the station bandit last night

I'm an avid roleplayer in real life, and usually something of a White Knight in online gaming. I plan to start my "main" Elite character as a Federal Trader (as per the KS tier), but I suspect I'll drift into bounty hunting, general doo-goodery and possibly shifting my allegiance from the Federation to the Alliance, or even some independent border world.

I will probably dip my toe into playing Iron Man with the Imperial Bounty Hunter start, and try to get into a mindset of more hard edged character raised in the Empire. Less White Knight and more Hard Boiled, if you will.

But I will never be nasty. There may come times when I take you out, possibly even often, but I will never be a about it, and I will never feel the urge to insult you after your loss. For the Imperial, I'm gonna go with the sentiment of "A man's* got to have a code".

*I'd have used "person" but I suspect fewer would have recognised it then.

Hi Adept,
Your approach sounds interesting and good fun.

I know you took exception to me dipping my toe in PvP action, so it's interesting to see you plan to Bounty Hunt and do doo-goodery.

In order to do so, I guess you need people breaking the rules/ moral code so you have people to bounty hunt?

So, we all need each other out there in some way or another.

See what I mean?
 
I, too, will likely play multiple roles should I be allowed. I hope to not miss interaction with another commander because he felt having to drop cargo (and making life or death choices) were not what he wants in the game. BUT, I respect their choice to do so!

All that will happen is that people who are attacked by pirates will do 1 of 2 things:

  1. Move to Single Player Online Mode
  2. Ignore/block the pirate Cmdr

From what I can see pirates will pretty much have to target NPCs 99% of the time.
 
Hi Adept,
Your approach sounds interesting and good fun.

I know you took exception to me dipping my toe in PvP action, so it's interesting to see you plan to Bounty Hunt and do doo-goodery.

In order to do so, I guess you need people breaking the rules/ moral code so you have people to bounty hunt?

So, we all need each other out there in some way or another.

See what I mean?

NPC's can be pirates.
 
Hi Adept,
Your approach sounds interesting and good fun.

I know you took exception to me dipping my toe in PvP action, so it's interesting to see you plan to Bounty Hunt and do doo-goodery.

In order to do so, I guess you need people breaking the rules/ moral code so you have people to bounty hunt?

So, we all need each other out there in some way or another.

See what I mean?

I have no issue with pirates (though the air will lbe blue when I get bested by them)

Pirates are a totally different beast than goons IMO.

Pirates attack to make money, their targets will have cargo (or a nice ship when that is in place). They make a risk/reward choice based on the game world.

Goons mindlessly kill people and try to be a wrench in the machine. They have no worry about death because the game world has no meaning to them, they happily die and start from scratch, even if they all get wiped out so long as 1 person is grieved ... ideally an iron man with multiple hrs invested he is happy.

That is how I see it anyway but I realise many don't.
 
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Going to assume this is a genuine question ;)
Have you ever role played.
*Looks at Liqua´s avatar*
I see, if somebody is being a victim of griefers is just a Drama Queen
-----
That being said, I have another genuine question:)
Have you ever roleplayed in a persistent world/roleplay server- one char per account- with open pvp, DM events, iron man permadeath? Role playing evil and doing a good job of it is very difficult- (manipulation is the key word for Rping a evil character)
BUT, in hardcore roleplay servers there are rules- even for evil chars.

In my opinion, the lack of permadeath in Elite Dangerous really strongly favors griefers. I d love to see an option for perma-death.

----
Theagan Black
What's the point in killing without any real profit?
...or motivation. Precisely. Strictly forbidden in roleplay servers. Officially considered griefing.

---
Frontier T.j
The Criminality thread in the DDF http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6276 Migh hold some clues into what they propose.
:)
 
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All that will happen is that people who are attacked by pirates will do 1 of 2 things:

  1. Move to Single Player Online Mode
  2. Ignore/block the pirate Cmdr

What makes you think that?

I for one will shoot back, try to get even in the actual fight, or at a later opportunity. Heck with the group I'm playing in we could even actively seek them out or be contacted by third party players to secure a route! All in good sports and with great fun!

There, already proven you wrong :)

Having solo mode is a very good thing. It keeps players busy who would otherwise not play the game.

From what I can see pirates will pretty much have to target NPCs 99% of the time.

I believe that will go for all players, not only pirates. Having seen only a few single player scenario's, fighting them will be a blast as well.
 
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All that will happen is that people who are attacked by pirates will do 1 of 2 things:

  1. Move to Single Player Online Mode
  2. Ignore/block the pirate Cmdr

From what I can see pirates will pretty much have to target NPCs 99% of the time.

I disagree. I see exceptions where you see absolutes.
But I won't argue it. I'm sure some will do as you say.
Perhaps even the majority I'm sad to say. I think they will limit the expanse and spirit of the game with limiting themselves to choices that limit their own gameplay, again, enabling or giving power to the pirate and/griefer.
See you in space (or not)
 
I disagree. I see exceptions where you see absolutes.
But I won't argue it. I'm sure some will do as you say.
Perhaps even the majority I'm sad to say.

Maybe, ..., maybe the majority of the fraction of backers active on this forum. Maybe... But many others will take MP for what it is. After release there will be an influx of players who see that this is a lot more than "Elite1984 with updated gfx", it is a true sandbox with multiplayer interactions (coop & competitive).

Personally I can't see the difference of being shot by NPC's or PC's (I can see there can be more fun in shooting a skilled PC), but if people get frustrated by being shot by PC-pixels, then they should play the offline game, it's what they payed for. Otherwise it would be kind of sadistic to play ED :)

Anyway most encounters will be with NPC so... this will all be a non-issue in the final release :)
 
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I know - but Adept took exception to Human pirates (albeit 'griefers' around Zelada), so the point is valid.

Hardly. You suggested that he need's human pirates to be a bounty hunter, he never mentions targeting human pirates he just says he wants to try bounty hunter and admits that he may take out human pilots. So you're not making any point at all.
 
I'd like to point out that which others have, pirating is not mutually-interchangeable with griefing.
There will be spectrum variances to pirating ranging from unauthorized scavenging and smuggling up to shakedown artists (that persuade a trader to hire them as an escort ..or anything could happen) upwards to the extreme of chaotic evil (kill everyone and money is just a tool to that end).
MOST will be in the middle somewhere. Some will have a strict code, some 'it's more of a guideline'. All of it will add depth and color that, quite frankly, without it the game will be so much less.
Keep that in mind once the balances are instituted and it's more than a boredom killfest out there? :)
 
One last mention..
Many say NPCs are too easy. I suspect there will be a wide range of NPCs. With some far more difficult than most human commanders, to the point of needing a team with effort to eradicate. I doubt they will have a spectrum (but hope they do) of the (see above post) type of code or morality. I imagine some will make griefing look like kids horseplay by comparison.
Think I'm wrong?
 
If it got that bad, I'd simply turn off my computer and come back another day. I certainly wouldn't let it spoil my game! It's not like these people can camp 24hrs a day 7 days a week.

Ever played EVE at a high level? 24hrs a day 7 days a week camping is something that is the norm to alliances or large group warfare. the point is, it's a numbers game, if I have the team covering all timezones and the motivation (for whatever reason) we can make your life hell in the "All Pilots" group by gank popping your ship/ships time and time again and stealing your stuff. If I get a bounty, its honour points for myself and the crew I run with. Plus, we can just blue on blue pop our ships and keep the bounties ourselves.

Now, of course you could drop down to another level of the game, a lower more base level, a basic carebear level of the game in other words, but if you do, I've won, we've won. I've/we've deprived you of being able to play the game how you wanted to play it ... you know ... in an open all player dynamic universe.

Now, some might say, "sure I can go elsewhere, ED's a big place". Well, my team and I will laugh at that because you are failing to realise the majority of pilots will hang out in core space systems "thinking" they are in someway safe! The reality is, their innocent thinking will mean they are cannon fodder and part of the stable diet of the day, night whatever. Oh and the bounty hunters and the small or large packs of do gooders that might want to clear us out? They are at a disadvantage, griefing will always win the day, because it so damn easy to make money. Let the majority do the hard work, gank em and steal their stuff! let the groups of do gooders bring the fight, kill em, steal their stuff too!

Now, you turn your computer off, we've won there as well. We have now laid down a level of control in the game which will give us bragging rights on forums like this and elsewhere around the world of ED. You may not like us, but thats okay, you may not like what we've done to your game, but thats okay too. Our egos and your suffering and whining will make it so much the better to play.

Plus ... from time to time, we'll get a halfway decent fight out of it! :D

I played Elite in 1984, Elite multiplayer is what I have waited for, for what seems an eternity. Getting into fights and being outnumbered is what I fully expect to happen ALOT. I'm sure once the full game is opened up...there will be simply too much space for this to happen to you over and over and over again.

You expect it do you? Too much space you say? Hmm? So when you have hundreds of groups from the same team all on TS people 8 or more people deep, roaming around looking for kills easy or hard for the adrenaline rush? What part of that do you think you are going to be able to handle before you do the whole dropping to carebear level or call it quits for the night (after you've lost your shiny ship, again and again and again)?

Yes it may well be a problem in Alpha, but I can't see it being a problem in the final game at all. Especially if FD balance stuff, and stations have adequate response and protection.

Stations are one thing, the rest of space is another matter entirely.

Edit

As for at what point would I say; "this is bloody hopeless and a waste of my time!" - To be totally honest,

I wouldn't say that. Because as frustrating as it may well be, I would still be grinning for ear to ear because I was actually able to play Elite in the first place. :)

See that right there? That smells like overconfidence. That is something that is easily broken on the battlefield when the shear weight of numbers griefing wise start to hammer home the truth of it. You know, it's that gutt falling feeling you get when you are trying to grin from ear to ear but you suddenly realise its not funny anymore. I've seen and heard many go right through that. You think because its a game you've waited years for its going to be some how different for you? I highly doubt it. :D
 
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I really can't wait to get involved in the multi-player, The fact is, I will be letting anyone and anybody who wants to try out Elite play on my account (friends that is, on my computer) if they decide to shoot up everything in sight that is fine with me (once the game goes to retail it will be a different story ...)

Bring on the moaning :)
 
Bob - Look. I appreciate/ recognise your noble and purist view that: Alpha is for testing, people should not be 'playing' ED at this point as there is proper testing to do... But that is not the reality is it.

When I paid my £200, which by the way I am happy to make as a donation having played Elite and Frontier for countless hours as a boy, FD did not give me a rule book that I need to abide by or a list of tests that I need to complete on their behalf. Indeed, quite the opposite - I reference again the Braben interview where he thinks Greifing is fun and interesting.

I joined because I want to play, pure and simple, and play how I want to play. There really are no rules apart from survive enough to be able to afford replacement ships when you die.

There is nothing wrong with that, and I think there will be an ever increasing number of individuals that intend to 'play' how they want now we are entering into Beta.

So, by maintaining this purist view there is an ethical code about how people should behave in a fictional universe and 'holier than thou' attitude that anyone that does not conform is an 'idiot', I think you will forever be disappointed.

Oh no, You are dead wrong. This game is a full, deep galaxy with all the intended wonder and immersion possibilities. Well beyond a 'griefers' way to play it. And we the other players intend to make sure those other ways are available; even in multiplayer. FD please take note!
 
The notion that "it is only a game you should not let it bother you" always confuses me in videogames.

It is only videogames it happens with. If I started playing football on a golf putting green, or picked up a players ball and threw it away and then feigned surprise as "its only a game" I dont think it would go down so well.

So I have 1 possible suggestion............

Now, I am not commenting on playing as a pirate, and, it isnt really even directly related to the alpha of this game as am sure these issues should be fixed.

My feeling is it is because of the anonymity of the game. I could have a perfectly respectable trader and then have another character and simply create mayhem with it and no one would be any the wiser, where as in the real world golf course I would be banned........

Which leads to my question......................................

If I am attacked by a griefer and choose to block them, will it block their character or will it block their account, because the way I see it, perhaps it would be "slightly" more of a deterrent if the full account was blocked.

ALSO

any crimes committed (I mean acts of murder not acts of piracy, which I would have thought the software could tell the difference (depending on if their target has cargo, whether they were killed even after dumping it) could be recorded against that account, so even if they were playing as a clean trader, the sins of their other accounts, whilst not affecting them in game with AI, could make their name show up as orange on my radar as a potential person I dont want to liaise with.

After all, in any other "game" being a *** tends to have long term consequences, rather than just delete your character and start again free from peoples blocklists.
I guess (if you got this far) my main problem if infinitely being able to delete and restart new characters with no link to your account. (esp in Iron Man where 100hrs + could be ended just by 5 prats playing about in sidewinders with no investment

The DFF is explicit about that; its by account...
 
One last mention..
Many say NPCs are too easy. I suspect there will be a wide range of NPCs. With some far more difficult than most human commanders, to the point of needing a team with effort to eradicate. I doubt they will have a spectrum (but hope they do) of the (see above post) type of code or morality. I imagine some will make griefing look like kids horseplay by comparison.
Think I'm wrong?

Hope so. That would be awesome, and make game play much richer.
 
i just needed to +1 this. this is exactly the way i will approach Elite : Dangerous

and "griefing" in a mmo type scenario is simple. the "victim" has all the power, just use it. drop out & go where you can have some fun. if you cannot understand that simple truth, you will likely not be a very happy camper :D

took me a while, but that is all there is to it.

final addition, to discuss "griefing" in the context of ed's current state, its proposed plans and the time FDEV have to modify until gamma makes this thread sound pretty silly.

/wave

Yeah,.. Ok..It's definitely time to start talking about griefing!
 
Oh no, You are dead wrong. This game is a full, deep galaxy with all the intended wonder and immersion possibilities. Well beyond a 'griefers' way to play it. And we the other players intend to make sure those other ways are available; even in multiplayer. FD please take note!

I intend to take full advantage too :)
 
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