states instead of simulated results then we ll probably neber will have simulated blood streams and the included diseases and toxins affecting us or healing.

FPS combat in Star Citizen already demonstrates really bad hit parameters or feedback making shooting targets a thing of luck mostly. If that is the foundation that makes FPS combat in SC so bad then its the same base for space combat in ships. No wonder that human gunners have such a bad time hitting anything and AI controlled turrets outperform them. I guess there is no underlying simulation that would allow players to become equal...not when the solution for AI turrets is to "hit 75% of the time".
 
I could see that part apply to the ARMA crowd and if you have good friends with good communications.

In dedicated ARMA groups you had your roles basically so you had your driver, gunner and loader and stuff which could mean looking through a vision slit for HOURS before anything really happened.

That said, when poopoo finally happened everything happened at once.
ARMA; that weird game where in 3 and a half hours my job was to load supply trucks with supplies and ammo as they arrived to supply the front and it was great!

Then again I have spent hours in MC in the second seat of a Vulture just running the KWS and counter measures, no weapons, just target IDing
 
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Ahh - the heady days of way back (cuffs back a tear) https://www.pcgamer.com/chris-roberts-star-citizen-is-a-pc-game-will-never-be-dumbed-down-for-a-lesser-platform/

“Star Citizen IS a PC game,” Roberts writes . “It will NEVER be dumbed down for a lesser platform. We will NOT limit the input options or supported peripherals to the lowest common denominator. We will NOT pass on features and technology just because they will only run on some hardware configurations.”

Roberts continues to list the things that he loves about developing for PC, and why a console port—for either PS4 or Xbox One—is unlikely to ever happen. “As far as consoles go Star Citizen will never be on the PS3 or Xbox 360. As for the next gen consoles, PS4 and Xbox One, we have NO CURRENT PLANS, but my stance remains open and is consistent with the many interviews I've given… IF the platform holders (Sony & Microsoft) allow us to update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures, IF they allow our community to openly interact with each other across platforms then I would CONSIDER supporting them.”
Problem is - it doesn't really matter what platform they develop for. There is still no game, and what there is runs like something stinky on even ridiculous PC builds that cost more than new cars. Remember when the more enthusiastic backers were blaming weak rigs and poor internet connections for the completely abysmal performance? Well, some people got together and built completely ridiculous rigs as a collaborative effort and plugged direct into an enterprise internet backbone just to show it made not one iota of difference. Even on enterprise kit it stunk. I know this, because I remember it, because I was one of them.

Just how poorly it'll perform on a console, even a next-gen one that isn't a netbook with a pretty ribbon and bow for show, remains to be seen - but it's going to be hilarious :D
 
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