There is MORE support for a separate PvE galaxy than there was for an Ironman one (go and check the poll in the DDF archive if you don't believe it) and yet they delivered Ironman because (although a minority) it was obviously a significant minority. You do realise there are already 2 separate galaxies, right?
The Tri-poll: What does multiplayer mean to YOU?
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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There is MORE support for a separate PvE galaxy than there was for an Ironman one (go and check the poll in the DDF archive if you don't believe it) and yet they delivered Ironman because (although a minority) it was obviously a significant minority. You do realise there are already 2 separate galaxies, right?
2 possible solutions (at least) - the game engine doesn't instance you with other players (I.E. you will only meet NPC pirates), or you accept a PvP flag for the duration of the mission (you'd be aware of it when accepting the mission).
How are the galaxies separate? It´s only filter checkboxes filtering out player types from your experience, or did I get this wrong?
I don´t even plan to play Ironman, I´d only play it if I would be in the universe with everyone else, trying to keep the status as long as possible. What´s the point in only playing in an Ironman universe where the population is constantly reduced because they´re kicked out of the universe on death.
how should PvP flags be explained in an "in fiction" way.
How does the universe explain the difference between an AI robot and a human ?
Why do we need this discrimination anyway?
I'm not sure how the existing group system or many other game features can be explained in fiction either. I think that's a pretty strange way to decide if a feature should be included or not.
In effect, separate, in that Ironmen will NEVER see the Normal players and vice versa.
If you didn't like that solution, use the other one - you don't get instanced with other players (in PvE) when you're on an escort mission.
I just thought the PvP flag one MIGHT actually entice SOME PvEers to get into PvP a little bit.
There are so many things in almost all games that don't really make sense... at some stage you have to suspend so-called realism for fun/entertainment (unless your game is intended to be an absolutely accurate simulation of course).
Okay, how about bringing the PvE players into everyone else's game with... another group? Bear with me...
You still have the PvP/PvE option, plus a third option (PvAll?) which will assume you don't care which side you're playing. You can be matched with players in either group, and any PvAll players that are in the same instance can engage in combat if desired.
If you're in an instance that contains PvP players, this will act as normal. However, if you're in an instance that contains PvE players, the PvE player will not be able to shoot or be shot by you.
This means all (non-Ironman) players can appear in the PvAll group, increasing the number of players there, while those who want immersion can still stick to PvP, and those who don't want player combat can stick to PvE. The PvP and PvE groups still cannot meet, as explained before, but I think allowing players to choose to appear in both should keep all the advantages of a separate PvE group while also bringing PvE players into the "full" game, if you like.
You still have the PvP/PvE option, plus a third option (PvAll?) which will assume you don't care which side you're playing. You can be matched with players in either group, and any PvAll players that are in the same instance can engage in combat if desired.
If you're in an instance that contains PvP players, this will act as normal. However, if you're in an instance that contains PvE players, the PvE player will not be able to shoot or be shot by you.
This means all (non-Ironman) players can appear in the PvAll group, increasing the number of players there, while those who want immersion can still stick to PvP, and those who don't want player combat can stick to PvE. The PvP and PvE groups still cannot meet, as explained before, but I think allowing players to choose to appear in both should keep all the advantages of a separate PvE group while also bringing PvE players into the "full" game, if you like.
Immersion breaking, out of fiction, artificial restriction humbug.
Wanna ruin the game before ít´s out? Hopefully not!!
There is only one reasonable way:
NO groups
NO player base splitting
NO fading / in out players
100 billion star systems, safe territories, unsafe territories. Everything else is a contradiction to the "realistic" approach of the game.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Two of those things already exist, you'll just have to get over it.
Yes, yes they do!
And thank god.
What difference?
The thing is that only the PVPers are making such a fuss about it. The people here arguing are probably going to do the ganking.
If there is a different universe and the PVPers and PVEers don't see each other the emersion isn't broken.
You can't complain about broken immersion if you are with people who think the same. If some space is low sec like eve you are for all intent restricting peoples ability to move through the galaxy.
that ruins the immersion because if you are a PVE only player you can stay in certain areas to enjoy.
My friend wants to be a explorer and got the founders set for that specific character. He cant do what he wants if gankers stick in "low sec" or dangerous areas.
If you get a choice the immersion is not broken, as a matter of fact it is protect on both sides. PvPers will only get to kill other PVPers and not kill that innocent small vessel who is with that guy who doesn't like fighting.
The Devs state within 60 seconds in a highly protected area police forces will appear. In that case you will have 4-5 people killing someone in 13. I quit eve after years of playing because I was ganked in a 7 sec area.
(Sorry if my post is scattered this is my first post I have made)
The thing is that only the PVPers are making such a fuss about it. The people here arguing are probably going to do the ganking.
If there is a different universe and the PVPers and PVEers don't see each other the emersion isn't broken.
You can't complain about broken immersion if you are with people who think the same. If some space is low sec like eve you are for all intent restricting peoples ability to move through the galaxy.
that ruins the immersion because if you are a PVE only player you can stay in certain areas to enjoy.
My friend wants to be a explorer and got the founders set for that specific character. He cant do what he wants if gankers stick in "low sec" or dangerous areas.
If you get a choice the immersion is not broken, as a matter of fact it is protect on both sides. PvPers will only get to kill other PVPers and not kill that innocent small vessel who is with that guy who doesn't like fighting.
The Devs state within 60 seconds in a highly protected area police forces will appear. In that case you will have 4-5 people killing someone in 13. I quit eve after years of playing because I was ganked in a 7 sec area.
(Sorry if my post is scattered this is my first post I have made)
I will PvP and will never 'gank'... if anything I will be an escort that will defend players from NPC and PCs.
I voted for option 1 for me personally, as I see that option 2 is implicit in some core areas. But I appreciate that others may want a pure PvE game. Therefore I wouldn't have a problem with a totally split PvE / PvP groups. But I think if you had a PvAll commander you could drop into the PvE group on login. But once you are in the PvE group you cannot return to the PvAll group.
Only because I see lots of exploits that could be done by players gaining resources/money in the easier (potentially) PvE environment and then returning to the PvAll universe.
The ability to drop from PvAll to PvE also allows people to give the PvAll universe a try and if they don't like it then they can drop into PvE without having to start from scratch.
Only because I see lots of exploits that could be done by players gaining resources/money in the easier (potentially) PvE environment and then returning to the PvAll universe.
The ability to drop from PvAll to PvE also allows people to give the PvAll universe a try and if they don't like it then they can drop into PvE without having to start from scratch.
So what the PvE-extremists are saying is:
Despite the fact that only 1/3 of the playerbase want my PvE-exclusive playstyle, which is already perfectly represented in single player offline mode (where I can go wherever I want), single player LAN co-op mode (where I can go wherever I want) PLUS login and play in the supersafe territories in the persistant ONLINE universe where police guards my butt anyway, and I have the choice NOT to go where PvP "might" happen --- all of this is SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH!
Because I don´t want to stay in safe areas to prevent PvP, I want to be EVERYWHERE, even in the UNSAFE areas (of course, not meaning "PvP unsafe" because I hate the chance of having a PvP encounter), but I want to have the CHOICE!
So, for my 1/3 of the playerbase, I demand immersion breaking filter options which apply to EVERYONE, so that I can filter out everyone else of the universe who is NOT a PvE-extremist to get to that golden asteroid mine and collect my riches without danger!
Exactly, balancing nightmare ahead. There will be riots with all these numerous backdoors for exploiting, getting credits faster in easymode, people switching back and forth between the modes, switching to PvE when running cargo, switching to PvE to get to ressouces if pirates show up, switching to PvE when there is a bounty on you, and so forth. I´ll do all of the above, but longterm it will kill all fun and realism.
No consistent rules in a sandbox universe = no sandbox.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That is all well and good - unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said for all potential PvP players.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Do you really think that there will be no NPC Bounty Hunters?
Each mode would have consistent rules: IronMan; PvP; PvE.
What a lot of people that aren't PvE-extremists are also saying.
It's not.
It's not.
Doesn't prevent PvP.
In a game where you're supposed to be able to go anywhere.
1. They already exist anyway.
2. They already exist anyway.
3. You won't see players outside of your group, so no immersion broken.
4. They already exist anyway.
Danger still exists in the form of NPCs.
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