The Star Citizen Thread V10

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After they applied the quick fix patch last night it was a night and day change from the 3.5.1 live release, they got rid of most of the silly ambient fog inside the ships and around landing areas as well as planetary atmospheres (it was like descending through thick fog)...to which I give a hearty thumbs up. It made the overall graphics look grainy and added absolutely nothing...
Won't somebody please think of Ben Parry...
 
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Continuing to play Devil's advocate, what is illegal about such a business model? If they have no legal obligation to deliver within a certain time frame (someone tell us all if there is, please), then why not continue this business model indefinitely, until such time as they are forced to eventually release the game (in whatever state) when the funds finally do dry up?
It might not be illegal in the "judicial" sense, but CIG's actions definitely have elements of fraud due to Robert's decision to knowingly misrepresent the status of his product in order to secure revenue (e.g. him lying during CitCon 2016 that they were trargeting a Dec 2016 release date for 3.0).

In CIG's defense, pretty much all companies engage in similar fraud as well as multi-billion corruption schemes, tax scams, bribery and god knows what else. Lying and dishonesty is generally just the tip of the iceberg. And it's not like Roberts bribed some politician to make sure a copy of SC was purchased by every school in the US...
 
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Continuing to play Devil's advocate, what is illegal about such a business model? If they have no legal obligation to deliver within a certain time frame (someone tell us all if there is, please), then why not continue this business model indefinitely, until such time as they are forced to eventually release the game (in whatever state) when the funds finally do dry up?
There are reasons why agencies like the SEC needed to be invented. Because of the widespread disastrous results of an unregulated market. This space needs to be regulated.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
In CIG's defense, pretty much all companies engage in similar fraud as well multi-billion corruption schemes, tax scams, bribery and god knows what else. Lying and dishonesty is generally just the tip of the iceberg. And it's not like Roberts bribed some politician to make sure a copy of SC was purchased by every school in the US...
The fact cases like Enron, Theranos or Lehman Brothers existed does not exempt CIG.

The scale of misleading or false advertising and misrepresentation (gap between sold and actuals) in the case of CIG is several orders of magnitude larger than your usual regular marketing “exaggerations”. If you can find examples of similar scale that went on unopposed for over 8 years I am all ears.
 
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The fact cases like Enron, Theranos or Lehman Brothers existed does not exempt CIG.
I not in any way supporting or justifying CIG's behavior. I am just saying that at least Roberts isn't bribing government agencies for personal benefit. However, he did commit what to me looks like fraud by misrepresenting his offering.

Some of apple's marketing is in some ways comparable to CIG's approach. Something like "what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone" is a pre-meditated, malicious statement with direct intent of lying to consumers. Many other companies too...
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I not in any way supporting or justifying CIG's behavior. I am just saying that at least Roberts isn't bribing government agencies for personal benefit. However, he did commit what to me looks like fraud by misrepresenting his offering.

Some of apple's marketing is in some ways comparable to CIG's approach. Something like "what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone" is a pre-meditated, malicious statement with direct intent of lying to consumers. Many other companies too...
Apple and those “other companies” get regularly sued by false advertising.
 
Todays Blast from the past

Reading through some feeds which link to old stuff and its really funny to delve back for a memory refresher :) Also I think this was mentioned in past threads already but just because some people think only nobodies have a negative opinion about SC and the industry secretly admires CIG and Roberts.....

Broussard chipping in has always been the most hilarious thing :D

I dug through that list ages ago and pulled out some top-line quotes. (It's a cool list, but a bit annoying that they paraphrased rather than quoted, given the FB links don't jump straight to the text):

George Broussard - [Duke Nukem Forever etc :D]:

Replying under Rob Irving's vid on DS's FB:

Thinks Rob Irving is clearly being nice / saying SC won't hit standards
Listened to the SC part. Anyone who works in games can tell that 1) Rob knows what he's talking about 2) he's being nice and 3) the game is out of control and will never ship to high standards :) it would be easy for common gamers to dismiss his comments or spin them, because they have no idea what they are talking about.

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People in the industry talk to that effect
And yeah this is just one data point. But like you said above, people in the industry talk - all the time. Everyone knows someone there or is 1-2 degrees separated.

---

Scott Bandy [Former Snr Prod at EA]:

On DS's FB: (Aug 2015) leaver rate high:

I know quite a few folks over at C.I.[G], and the rate at which folks are leaving, (and some of the roles), is not an encouraging sign in it's own right.

---

Thought those two were particularly interesting because they were bigger industry figures sticking their heads above the parapet.

Just for fun, here's some of the Rob Irving vid that prompted Broussard to comment:

On The Escapist article:
'Rumours like that just don't spring out of nowhere. That's the thing. There's certainly some truth to the article. Again, something I'm just trying to stay out of.'


On having too much money?:
'At some point you've gotta stop man'. Says his producer side. His designer side says 'Do it!'.... 'I get to do whatever I want' is the world he's built with the funding. He doesn't want the external forces telling him no, giving him deadlines. Sometimes that's not a good thing. (Argues you have to be able to say no to yourself...). 'You can't keep going' / adding ideas. Says it as a coder & as a designer.

(Ironically I've done some paraphrasing there ;))
 
Todays Blast from the past

Reading through some feeds which link to old stuff and its really funny to delve back for a memory refresher :) Also I think this was mentioned in past threads already but just because some people think only nobodies have a negative opinion about SC and the industry secretly admires CIG and Roberts.....

Great list there. While all are pertinent, my favourite is this:
"Anders Backman says CIG has no incentive to ship a game, except if forced by court order. Due to the ship-selling scheme."

And his actual quote:
"Anders Backman They'll never ship, unless forced by court order. Why, when a far from finished game with poopooloads of backer cash rakes in these mind boggling numbers from selling virtual virtual products (ie products that doesn't even exist in the virtual world yet). And I backed this project way back, luckily I found Brabens project shortly after and gave him twice the money. "


It's why I've been pointing out to backers CIG's business model. Don't they realise that if CIG is in a position of ZERO commercial risk, having started with nothing, funding nothing themselves, relying on ever increasing backer donations... there's little or no incentive to release? Why would CIG risk this business model which builds their company towards a $1 billion valuation on a strategy where they provide so little product for such large and growing revenue streams?

Backers need to join the dots.
 
Because CRoberts is a guy you can trust, with integrity and lots of morals. No need for guarantuees or accountability. Hes our best friend surely doing whats best :)
 
Because CRoberts is a guy you can trust, with integrity and lots of morals. No need for guarantuees or accountability. Hes our best friend surely doing whats best :)
Very trustyworthy and definitely of a high moral character
As for the technology in Wing Commander, Chris Roberts openly boasted to Larry that he had reverse-engineered the code from Battlehawks 1942. I've heard from former Origin coders that this was not actually true, that the engine code was original - just that Chris didn't write any of it. Either way, it's not a terribly flattering picture of Mr. Roberts.

Roberts' "focus and cleverness" in deciding to use sprites for the ships was nothing of the sort. Aside from the fact that he wasn't actually the principal coder for the graphics engine, Battlehawks 1942 was using this method in 1988, as indeed were most "3D" action games. It should be pointed out that there were very few fully 3D games at the time. This was before 3D accelerator cards were commonplace. Hardware acceleration didn't take off until the early to mid 1990s.

In spite of this, I do have respect for the great commercial success that the Wing Commander series achieved. I never cared much for the actual games, though. The stories were hackneyed and derivative (the Kilrathi were clearly ripped off from Larry Niven's Kzin - Roberts even had the gall to put a "Niven Sector" in WCII, so I guess we could give him the benefit of the doubt and call it "homage.") The arcade-style gameplay was too simplistic and repetitive, and the AI was awful.
Encountering Wing Commander at the show did not drive anyone at Lucas to force a delay in the release of SWotL. If someone from Lucas looked nervous it was probably due to their concern that Origin was showing a contemptuous disregard for everyone else and blatantly breaking the rules of the convention. Kudos to Origin for being pioneers of obnoxious trade show behavior. The other concern would obviously be to follow up on Chris Roberts' claim of reverse-engineering Battlehawks 1942 to see if it was true, or if he had gone beyond that into outright theft.
Chris was always a loudmouthed self-aggrandising punk without any real redeeming qualities or any abilities to back up his ego, and remains one to this day.
 
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