The Star Citizen Thread V10

Hello,

SC probably postponed for 10 years more if The Visionnaire is watching E3:


Bye.
While it looks amazing they do have a slightly simpler task ahead of them there.

Using already existing maps and "bumping" the height of flat objects to make them 3d is giving us a damn nice visual from up on high, even low altitude flight will be pleaseant.

It's basically google maps with some refinement on the 3d part.
That said i have a feeling that if you would land anywhere close to some of those buildings and trees it would not look as pleasant.
Looks a damn sight better than older flight sims though - but why the hell they sell a SIM to Xbox is beyond my understanding.

Here's an example of close up graphics of the ground so they are cheating a bit.

 
Agreed. They do have a lot of lore, but to me it seems somewhat derivative (although I am biased). What is unique about SC's universe? It feels like a weird fusion of Star Trek, Star Wars, a bunch of other scifi universes (Bladerunner?) and 21st century capitalism/consumerism.

Compare that to Asimov's Foundation series or better yet Frank Herbert's Dune. Herbet's world is mind blowing; the lack of computers, the role of spice, mentants, the feudal/imperial political structure, the Spacing Guild. Granted all these elements are based on existing tropes and historical events, but the way Herbert combined them, made them more than the sum of their parts.

snip

I could have come up with SC's lore in a few weeks of dedicated work.
As an avid Sci-Fi fan reading a LOT of books on this topic I m going to say that the lore, even tho maybe plentiful (I dont know...is it?) I am not impressed with SCs story, history or characters. The graphics help a lot to trigger your own fantasy but the world/game itself offers very little to support any big picture. When I take on a new book these days its almost always 2 things that hook me.

  • plot/story
  • characters
And of course the best ones combine these 2 elements to create something special in my mind that I yearn for. I also demand a high level of technology, be it fictional or not...as long as it is detailed.
At my age I dont simply accept fairy tales anymore but demand a certain degree of realism. As I know a lot more about the topic since my 20s my expectations also grew. Today I m unable to enjoy most cincema movies due to their limits and focus (action, eye candy, 90-120 mins). Character conflict and development can be incredibly fascinating to me and this is an area only experienced and well.....good authors excell in. Earlier in my life I thought books were boring and of course my limited attention span didnt work. Today I value the level of tension, realism and story building that a book can provide which a movie simply cannot.

I prefer high-level sci-fi topics but I gotta say that there are books from the 50s which also hook me even tho their described technology is laughably primitive and simple compared to todays standards.

Star Citizen shows a remarkable lack of background story or realism to the uninvolved which I clearly am. I understand and accept todays games focus and limitations but if you advertise "fidelity" then you should at least attempt to provide some IMO. Maybe SQ42 will drive the character focus a bit more but I dont have any hopes after watching the extremely cheesy and simple dialogues so far. There is nothing complex or mysterious about Star Citizen to me. Nothing of the company complexities like in shadowrun or the level of technology that permeates into every humans life down to the lowest caste and changes humanity after it cracks FTL travel, artificial gravity or tolerance to the void. In this regard Cyberpunk has a high bar to crack for me. Graphics are just a secondary thing and nothing exceptional anymore today.

Star Citizen instead has only one strength....its visuals. And that strength already isnt anything special anymore. The characters are either forgettable or non-existing (because tech-demo). The tech demonstrated in the game is primitive or old-school and usually handwavium rather then believable mechanic. Some games try to go after the 80s flair specifically and intentionally while providing a high-tech environment but in SCs case I d dare to say the result is because of incompetence and lack of skill rather then intent.

Maybe Star Citizen will become more appealing once they start with NPC story-lines allowing players to experience a certain NPCs past and development due to your own performance but I really doubt that. By this I mean starting small and depending on your results in each mission giving observers the impression of how capabilities and options increase. Maybe even friendships which allow you to delve into a NPCs past and inner thoughts....creating an empathic link rather then a simple "hey I need money, better talk to Miles" train of thought.

SC missions I know of are extremely simple, shallow and have no impact on the world. This is something CIG needs to work on in order to reach a level of quality that matches todays games. The thing is that these things are hardly dependant on "blockers" except maybe if the "blocker" (how convinient that this vague term is simply accepted by the community and can mean anything) in question is the lack of skill or talent. But then SC never will become what I expect of it.

If we stay with the terms of "shallow" and "simple" pretty much every aspect of Star Citizen today matches these descriptions. The game world is simple, the planets...while looking good enough...have next to no content and are pretty shallow when it comes to diversity. Character development right now is simple...there is only one goal ingame....aquiring the next ship and more credits aka monetary increase of value (both of which can be paid for with RL money). If you deny this explanation then the only alternative is that Star Citizen is a sandbox with no goal. Some games provide this but at least they challenge the player with ingame mechanics and features. Star Citizens only challenge right now are its bugs which you fight and battle from the first minute. If you indeed dont encounter any the gameplay consists of bliss and pacification rather then engaging gamepplay. NPCs are simple and shallow. Companies providing all the ships are non-entities meaning you know of them because of the ship you fly or the armor/weapon you use but otherwise they have no impact on your playstyle or experience. The gameplay I m able to witness is bland, boring and not engaging at all tho I will admit that watching isnt the same as playing. There simply is no complexity that would entice me to try it out or play for myself tho that depends on an individuals preferences.

The flight model is unfinished, buggy, unrealistic and arcadey
The mining is simplistic and would drive me nuts due to its lack of complexity
The planets/moons are looking simple to me, due to the level or repetition in tiles and if people are praising the level of detail on the ground I can only say....its a barren landscape....how hard is it to look good?
Map navigation, ship travel, character movement, level of technology demonstrated on stations, atmosphere.....all these things are extremely simple or shallow in Star Citizen.


And people have the nerve to call ED "shallow"? I mean thats your right of course but its when these people praise SC for qualities that they deny ED that they instantly lose any credibility with me.

For example my wife also would consider ED shallow and boring. But she would at least stay consistent and simply disregard Star Citizen because its so much worse then ED is in these terms. And yet this is a behavior that you encounter often whenever you get into contact with the SC community. I asked myself about the reasons for this disparity in perception and because people in question usually are not forthcoming with info or truthful have to explain the reasons to myself instead.

You are a dreamer.
You put most of your focus on eye candy.
You are invested.
You have an ulterior motive
You are a troll

Now some of these points are not necessarily negative in nature. But they all usually are perceived as such. The term "newbie" is a descriptor that I used a lot in my past....often on myself. Today its a label of shame and ridicule. Pay to win also is a descriptor that isnt negative at first. Instead it gives you a hint of what to expect. But when it comes to fairness or equality (something that the west clearly values more then the east) these games usually fail. Being a dreamer today has the same taboo like "being a gamer" 30 years ago. Its an immediate title of shame and wastefulness. Dreaming is only "good" if you translate this quality into monetary success. Otherwise its a waste and something to be laughed about.

I have the luxury of time available today. And while only a few years ago I filled that void of activity with games I since have changed my perspective on life and how to use my time on this world. And whenever I have free time on my hands I dont switch to "braindead" mode or bombard myself with noise and eye explosions but rather "think" about things. You could say I dream just that today many of my "dreams" examine various lacks I observe in the world. A war, another humans situation, my own relationship etc etc. I dream up different states/conditions then think about how realistic they are, or how they came together and of course how I can influence them. Coming to conclusions or understanding isnt something that happens in a flash (mostly, for somesituations they do). You absolutely require time doing nothing but think in order to progress. You either do it consciously or subconsciously but its a requirement you cannot jump.

Star Citizen has very early lost my interest as a game and gained my fascination with the human psychy. Its because listening to SC fans describing the game as something its clearly not that peaks my interest as to why these people perceive SC so different to me or why they lie in the first place. Often enough its simply pushing back. You think you are under attack so you defend yourself. And because this is the Frontier forum most defend by lashing out against Elite Dangerous.

I was about to write a whole lot more but I think it would side-track even more then it already does and it would result in an absolute massive wall of text :)

We do have a wide range of SC fans in this thread (most people are skeptics by now, only a few keep an optimistic view) but the above is the reason why I value the insight of some and simply disregard others. I dont know any of these people and while some provide insight into their lifes its not necessary or a requirement (in addition its a description given by a stranger on the internet so.....). Just the quality of their posts is responsible for how I perceive these individuals.

Now the number of adults or "grown ups" is already pretty scarce on the internet but I feel that the SC community collected an unhealthy amount of qualities that are responsible for its perception of being "toxic".
 
While it looks amazing they do have a slightly simpler task ahead of them there.

Using already existing maps and "bumping" the height of flat objects to make them 3d is giving us a damn nice visual from up on high, even low altitude flight will be pleaseant.

It's basically google maps with some refinement on the 3d part.
That said i have a feeling that if you would land anywhere close to some of those buildings and trees it would not look as pleasant.
Looks a damn sight better than older flight sims though - but why the hell they sell a SIM to Xbox is beyond my understanding.
It's on PC. The whole announcement revolves around how Game Pass is coming to PC as an extension of the existing XBox store integration — a lot of what they presented was there to give the game pass a wide lineup on launch.

Here's an example of close up graphics of the ground so they are cheating a bit.
Because of course CIG don't cheat at all...
 
Because of course CIG don't cheat at all...
Did i say that? They all cheat in one way or another depending on the purpose of the game they are designing.

Im just saying that their graphics are used in a completely different manner. One is designed to look pretty from above and the other are designed to try and look pretty from every angle...not that they succeed.
 
Did i say that? They all cheat in one way or another depending on the purpose of the game they are designing.

Im just saying that their graphics are used in a completely different manner. One is designed to look pretty from above and the other are designed to try and look pretty from every angle...not that they succeed.
You are right, from below after clipping through is also an angle, in a way~
 
Oh, I don't know. Have you seen The Core? :p
Why I'm afraid I most definitely had the pleasure old Chap. The whole experience of surviving death by Doomsday pontificate was quite memorable. I must also admit to remaining absolutely incredulous, as it's difficult to take that Zimsky fellow remotely seriously. You see, I fear a tad of insanity appears to run in that family. Especially ever since that time I was happily strolling through the woods on Terrare in Sol system. Forgot the blasted insect repellent and got stung by a terran trackerjacker. Obnoxious piece of work that. But even more obnoxious--and by pure coincidence---was being confronted by Zim's freakish blue haired doppleganger twin who had been stalking me all along. Who then insisted on engaging in a bizarre monologue despite my mortal plight. Spewing an even more terrifying degree of hand wavium, Doomsday bum nuggetry terrae talking points which old Zim could only hope to achieve in his wet dreams......


134430
 
The problem is there is no definition of what constitutes a termination or a breach of contract in the GLA. Both parties here are guilty of having signed off that weak agreement that opens the door to everything... CT will have to prove actual damages just to start having a leg to stand on, that's why CiG can afford to be that cavalier at the moment.
Ok just my folky take but:

The SQ42 stand-alone claim dodges all that though right? Because in part it's about unlicensed use of Cryengine code.

I think I get what you're saying - demonstrating damage re actual license breaches is gonna be like wrestling a room of candy floss. (Tough going, sticky, and probably unedifying). If Crytek really are on a revenge kick first and foremost though, does that ultimately matter? IE if they can win that SQ42 point they presumably end up with a 'strip out the code' ruling, or something comparable, mess with SQ42, which messes with SC, and it all hurts Chris and friends.

That's if all the dominoes and expert analysis go their way of course.
 
  • Ortwin seems to have forgotten some key punctuation. Purely by accident. Developing & selling SQ42 as a separate game may still be an issue. (Previously CIG claimed only at the point of launching the game from a non-SC launcher would they be culpable of the above. Seems they are separate clauses though).
  • CIG's own lawyer's lang seems to have been used against them, saying Cryengine code is in the game (?)
  • The new lawyers are cheaper, so that throws the bond valuation off. (Plus something about 2mil being a suspiciously made-up valuation).
  • Crytek say they're out for justice more than money.
  • They claim the 'score' is kinda 1:1 now, because they got CIG to give them the code fixes post-litigation. So the case isn't a landslide for CIG as claimed, making the grounds for bond shakier still.
  • GuardFreq guy suspects Crytek & Skadden parted ways because Crytek really do want blood, won't have wanted to agree on a target settlement figure, annoying Skadden who'll just want the cash pot at the end of the rainbow.
  • GuardFreq guy is impressed with the new plucky little lawyers. Thinks they landed blows, although glossed over Crytek's financial stability regarding the bond.
  • Says ultimately in the judge's hands now though. She may still push for bond, but there seems to be claims that require discovery now. (If bond required will be a test of Crytek's thirst for blood).
And some other stuff.

BUM

(But Understand MyfriendthatIamnotalawyer).
why is Crytek so obsessed with crucifying Roberts? Are they envious/mad they didn't receive any brand recognition/lucrative brand royalties these last 7+ years? Because Roberts opted to be a jerk and not to invite them to his multi million dollar rave? Because after years of stratospheric flight being fueled with franchise hype, the CI enterprise potentially appears to be approaching the apex where it might be flaming out. Especially if what you mentioned about SQ42 is true. Not trolling here, just trying to understand the logic of Crytek's financial? Personally motivated? position behind the legal drama. Why the ongoing push to character assassinate Roberts? When -- should he ever suspect CI has become insolvent--Roberts would most likely file for Chapter 11 (and a one way ticket to an undisclosed tropic island somewhere) instead of the more punitive Chapter 7?

edit: nvm. Saw your follow up post just now
 
why is Crytek so obsessed with crucifying Roberts? Are they envious/mad they didn't receive any brand recognition/lucrative brand royalties these last 7+ years? Because Roberts opted to be a jerk and not to invite them to his multi million dollar rave? Because after years of stratospheric flight being fueled with franchise hype, the CI enterprise potentially appears to be approaching the apex where it might be flaming out. Especially if what you mentioned about SQ42 is true. Not trolling here, just trying to understand the logic of Crytek's financial? Personally motivated? position behind the legal drama. Why the ongoing push to character assassinate Roberts? When -- should he ever suspect CI has become insolvent--Roberts would most likely file for Chapter 11 (and a one way ticket to an undisclosed tropic island somewhere) instead of the more punitive Chapter 7?

edit: nvm. Saw your follow up post just now
I'm sure they do fancy some cash too, and we're all just guessing about motives, but a bonus angle is:

- They just feel dumb for accepting an upfront payment rather than a percentage before CIG became a cash cow.

I suspect the biggest stimulus of the known possibilities could be:

- 'They kicked us when we were down with the SQ42 split, thinking we were dead'

The 'we did all the work on the demo' stuff seems weak to me. It seems to be contested by ex-Crytek guys at the time. IE they'd already switched teams. But:

- The general exodus of staff, both top brass involved with the GLA and coal face devs.

Yeah, that probably still burns too...

Add in the branding slights and public smack talk and all that and there are plenty of emotional & financial triggers I guess.
 
Last edited:
The three brothers who run Crytek are of Turkish origin. Family is very important in Turkish culture. The idea that CI have taken them for mugs and shown a lack of respect is not going to go down well.

Not quite Marlon Brando in the Godfather levels, it is worth considering that the personal insult may well over-ride the business damage.
 
The three brothers who run Crytek are of Turkish origin. Family is very important in Turkish culture. The idea that CI have taken them for mugs and shown a lack of respect is not going to go down well.

Not quite Marlon Brando in the Godfather levels, it is worth considering that the personal insult may well over-ride the business damage.
I m not sure if that holds true. In the end these guys are business men and I find that in the corporate world things like "I dont like you" or "you said nasty things about me" are stuff that is forgotten as soon as theres money to be made. People dont have to like each other but usually these folks are professional and mature enough to ignore past rivalries and conflicts in order to make money.

Anyway I dont know these guys and I also dont have any insight into Cryteks history. I remember the outrage when they refused to pay their employees and all that but I dont believe that the current lawsuit really is "personal"
 
I m not sure if that holds true. In the end these guys are business men and I find that in the corporate world things like "I dont like you" or "you said nasty things about me" are stuff that is forgotten as soon as theres money to be made. People dont have to like each other but usually these folks are professional and mature enough to ignore past rivalries and conflicts in order to make money.

Anyway I dont know these guys and I also dont have any insight into Cryteks history. I remember the outrage when they refused to pay their employees and all that but I dont believe that the current lawsuit really is "personal"
I'm not sure if that holds true. In the end these guys are Turkish and I find that in Turkey things like "I don't like you" or "you said nasty things about me" are stuff that is never forgotten no matter what. Turkish people can like each other but usually these folks never ignore past rivalries and conflicts.
 
I'm not sure if that holds true. In the end these guys are Turkish and I find that in Turkey things like "I don't like you" or "you said nasty things about me" are stuff that is never forgotten no matter what. Turkish people can like each other but usually these folks never ignore past rivalries and conflicts.
I accept your evaluation of turkish people as the couple of friends I have who are turkish probably dont represent the overall behavior of these people. I m not sure if the copying of my wording was necessary tho or if I did something that would result in such a response...
 
I accept your evaluation of turkish people as the couple of friends I have who are turkish probably dont represent the overall behavior of these people. I m not sure if the copying of my wording was necessary tho or if I did something that would result in such a response...
Don't take it personally, it's just a funny pattern that I find rather amusing. If it offended you or you find it distasteful, I apologize for that, as it wasn't my intention to belittle you.
 
As an avid Sci-Fi fan reading a LOT of books on this topic I m going to say that the lore, even tho maybe plentiful (I dont know...is it?) I am not impressed with SCs story, history or characters.
I don't know if SC has lore, I just know I don't like it.

Here ya go, this playlist is almost all SC lore related:

Astro Pub Galactic Historian




And direct from the source, lore of all the non-existent systems:

Loremaker's guide to the galaxy
 
Last edited:
Is 3.5.1.x still stable? Have they done anything to bring the fog back in, or has that been shelved after the PU launch version looked like a London Pea Souper inside your ship?
 
Top Bottom