The Star Citizen Thread V10

This shows a reasonable flight model being used by an FPS player using a mouse and keyboard and purely digital inputs...nothing more. That may seem to be in defence of the current flight model offering..and I suppose it is in a small way.
Well, the acceleration among all axes seems miles off, but that would explain part of the issue. Are the equivalent vids with analog axes?
 
This honestly saddens me. I like how the ceiling opens, the little bits of smoke, that fellow walking around etc. But the way the ship moves, I just don't understand it. Sure, ED is widely praised for its flight model, so I am not expecting SC to beat that. But this also looks worse than X4 (or X:rebirth). And NMS. Hell, this looks worse than Evochron and that was cobbled together by one dude.

Now I am not a coder. I don't understand game development. But surely if one dev at CIG would spend a lazy afternoon tweaking some numbers it has to end up so much better than whatever this is? The way the ship moves genuinely makes me think of how cars moved in a 3D race game I wrote when I was nine years old...
This is due to instant infinite accelerations. Movement you see in that vid is purely linear, no 2nd order movement (=acceleration, in terms of physics). Mostly due to instant thrust availability (while in ED and other games there's a time for power to throttle up) but also a flight model that was implemented in a very naive way...
I'll also add that on-foot player movement is also highly unrealistic, people move at 50kph, accelerate instantly, stop instantly, jump down entire flight of stairs like nothing, all this wearing a heavy armor, a space suit underneath, and weaponry.
 
This is due to instant infinite accelerations. Movement you see in that vid is purely linear, no 2nd order movement (=acceleration, in terms of physics). Mostly due to instant thrust availability (while in ED and other games there's a time for power to throttle up) but also a flight model that was implemented in a very naive way...
I'll also add that on-foot player movement is also highly unrealistic, people move at 50kph, accelerate instantly, stop instantly, jump down entire flight of stairs like nothing, all this wearing a heavy armor, a space suit underneath, and weaponry.
Thats cryengine for you.....
 
Thats cryengine for you.....
Sorry but don't put the blame on CryEngine please. First person controller was great, still has one of the best body awareness, even zero g levels were more satisfying than SC Eva (and Prey is even better at it), ground vehicles and even vtol, if not very fidelicious, were robust and fun. So I bet a more focused team and managed accordingly would have put a more robust, enjoyable and versatile flight model since long.

CIG has a long history of breaking things down. They'd probably had totally messed up Unreal Engine if they had chosen it.
 
Full release. Brings us back to the old question, did they intentionally lie or are they incompetent?
I had a look back at the old email from the period. In fairness here the actual quote from them:

"Looking back over the production cycle of the entire project, we are very much nearing the finishing line, and as a fellow backer I am very excited for you to see what is in store this year that is yet to be revealed."

Then they banged on about losing perks and such and how they couldn't give me a refund bleh bleh. Which I eventually got by using the standard defences.

The "nearing the finish line" was what was telling me "full release" I think it was a fair assumption to make with the clouds of time :) This was all summer 2016 and here's 2019 summer and nowhere near any sort of finish line by any reasonable definition Haha
 
He basically has the best deal in business today,probably why Forbes noticed.
Try and deliver a product.
Immediately pay yourself whatever you want.
If it fails you get rich.
If it’s a successful game,get richer.
Oh it's even worse than that.

With the magnitude of pledges people are handing over, you would normally expect to be buying shares in the company, not jpegs. Instead, those pledges boost CR's own share value. Based on the recent 10% sales of shares and CR's 75% shareholding, arguably he now owns about $350M in CIG shares. Thanks backers!!!

Think about the difference between a typical IPO capital raise and how CR has done it. You'll soon realise what a self serving business model he's managed to pull off.
 
Last edited:
Think about the difference between a typical IPO capital raise and how CR has done it. You'll soon realise what a self serving business model he's managed to pull off.
Perhaps, but the business model he's managed to pull off depends entirely upon begging, and none of his vast empire of corporate entities has released any games, in nearly a decade.

The lulz though, oh, the lulz produced are uncountable.
 
This is due to instant infinite accelerations. Movement you see in that vid is purely linear, no 2nd order movement (=acceleration, in terms of physics). Mostly due to instant thrust availability (while in ED and other games there's a time for power to throttle up) but also a flight model that was implemented in a very naive way...
I'll also add that on-foot player movement is also highly unrealistic, people move at 50kph, accelerate instantly, stop instantly, jump down entire flight of stairs like nothing, all this wearing a heavy armor, a space suit underneath, and weaponry.
Yup...but the medium to big ships do have this thruster/acceleration lag on all flight axes whilst the small fighters still don't..they're still point and shoot mini turrets and invariably flying those small fighters with a HOTAS, I have to constantly over correct or fight the flight model due to the massive digital thruster output even with analogue input from the HOTAS.

The larger ships, like I mentioned, fly similarly to E-D Anacondas/Cutters or T9's...especially in the case of the Starfarer Gemini which takes a mile to stop using reverse thrusters. The thruster input/output is still too digital but not as bad as it was.

The flight model certainly isn't a great one...but it definitely feels better for the likes of me who generally fly the medium to large cargo ships instead of fighters and always fly with a HOTAS.

Even the ground vehicles...purely digital on/off throttle and steering input using WASD with no incremental control....use the HOTAS flight stick similar to driving the buggy in E-D (Forward back for accelerate/brake. L and R for steering) and I magically have full analogue steering and throttle output. The same effect can be achieved by using an Xbox controller with the analogue triggers and thumbsticks.
 
Last edited:
I'm trying to make some sense of what is going on there.

Is the character loading a pistol into a stock as the actual discharge implement, while it's dancing skirt kills the other character with unattached pistol magazine greeblies as a mismatched hurt count actor?

Or is this fidelity?
 
This honestly saddens me. I like how the ceiling opens, the little bits of smoke, that fellow walking around etc. But the way the ship moves, I just don't understand it. Sure, ED is widely praised for its flight model, so I am not expecting SC to beat that. But this also looks worse than X4 (or X:rebirth). And NMS. Hell, this looks worse than Evochron and that was cobbled together by one dude.
I like the flying in ED.

I like the flying in SC (and hope some of the acceleration comes back)

I am actually playing NMS for the first time right now. I like the game, but absolutely hate the flight model.
 
I had a look back at the old email from the period. In fairness here the actual quote from them:

"Looking back over the production cycle of the entire project, we are very much nearing the finishing line, and as a fellow backer I am very excited for you to see what is in store this year that is yet to be revealed."

Then they banged on about losing perks and such and how they couldn't give me a refund bleh bleh. Which I eventually got by using the standard defences.

The "nearing the finish line" was what was telling me "full release" I think it was a fair assumption to make with the clouds of time :) This was all summer 2016 and here's 2019 summer and nowhere near any sort of finish line by any reasonable definition Haha
I don't see any real difference between nearing the finishing line and full release. Either way it was an attempt to keep you in by misleading you to believe some sort of finished product was coming.

Also, jeebus, that "as a fellow backer" part.

How low can CIG sink?

They make EA look postively good.
 
Sorry but don't put the blame on CryEngine please. First person controller was great, still has one of the best body awareness, even zero g levels were more satisfying than SC Eva (and Prey is even better at it), ground vehicles and even vtol, if not very fidelicious, were robust and fun. So I bet a more focused team and managed accordingly would have put a more robust, enjoyable and versatile flight model since long.

CIG has a long history of breaking things down. They'd probably had totally messed up Unreal Engine if they had chosen it.
Noted, I dont know nearly enough aboäut the engine in order to justify my comment. It just appears that CIG uses a lot of out-of-the-box mechanics from cryengine. The movement behavior seems to fit. That doesnt mean cryengine cant do good movement. Its just that CIG didnt manage to get it out of their own tools.
 
I like the flying in ED.

I like the flying in SC (and hope some of the acceleration comes back)

I am actually playing NMS for the first time right now. I like the game, but absolutely hate the flight model.
Yeah, the press throws NMS on the same heap as spacesims like Elite and Star Citizen, but NMS is not a space sim.
In my opinion it has no real flight model. And that is fine. It is a different genre.
 
Last edited:
Whilst I admittedly haven't seen anything like that in the PU...it does have it's moments, quite a lot of them...but hey, if it wasn't for the dodgy physics, we'd have nothing to make Youtube and twitch vids about, would we? :)

Last night...my mate, Mash. "Mole...there's something deeply wrong with your posh captain's bed in this ship mate."

Oops, 'sweary Scottish person moment' warning for the delicate little petals of virtue among us.

 
Last edited:
Yup...but the medium to big ships do have this thruster/acceleration lag on all flight axes whilst the small fighters still don't..they're still point and shoot mini turrets and invariably flying those small fighters with a HOTAS, I have to constantly over correct or fight the flight model due to the massive digital thruster output even with analogue input from the HOTAS.

The larger ships, like I mentioned, fly similarly to E-D Anacondas/Cutters or T9's...especially in the case of the Starfarer Gemini which takes a mile to stop using reverse thrusters. The thruster input/output is still too digital but not as bad as it was.
I get you i have a Freelancer and a Retaliator. My point stands yet, even with the Tali, and flying a HOTAS (Warthog and pedals here), the flight model exhibits zero second order movement. Manoeuver thrusters have infinite instant power, meaning you pull the stick, the ship instantly goes from zero rotational speed to its nominal rotational speed (as in, "digital movement" as you say). There's no "ease-in" that would be mandated by actual physics, so say if mav thrusters have a given fixed thrust (even with instant thrust availability !) you will have a progressive acceleration to nominal manoeuver speed, then a linear movement, then an 'ease out' once you stop, and all that depending on the thrust vs mass of the ship. The absence of that "ease in / ease out" is what is totally jarring on the video of that small ship taking off. Ships should feel substantially more "floaty" especially when in space, and then a bit tighter when flying at speed in atmo (due to atmo giving an increase reaction to movements).
What i suspect is ships still have zero mass and the flight model is a "baked in" set of variables, that give the desired manoeuver speeds, and that they never implemented the promised 2nd order movements. The result is ships moving like you are moving a mouse pointer. I guess it's to satisfy the "fps crowd" but that's definitely not good for a space sim.
Note that it's not asking the moon here, KSP has everything done right in that regard, ED too, and Jumpgate definitely did.
 
Top Bottom