The Vive discussion Thread

Having spent a bit of time now with the Vive Pre in Elite, I'm finding there are weird tracking issues when I'm seated at my desk (which, being a desk, is near the edge of the room). Tracking gets very jumpy every few seconds, and it regularly loses its lock and blanks out the screen while it reacquires its position. Turning my head can result in crazy wild view oscillations. I've played around a bit with lighthouse position, but haven't yet found a good spot where it doesn't happen.

If I move out into the center of the room—which means walking around the cockpit, very cool, though not REALLY walking since the avatar remains seated—tracking is rock solid. But when seated back at the desk it goes nuts again.

I'll continue to screw with lighthouse placement, but this is not a problem I had at all with the DK2.

Hi Lee!
Have you tried put the lighthouses to your left & right (perpendicular to your field of view) so you're in the middle of the tracked space when seated (with desk and HOTAS et. al.)...? (I understand that's not the setting suggested for a room and you're wasting tracked space, but maybe for a always-seated-game can work).
Can Vive controllers replace a good HOTAS? ... are they useful for ED?
Hopefully you'll find a good setting before the stuff arrives here, so I don't need to fill the (rented home) walls with holes. :)
Regards!

PD: I discovered ED when you reported about it back in Jun 2014. I've played Elite in 84'. It took me not much CPU time to decide to enter premium beta, one of the best investment I made.
 
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I'll keep experimenting with the lighthouse position. Currently I've got one immediately in front of me at a height of about 2.5m and angled down ~30 degrees and one close to directly behind me, same height and angle; I've previously had them on side walls and in a few other spots on tripods. Haven't found a good spot yet.

The Vive controllers don't appear to register in Elite. Wouldn't want to give up my Warthog anyway.
 
looks like I have to upgrade my graphics card for the vive. Its a shame pascal wont be out before the vive, so im thinking a GTX 970. what do you guys think? I don't want to spend more as I will buy the pascal when it comes out.
Will the nvidia gtx 970 be ok?
at the moment I have 2 gtx 480 cards, could I use one 480, and one 970?
 
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looks like I have to upgrade my graphics card for the vive. Its a shame pascal wont be out before the vive, so im thinking a GTX 970. what do you guys think? I don't want to spend more as I will buy the pascal when it comes out.
Will the nvidia gtx 970 be ok?
at the moment I have 2 gtx 480 cards, could I use one 480, and one 970?

The 970 is going to be the bare minimum if you don't want to wait for the first gen of Pascal cards, yes.

You cannot mix and match different video card families in SLI, so you can't use one of your 480s with a new 9xx card.
 
The 970 is going to be the bare minimum if you don't want to wait for the first gen of Pascal cards, yes.

You cannot mix and match different video card families in SLI, so you can't use one of your 480s with a new 9xx card.

Thanks for letting me know I can't mix the two cards together Lee_ars*
I want to wait for the pascal cards, but I should be receiving the vive early April, and don't want to be unable to use it until the pascal comes out. The thought of the vive just sitting there looking at me would be too much to bear!
Hence, the compromise of buying the gtx 970, as a stopgap measure is the only way to play ED using the vive as far as I see it.
Aghh, I know the smart thing is to wait, but......
 
Iv decided to buy a new rig for the Vive, there is a couple of rigs I am considering, one has 2 gtx 980 cards 4gb each, and the other has 1 gtx 980ti 6gb. The prices for both rigs are similar. Which is best for ED using the Vive?
Specs are

Intel core i5 6600k 3.9ghz overclocked at 4.4 ghz
memory 16gb ddr4 2133mhz
two gtx 980 4gb
hardrive 250gb / 2tb
windows 10

also I noticed some Intel cores are i5's and some are Intel i7's, and I have no idea what the differance is!

Thank you for any advice.
 
i7 has hyper threading. I don't think it's used by elite dangerous. EDIT: correction it does use it.

Sli is not yet implemented in steamVR so the 980ti is better for now. GameworksVR which includes VRsli will probably be integrated into steamVR at some point soon. Not sure if it will also require extra coding from FDEV as well though. That may result in good dual card performance.

Cheapest option will be to build your own PC. It's really not a difficult thing to do.
 
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I was expecting $1000 US+, so consider this something of a bargain. The $200 premium over the rift seems completely reasonable given you get a pair of wireless VR controllers and the greater playing space.
Neither of those features make much difference to ED that you play seated and with HOTAS, but then ED doesn't support the rift...yet.
I guess if you're planning to play other games and you have the space then the Vive is a no-brainer. Valve haven't announced a Portal title for the Vive yet, but surely that can only be a matter of time....

Strange, most people play ED with a rift already, in fact the inital vr was built with the rift DK's, a quick google search will show you the devs wearing them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isTzTsWVLXc

and steamvr allows you to incorporate the rift easily.

http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-steamvr-update-adds-support-latest-oculus-rift-sdk-runtime-0-8/

No idea where you got that idea from.
Also the controllers and play space for me just reek of the Wii fad. I'm a sit down gamer and I don't think I would use the extras, I like HTC for thinking down this line, it's good to diversify, but I don't think it's a good idea. Maybe have a package with and without for a gamer like me and Wii gamers. That way you don't have the divide of if you won't move get a rift if you want to move get a vive.
The price is also not that transparent, where I have just moved to the vive would cost me 9862krone and the rift would cost me 5111 with tax and shipping, so it is a region lottery as well.
 
looks like I have to upgrade my graphics card for the vive. Its a shame pascal wont be out before the vive, so im thinking a GTX 970. what do you guys think? I don't want to spend more as I will buy the pascal when it comes out.
Will the nvidia gtx 970 be ok?
at the moment I have 2 gtx 480 cards, could I use one 480, and one 970?
The GPU is not the end-all-and-be-all. You'll also need a decent performing CPU, Motherboard and RAM. If any of those things are sub-standard, performance will suffer. A GTX970 in my gaming rig was in the green for VR with the Steam VR Testing app. I do build my own machines and use name brand quality components. I bought the GTX980Ti to replace the 970 as I hate running my hardware flat out all the time.

The Pascal will probably be pricey on release so upgrade to a decent level now then wait for the new chips to come down in price. Not to mention, make sure the new chips work as advertised.

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Iv decided to buy a new rig for the Vive, there is a couple of rigs I am considering, one has 2 gtx 980 cards 4gb each, and the other has 1 gtx 980ti 6gb. The prices for both rigs are similar. Which is best for ED using the Vive?
I got a 980Ti and on the Steam VR Test it outperformed a Titan X. I custom build all of my gaming PC's.

A quick word about overclocking. Whether CPU or GPU overclocking, you are pushing that hardware to it's capacity. Somewhat like having your foot all the way down on an car's accelerator, all the time. You'll need to have decent heat blocks, if not water cooled, and be prepared for component burn-out.

My rule of thumb has always been, if I need to overclock to do what I need to do, it's time to upgrade.
 
Hello fellow vive users and people waiting.

I pre-ordered the vive last weekend and can't wait until it gets here! Although I made a shocking discovery last night... Vr sli needs to be supported by devs to make sli run properly on the hmds? I tried forcing alternate frame rendering 2 on the vive performance application but there was no improvement. I believe, as it says, it needs to be properly supported?

The newsletter this week had an interesting statement:
"Frontier and Elite Dangerous are at the forefront of VR".
So can anyone help with any official vr sli info please?

Fly safe
 
Hello fellow vive users and people waiting.

I pre-ordered the vive last weekend and can't wait until it gets here! Although I made a shocking discovery last night... Vr sli needs to be supported by devs to make sli run properly on the hmds? I tried forcing alternate frame rendering 2 on the vive performance application but there was no improvement. I believe, as it says, it needs to be properly supported?

The newsletter this week had an interesting statement:
"Frontier and Elite Dangerous are at the forefront of VR".
So can anyone help with any official vr sli info please?

Fly safe

The rest of us are waiting for answers too. Unfortunately FD rarely, if ever, stops in here to do so. We all just have to wait I guess.
 
The issues with SLI in VR have to do with keeping the single image produced by the two cards cohesive enough that it doesn't ever lag or fragment across the hmd's two displays. It's a difficult problem to completely solve.

Here's the wiki on SLI, which lays a good groundwork for the most common ways of splitting a rendering workload across two cards. None of those workloads scale well to VR, primarily because your visual and vestibular system is extremely sensitive to latency or out-of-sync-ness between what each of your eyes see. Even "card A does left eye, card B does right eye" doesn't really work because the output of the two isn't always latency-free enough to support a continuous 90hz image.

The workarounds for SLI in VR will almost certainly need to be done at the API and driver level, since for most developers the video subsystem is essentially a black box that they interact with via DirectX or OpenGL. Nvidia and AMD are working on it, but it's unclear at this point if the eventual fix to make multi-gpu rendering work well in VR will be a drop-in fix (like, install these new VR drivers and boom, SLI/crossfire now works in VR!) or will require developers to rewrite their applications to take advantage of new APIs.

Bottom line: we're in the early-adopter phase and some things just aren't going to work because problems are still being solved. If you're buying into VR right now, you are a guinea pig, just like any early adopter. If you want flawless SLI support, hop in your time machine and head to a year or so from now and see how things have turned out :)

edit - more thoughts -

It's also important to understand that when you add a second graphics card, it doesn't just magically weld to the first one and become a single more powerful video card (even though a LOT of brilliant coding has gone into video card driver design to make it look and act that way so you can game on and not have to care about what's happening under the hood). That second video card is just that—a second video card, and it has to work with the first video card and figure out a way of dividing the work of rendering frames between the two of them.

The methods the cards use are in that wiki article up there, but parallelization like this is difficult, and not every kind of computing problem is easily parallelized. It seems on the surface that just having one video card render even frames and the other render odd is the best way to do it, but often it just doesn't work that way because the frames might contain different levels of complexity and the cards might finish with their rendering at different times, for example.

Some rendering jobs really are easier to do with a single video card, just like how some kinds of work don't benefit from added hands. For an example, look at the task of, say, making hamburgers. You put one person on the hamburger line and say, "Make me 10 hamburgers," and that person first grabs the buns, grills the meat, puts on the lettuce and the onions and whatever, and eventually makes the first burger. Then he goes back and grabs the buns, grills the meat, and so on, and makes the second burger.

Add a second person, though, and the output can immediately be increased. The second person can do the condiments on a burger while the first guy grills, or he can watch the grill while the second guy cuts tomatoes, or whatever. Making hamburgers is a process that benefits from parallelization.

Compare that, though, to creating a painting. Sit an artist down with some oils and tell him to make a cool Bob Ross landscape or whatever, and that person will in some period of time draw a landscape out of his brush (we're going to assume our person can in fact paint). But adding a second artist doesn't immediately mean the painting will go twice as fast—how does the second person know what the first person is thinking? Does the second person take half the paint palette and use browns adn blues, while the first person uses reds and white, or whatever? How do they coordinate where they're painting? What if they both need to paint in the same area, or mix brown with red?

Painting a picture is a process that does not benefit from parallelization—at least, not without a LOT of thought and careful optimization and planning.

Dual-eye rendering in VR is also a process that's difficult to apply parallelization to—the splitting of the work has to be done very carefully or the whole thing just falls apart and you puke because your eyes are seeing different things. And that's why it's taking so long for the OEMs to get right.
 
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I though that there was a way to get one card to do the maths part and the second card just rendered the screen, or is this wrong ?

you may be thinking of hardware PhysX... games which support this , you can have a dedicated PhysX card and then a dedicated graphics card... however this is not relevant for ED.. not many games support it, its a shame as its fantastic. unless NV open it up to AMD it will never take off imo.
 
One thing for sure, whatever SLI VR they come up with it will only work on whatever latest GPU they happen to be working on at the time. Wouldn't want to miss additional sales opportunities now would they? LOL
 
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