This doesn't seem right. Reverse banking FTW

Otturo

O
So I've noticed that when I use reverse (outward) banking on turns, I get much higher excitement ratings. If I bank into turns, the way real coasters usually do, I get much lower ratings. This doesn't seem right.

It looks like this exploits the air time mechanic. With big curves like the examples bellow, the riders have their hands in the air for the entire helix. The excitement is through the roof. Fear and nausea levels are also green.
q7Kyxvh.jpg


3Hv1z5r.jpg


If I change the banking on this coaster, so that it is inward facing, all the stats lower significantly.
Maybe this is working as intended? I don't know that much about coaster physics, but I feel like the game is incentivizing bad design.
 
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Slipknottin

S
There are coasters that use outward banking. El Loco does for sure. But it's about 45 degrees outward and I think it's only moving like 20mph at that point.

I don't know the physics of it. But I imagine there's a good reason coasters don't use outside banking. It would create essentially "airtime" whenever it's done, but the negative G load has to be pretty huge

And I would imagine it's far more comfortable to be pushed into your seat than it is being pushed into your restraint. We have a lot more padding on our butts than our shoulders
 
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Coast1

C
This relates to the problem that PC coasters ignore gravity.

This turn shouldn't provide airtime but "eject force", at a weird angle too, which is pretty uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

Design decision made by a person that doesn't know physics or coasters.

Having said that, I enjoyed finding out what peeps enjoy in the world of PC physics. For a while. After having seen the 10 excitement coaster, that is just a joke. That is the grand design of coasters? Really?
 

Inge Jones

I
Sounds right to me - I'd be much more excited/scared if I felt I was being flung out of my seat than if I felt I was being pressed down into it.
 

Slipknottin

S
Coast said:
This relates to the problem that PC coasters ignore gravity.

This turn shouldn't provide airtime but "eject force", at a weird angle too, which is pretty uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

Design decision made by a person that doesn't know physics or coasters.

Having said that, I enjoyed finding out what peeps enjoy in the world of PC physics. For a while. After having seen the 10 excitement coaster, that is just a joke. That is the grand design of coasters? Really?
Click to expand...

I disagree. It absolutely provides airtime.
 

jip241

J
It looks like the algorithms for calculating 'fear' and 'nausea' are a little out of tune with reality. Specifically, lateral g-forces: IRL these are minimised on coasters wherever possible - it's much more comfortable to be pushed into your seat than sideways. In the images shown above, the summed forces from gravity and rotational motion are not far off being completely sideways - resulting in rather extensive shoulder and hip bruising! My guess is that the requirements on this have been softened on Planet Coaster, as having to get the banking *just right* everywhere would be a considerable challenge for anyone building a coaster. Ideally, of course, there should be an auto-banking option (c.f. NoLimits) to easily minimize lateral g-forces. One side-effect of these lax requirements on lateral g-forces, combined with how excitement is calculated, result in the oddities you've illustrated. I did something very similar on a mine train coaster when trying to complete the Monolith scenario back in the Beta
 

Stokies

S
It Depends on the G Forces generated.... realistically Coasters don't produce much over 6G and that is experienced for a fraction of a second (Tower of Terror)

The Centrifugal force is pushing your riders out of their seat - The Speed will Increase the G Force - Time spent on the Curve will lower the G Force you could use....

If your Coaster is going fast and spends less than a second on the curve than you could allow up to 6G which would cause high excitement
If your coaster is going fast but spends a lot of time on the curve ( because it's a long curve) then you should aim for 3 - 4 G

If your coaster is getting 10 excitement on the outward bank but is generating more than 6G for an extended amount of time then to be realistic you need to tweak things around.
 
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Slipknottin

S
You can also do reverse loops.
KmEqy1j.jpg


Perhaps the game does not take into account the guests own weight when calculating the forces upon them?

So we know there is no G force in this game on someone at rest. I checked and its the same thing when they are upside down.

So this coaster has 4g of downwards Gs (it should be 5, but whatever, we will go with 4)

If a rider is 150 pounds, that's a force of 600 pounds (750 if we go with 5g). 600 pounds going into their shoulders. At least when positioned right side up that force is distributed to your butt and to your feet. Much more area to spread the load.

I can't imagine any coaster ever giving negative sustained Gs. It doesn't take all that much force to break a clavicle. They need to redo the downwards G-forces. In either coaster example that load on the shoulders is just way way too severe.
 
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MrAdrianSW

M
Okay.
Had to check this out.
There is a Butter zone....
If the G-load gets too high (-1.90 it seems) then Fear kicks up quite rapidly. Once you hit -3, nausea also start to pick up quickly.
It seems that as long as you can keep the Outward banked track properly balanced with the right speed, and banking, you can farm that Airtime and gain the Excitement. But if you get too far outside that Butter zone, you start paying for it with Fear and Nausea. Which all seems pretty plausible to me.
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One thing I would like to see is "Extremes" being part of the ride statistics. It seems that right now you can get away with horrific amounts of G-Load, as long as they are for short periods of time (a % of the overall track length). Personally, I think any coaster that tops +7 G or -2G at all should start experiencing a penalty.. Either in rider discomfort (IE: hospitalization) Or ride stats (Having a high% added to the Fear grade).
 
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Otturo

O
Good info Fraggle.

I think it's far too lenient as is. If the turn works (low fear and nausea) with a traditional inward bank, it almost always scores higher excitment when converted to an outward bank. And with little to no penalty. At least in my limited experience.

It's gotten to the point where if at the end of a build the excitement rating is low, and fear and nausea are green, I just go back and reverse all the banking. Suddenly a medicore coaster becomes highly rated.

This goes for all coaster types that I have tried so far.
 

Replica

Replica
I tested this multiple times since I saw this thread yesterday, and it's coming off as kind of an exploit honestly.

There doesn't seem to be any reason not to do outward banking over normal banking, let alone using inversions and such.
You can very easily get coasters with excitement levels up towards 8+ if all you do is build a bunch of smooth outward banking curves for the entire duration, and it works with every coaster type.
 

Otturo

O
I hope the Devs see this, and maybe confirm whether or not it is working as intended.
This appears like a significant exploit/flaw in the coaster rating system.

The outward banking scores better in nearly every circumstance and makes the coaster look ridiculous.
 

mr.sugar

M
I think this should be the moment when coaster should just crash. I don´t think it could run without crashing in real-life... That would at least make crashes useful. I´m still wondering why they bothered to implement them as they have no real impact :/
 

Otturo

O
MR.sugar said:
I think this should be the moment when coaster should just crash.
Click to expand...

Or, this should be when the restraints break and the riders go flying out of the coaster car! :D

But seriously, it would be cool to have a statistic for the riders' comfort level. This reverse banking would be seriously uncomfortable (if not lethal) in many situations, as comments above have explained. Having that reflected in the stats would likely solve the issue.
 
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TylerE

T
MR.sugar said:
I think this should be the moment when coaster should just crash. I don´t think it could run without crashing in real-life... That would at least make crashes useful. I´m still wondering why they bothered to implement them as they have no real impact :/
Click to expand...

459626-227746.jpg
 

Jdub97

J
If someone wanted to develop a coaster that did outward banking faster than El Loco, couldn't they just develop safer restraints for that part of the ride? Same for the wheels and whatever else would need adjusting too? Just saying.
 
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