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The Wings discussion thread
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I can agree with you that if they had nice big servers running large shards if the game then the multiplayer aspects may support the large groups you envisage. But on a gameplay front, what are you going to do with those enormous groups right now. To me it becomes a pvp enabler and not a lot else right now. That's a problem because it may result in OpenPlay being very unplayable unless you have a big group. If they add content for big groups to promote pve then that content becomes u reachable for the lone pilot.... This isnt the design vision on which the kickstarted was funded or the game built.
There is another problem more down to earth as well. Funding. If they have to support big server farms then they have to fund them. This means subscription fees which is an adamant "no" from the community from some of the threads I've read or some form if micro transaction based mechanic = pay to win = adamant no from FD and the community!!!
To me these are the reasons we are where we are. Flawed design, Im not sure. A design compromise.. Maybe, but that's the world we live in
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It wouldn't... that's the point, that's why they did it. FD have been saying since day one it's not a primarily PvP game, it's about one man and his ship. It's not about large groups of players taking over huge areas and dominating them, it must be playable by a single player on his own. Then every time they implement a mechanism to that end (or fail to implement a mechanism that changes it) the same people start making the same complaints that "FD are ruining a game with bad decisions that limit multiplay." No... they are staying true to what they said they'd do, and a certain group of people are constantly disappointed that they haven't managed to bully FD into changing their direction.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Personally, I'd imagine the 4 player wings would be most disappointing to explorers wanting to organise "large" expeditions more than PvP junkies, as the PvP thrill will eventually become boring and the kiddies will move on to the next game that catches their eye and leave those in for the long haul in relative peace.
I don't know how hard it would be to do or how much strain it would put on p2p but, if, somehow, wing "leaders" could better communicate and follow each other it would make 4 player restriction all but mute and a good thing.
I don't know how hard it would be to do or how much strain it would put on p2p but, if, somehow, wing "leaders" could better communicate and follow each other it would make 4 player restriction all but mute and a good thing.
Neither would 8 player wings or even 16. Neither would 32 for that matter as everything is instance based so your not likely to be in a wings instance to start with. Not to mention one can simply go to solo mode to avoid any type of multiplayer attempts to dominate or block anything, it simply doesn't work like that in ED.
Your argument would work if ED wasn't an instance based multiplayer game but, it is.
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InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
It's simple, just ditch a friend!
Or, more sensibly, he could form a wing with another 3 guys, then you'd have 2 wings, and could play against each other.
Could be a lot of fun
You could also coordinate your two wings to dominate an instance.
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I just don't see how a wing can keep its integrity if the members all have differing lives - will they only be able to play when they are all available? It's fine for school kids who all have much the same windows of availability to play but for grown-ups with other responsibilities to find four people who are going to be available at the same time will be almost impossible.
2 possible ways around this, 1) NPC wingmen. 2) Ad hoc groups formed to play together for a little while and then go their separate ways. Neither of which seem in the spirit of the game.
2 possible ways around this, 1) NPC wingmen. 2) Ad hoc groups formed to play together for a little while and then go their separate ways. Neither of which seem in the spirit of the game.
I think Robert probably has the truth of it. I'd guess, on average, there's rarely more than 8 people in an instance and FD simply split the potential power base 50-50. Otherwise, the cries of ganking and griefing would reach galactic proportions, even though, IMO, the gank/grief fear is greatly exaggerated.
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the instancing of wings and non wings has yet to be seen, how it is 'supposed' to work for different scenarios v's how it does work will be the subject of testing and eventually beta testing. Right now a wing can only have 4 players but there is nothing mentioned to prevent 8 wings all being in the same instance, nor is there anythign to say it can happen, but unless there is some new instancing matchmaking to allow/prevent it then its as likely as it is now for 32 friends to be in the same instance, right?
The current matchmaking sees to work very ureliably and often causes trouble for people to play together, if matchmaking is not solid for Wings, beyond the obvious my 3 guys in my wing all arrived here with me, then its not going to go very well. I will assume FD can see how obvious this is and be preparing a good deal of explanation and testing guidance for the beta players to be able to organise and feedback that all is good.
I dont know how many people were activley and copperatively testing 1.1 but FD may need to make sure they actually have the numbers required for 1.2
The current matchmaking sees to work very ureliably and often causes trouble for people to play together, if matchmaking is not solid for Wings, beyond the obvious my 3 guys in my wing all arrived here with me, then its not going to go very well. I will assume FD can see how obvious this is and be preparing a good deal of explanation and testing guidance for the beta players to be able to organise and feedback that all is good.
I dont know how many people were activley and copperatively testing 1.1 but FD may need to make sure they actually have the numbers required for 1.2
Uhh... what? You need to leave the onionhead alone for a bit. A 16 player wing would comprise 50% population of a single instance which would be automatic domination in anyone's language (considering not all the other 16 players would be interested in forming a wing to fight against you, some would be trading, mining, exploring, or whatever-ing), and a 32 player wing wouldn't allow any other players which would render the whole wing pointless.
Uhh yeah I think we're all over the whole passive-aggresive "if you don't like PvP you can go solo" remarks for now. They're not even relevant here, but they do shine an interesting light on what you want wings for and why you'd want larger than 4 members in a wing. I could be wrong, but I think that what you want wings for is what FD are specifically trying to avoid.
Uhhh, what? ED -is- instance based... max 32 players per instance.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The issue with design is that there will always be those who push the design envelope as far as possible - therefore emergent play-styles appear - if wings facilitate ganking then we can be sure that it will increase - some players are just like that.
Actually the opposite is true. Modern airforces have systems on fighters to exchange information between computers. For instance sharing targeting information, they also network up to other assets such as AWACS, ships etc.
There is also nothing stopping groups of wings forming on teamspeak and coordinating that way.
Lastly groups of four are easier to coordinate and defend, Luftwaffe fighter schwarmes were this size and highly successful.
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True and I agree but (now I'll disagree anyway
) Open play is NOT just about PvP groups, open is multiplayer PvE as well, in fact based on FD's own comments that is what it IS and it also allows for PvP as well. So in reality a 32 player wing, assuming (lmao) the tech would allow it, would be just fine as it would FORCE 32 players to play the environment ONLY.True and I agree but (now I'll disagree anyway
hehe Well yes... a 32 player wing would automatically be a PvE wing, I hadn't considered that. Can you imagine how loudly they'd wail and gnash their teeth in the forums at finding no-one in the entire universe to shoot other than themselves with their mega-wing?
No need to attack and insult me personally by implying I'm under the influence of illegal fictitious drugs, I'm pretty sure that's against forum rules.
However, 50% of an instance's potential powerbase does not mean "dominance" in any known universe. Even 8 players could get "dominated" by a single ship.
Also, you don't know what I want wings for or even if I do want wings so I don't think attacking me personally based on assumptions is helping your cause.
That last bit was obviously a typo because we all know, however unfortunate, that ED is p2p "instance" based. I'll go edit the post to alleviate your confusion. Thank you for bringing that mistake to my attention
Maybe but, on the other hand, people that like to gank/grief or whatever forming wings may actually decrease the problem as all 4 will be in the same instance as opposed to 4 separate one's thereby decreasing the odds of being in an instance with them. Who knows? Interesting though.
Bottom line IMO, FD has made their decision and I doubt they'll change it no matter how many people think it's a poor choice.
While the instance size (and 32 is ludicrously small, but that's the fault of the ludicrous decision to go p2p for player interaction, but that's another story) is probably the legitimate reason for the decision, the idea that anyone (up to a 1000 players) could dominate a system is bogus for reasons explained elsewhere.
This isn't a simulation. This is a simulation in a straightjacket.
This isn't a simulation. This is a simulation in a straightjacket.
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No more so than your thinly veiled insults at anyone who doesn't favour your choice of playstyle and demands that they "go play solo". They would be considered aggression and/or flaming, which as I'm sure you're aware is against the forums rules. However, to the matter at hand...
In any "generic" instance, assuming it has the maximum of 32 players (which you've already alluded in a previous message on this very thread your belief is that it's normally closer to half of that), there's going to be a great number of players not involved with "your" eight person wing, possibly up to half of them, which immediately rules out 16 players from our "generic" instance. There will also be some players who DO become involved with your wing but are either in smaller wings or are solo. There will also be players who encounter your wing in small cargo ships. So unless you're planning on forming a wing of unarmed haulers and confronting a single anaconda with it, it would be very difficult for a "generic" wing to be overcome by a single player. FD have said that that DON'T WANT WINGS TO DOMINATE, and a four player wing CAN'T DOMINATE, thereby fulfilling FDev's desires in this area. If your belief is correct that most instances only have approximatley 16 players in them then an 8 player wing would CERTAINLY be a dominant force in that instance.
Of course not, I can only assume by your heated disapproval and your comments.
That last bit was obviously a typo because we all know, however unfortunate, that ED is p2p "instance" based. I'll go edit the post to alleviate your confusion. Thank you for bringing that mistake to my attention
I was patently aware that it was a typo, but even trying to "read around" the typo it still didn't make a lot of sense to me.
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