Tips for Combat
- Thread starter MadDogMurdock
- Start date
Whatever ship you use, try different weapon combinations. See what works for you and what doesn't.
Fixed weapons are more difficult to aim but are not affected by chaff, and deal more damage when they hit. Hitscan fixed weapons are actually easy to aim at long range.
Depending on hardpoint placement and firing arcs some weapon combinations simply don't work.
Definitely bind some controls (ideally analog axis) for vertical thrust, and other thrusters as well if you can. Using directional thrust to move sideways or fly in spirals while aiming at your target helps a lot. I found vertical thrust to be most useful (in combination with forward). FA off is not necessary, you can pull some pretty interesting moves in FA on if you use more than just forward thrust.
Edit: Learn to put 4 pips in SYS when under fire, or when you expect to be. (assuming you use a ship with shield). This makes a huge difference.
Fixed weapons are more difficult to aim but are not affected by chaff, and deal more damage when they hit. Hitscan fixed weapons are actually easy to aim at long range.
Depending on hardpoint placement and firing arcs some weapon combinations simply don't work.
Definitely bind some controls (ideally analog axis) for vertical thrust, and other thrusters as well if you can. Using directional thrust to move sideways or fly in spirals while aiming at your target helps a lot. I found vertical thrust to be most useful (in combination with forward). FA off is not necessary, you can pull some pretty interesting moves in FA on if you use more than just forward thrust.
Edit: Learn to put 4 pips in SYS when under fire, or when you expect to be. (assuming you use a ship with shield). This makes a huge difference.
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Go join the Galactic Combat Initiative discord channel. They'll give you all the help you ask for and more...
A few suggestions that helped me...
Basics:
- Practice using all the weapon types and styles
- Fixed & dumber fire, I consider - a must! Moar DMG! Each weapon has it's own "personality", so-to-say. - Practice maneuvering with thrusters and FA OFF.
- I know you said "limited" but this will help quite a bit! - Practice using your defense modules.
- Chaff, point defense, shield booster cells, heat sink, AMFU.
Advanced:
- Practice using frameshift interdictor.
- Practice using hatchbreaker limpets (hint: liberation missions - piracy).
- Optional and difficult but fun. Try to steal all the cargo without destroying your target. - Practice selecting target's subsystems (hint: liberation missions, RES & CZ).
I really don't have any fits to suggest since I'm suggesting you use as many modules as you care to learn or test. This gives you some freedom to experiment to find a setup you like. Try an affordable and disposable ship until you get comfortable to risk using more expensive ships. Also, there are plenty of youtube tutorial videos you can reference for better clarity.
Good luck with your Combat Training, CMDR!
O7
Wow, thought you would be elite combat, by your previous posts. I am in the same boat, I want to get combat ready for open, so am open to suggestions
Combat ready for PvE is a far cry from being 'Combat Ready' for open. There are a great many details of load out and approach that make the two facets exclusive. Certainly a PvE player would benefit from the PvP examples that apply. But, what passes as viable tactics and weapons ( by weapons I mean the ship as an entire package) for a PvE player, won't translate well for personal defense against a determined Commander.
To start, go with gimballed efficient beams and add thermal vent to at least a couple of them. You'll want some long range special effects to, at least have that in storage. You can switch to multicannons later but you'll find you need to keep synthesizing ammo if you want staying power.
Focus on armor, hull, module strength and of course bi-weave shields (big as your ship can carry) for regen rate and don't skimp on the shield boosters. I don't carry cell banks because my fights don't last that long, and the ones that I might lose shield on my engines will get me away from the action long enough to reboot/repair or rebuild shields, or bug out. With NPCs I don't mind bugging out as long as it's not a mission. The payout isn't good enough to stand there and get knocked around by 4 Vultures while I am trying to take out a Corvette. If I can get the vette away from the fray or drop the shields fast by ramming, I will stick around to finish it and limp away to lick my wounds at a local station.
I use HOTAS as well. You'll want FA Off most of the time, but as you said fixed weapons have limited use for me. I can deselect my target and have a similar effect but with less dps. The spring effect of using the HOTAS makes fixed weapons almost useless (still haven't experimented with the joystick curves). You still want FA Off. You'll learn that drifting to strafe beats jousting especially if your opponent is a big ship with special weapons. Boost and turn just puts you face to face. Drifting in an elliptical pattern at half throttle gives you maximum turn speed and a boost now and then keeps your opponent off your tail and keeps him in range of your weapons. Jousting has him going outside your range, then a very limited time where he's in range but likely spamming chaffs as he zooms by you and hits your with PAs or rails or, lately, phasing it seems.
Focus on armor, hull, module strength and of course bi-weave shields (big as your ship can carry) for regen rate and don't skimp on the shield boosters. I don't carry cell banks because my fights don't last that long, and the ones that I might lose shield on my engines will get me away from the action long enough to reboot/repair or rebuild shields, or bug out. With NPCs I don't mind bugging out as long as it's not a mission. The payout isn't good enough to stand there and get knocked around by 4 Vultures while I am trying to take out a Corvette. If I can get the vette away from the fray or drop the shields fast by ramming, I will stick around to finish it and limp away to lick my wounds at a local station.
I use HOTAS as well. You'll want FA Off most of the time, but as you said fixed weapons have limited use for me. I can deselect my target and have a similar effect but with less dps. The spring effect of using the HOTAS makes fixed weapons almost useless (still haven't experimented with the joystick curves). You still want FA Off. You'll learn that drifting to strafe beats jousting especially if your opponent is a big ship with special weapons. Boost and turn just puts you face to face. Drifting in an elliptical pattern at half throttle gives you maximum turn speed and a boost now and then keeps your opponent off your tail and keeps him in range of your weapons. Jousting has him going outside your range, then a very limited time where he's in range but likely spamming chaffs as he zooms by you and hits your with PAs or rails or, lately, phasing it seems.
1. “The best offense is a strong defense”
....and the best defense against an enemy npc is speed. The damage falloff from energy weapons means that if you can quickly put a few clicks away from an aggressor your survival is almost guaranteed. Any ship that can break 400m/s is extremely valuable in a combat role, when you bite off more than you can chew (and you will occasionally) a fast ship is your best friend and saves you from the rebuy screen. An engineered ship that can break 500m/s can outrun missiles...
2. Know your role/place
There’s CMDRs out there who can demolish Anaconda with a Sidewinder. But if you’re a scrub like myself you’ll need at least a Vulture to do the same. And that’s ok.
If you’re flying in a high res you can instigate combat in a Viper3 because you know that the cops will back you up, you’re basically starting a fight you can’t finish....you’re just a scout ship but it’s still a powerful and very profitable role because your scouting/instigating speeds up the RES and leads to higher profits. Because of point 1 (speed) you’re never in any real danger.
3. Know your enemy/mass lock
When faced with overwhelming odds, which ship survives? A slow, heavily armoured Dropship or a light but fast Viper3?
It doesn’t matter how many hull points you have, if you get overpowered and mass locked by a bigger ship in combat you’re in a very bad place, only speed or a high wake will get you out.
Knowing the combat potential of all the games ships and their average speed is important knowledge for survival. Mass lock is a brutal tool that can catch unwary CMDRs out if they aren’t prepared for it.
I’m a survivalist. I play Ironman/Dead is Dead with all my CMDRs so a rebuy screen is not an option. But I do love combat so my requirements are very strict when building a combat vessel...
1. Speed
2. Defense
3. Offense
....always in that order. Doesn’t leave me with much variety, but I never die...
....and the best defense against an enemy npc is speed. The damage falloff from energy weapons means that if you can quickly put a few clicks away from an aggressor your survival is almost guaranteed. Any ship that can break 400m/s is extremely valuable in a combat role, when you bite off more than you can chew (and you will occasionally) a fast ship is your best friend and saves you from the rebuy screen. An engineered ship that can break 500m/s can outrun missiles...
2. Know your role/place
There’s CMDRs out there who can demolish Anaconda with a Sidewinder. But if you’re a scrub like myself you’ll need at least a Vulture to do the same. And that’s ok.
If you’re flying in a high res you can instigate combat in a Viper3 because you know that the cops will back you up, you’re basically starting a fight you can’t finish....you’re just a scout ship but it’s still a powerful and very profitable role because your scouting/instigating speeds up the RES and leads to higher profits. Because of point 1 (speed) you’re never in any real danger.
3. Know your enemy/mass lock
When faced with overwhelming odds, which ship survives? A slow, heavily armoured Dropship or a light but fast Viper3?
It doesn’t matter how many hull points you have, if you get overpowered and mass locked by a bigger ship in combat you’re in a very bad place, only speed or a high wake will get you out.
Knowing the combat potential of all the games ships and their average speed is important knowledge for survival. Mass lock is a brutal tool that can catch unwary CMDRs out if they aren’t prepared for it.
I’m a survivalist. I play Ironman/Dead is Dead with all my CMDRs so a rebuy screen is not an option. But I do love combat so my requirements are very strict when building a combat vessel...
1. Speed
2. Defense
3. Offense
....always in that order. Doesn’t leave me with much variety, but I never die...
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I think this is good advice.
Just my experience to date.
I find FA Off uncontrollable and I miss 90% of the time with fixed kinetics.
I'm well aware that both are easier with KBM but I'm not prepared to change controller.
Ok, I'm going to go with this to start with - no fire groups to worry about, so I can focus on positioning and pip management.
I didn't get on well with the Vulture before, but that was way back before engineering - time to try again.
A couple of fun ships/builds you have to try:
Vulture with two efficient PAs
Challenger with all double-shot frag cannons.
Vulture with two efficient PAs
Challenger with all double-shot frag cannons.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
No matter what ship you choose, I'd suggest G5 dirty/drag drives + G5 charge enhanced PD, and the G5 shield of your choosing.
What do you fly now?
This advice is gold. I learned this in an un-engineered Eagle. I could pick fights in high res and have the cops help me finish it. It wasn’t fast enough to outrun, but it had the agility to get out of the line of fire or loop behind a rock for some hard cover. Now I fly a python with dirty drives. It lacks the agility of the eagle, but with a top speed higher than most ships boost speed I can get out of any fight, even when my hulls are thrashed. When I hit the boost button, I see the incoming damage falloff immediately.
The best place to start is your choice of ship and loadout as that has the single largest impact on your success in combat. It's also worth mentioning that PVE combat is a marathon, not a sprint, and the goal is sustained dps and sustained ability to avoid or withstand cumulative damage over time.
Let's start with choice of ship. The best value for your money here would be the Vulture. A full A-rated loadout would be around 20-25 million, with a rebuy of around 1-1.2 million credits. Quite reasonable for bounty hunting or CZ combat as you can make up a loss quickly if you lose it.
Then let's go with weapons. For the Vulture I would recommend overcharged incendiary multicannons as it gives you a multipurpose, symmetrical loadout that is great against shields and decent against hulls. For most ships I would recommend a combination of incendiary and corrosive multicannons, ideally in a 2/1 ratio, i.e., if you have 3 hardpoints I would have 2 armed with incendiary multicannons and 1 with a corrosive multilcannon. The reason I recommend these weapons is that they limit capacitor draw and can be fired with only 1 or 2 pips to weapons. They also have an excellent range of 4 km with damage dropoff starting at 2 km which gives them much better long-range damage than lasers. I would also recommend gimbals because you can maintain fire from a wide range of approach angles and at much longer ranges than if you were using fixed weapons. You should still learn how to use fixed weapons properly for when an NPC spams chaff, but most of the time gimbals will work very well against NPCs who more often than not don't carry chaff with them.
Now let's go with shields, for PVE I always recommend thermal resistant shields mods and thermal resistant boosters. The vast majority of NPCs will try to use lasers against your shields and only use kinetics or explosives once your shields are down. By increasing your thermal resistance to around 50% if possible you dramatically increase the time you can withstand damage from NPCs. This doesn't add any weight or power draw to the loadout, it does reduce your kinetic resistance but for most NPCs they won't be trying to use kinetic weapons against your shields anyways. You can also mix in a few heavy duty boosters to get total shield strength up but that means you're increasing weight and power draw. For the same reason, I would always go with adding an SCB rather than just trying to maximize total shield MJ strength because the total MJ reserve contained in the SCBs is generally far higher than what you could achieve just by stacking more shield boosters. I always try to keep 4 pips to shields as it dramatically increases your shield strength.
For armor, almost all my ships use military grade alloys as a reasonable compromise between cost and overall effectiveness. My stealth ships use reactive composite with a thermal resistance mod, but that is only because I need those ships to occasionally hull tank for brief periods of time while in stealth mode and using specialized armor does increase the rebuy costs dramatically. Generally speaking you are probably better off with most ships to stick with military alloys and save a substantial amount of credits on the rebuys.
For thrusters, I would always go with dirty drives. The improvement in performance is almost always going to be optimal for most PVE combat, ideally I would go with a grade 5 mod here to maximize your speed and maneuverability. I usually keep between 0-1 pips to engines to slowly recharge boost over time, but in some ships like the Krait I keep 2 pips to engines and can boost continuously with that setup.
For power plant and PD, this depends on what you're trying to do with your loadout, but usually charge enhanced PD is the best for total capacitor charge rates. You could possibly make an argument for a weapon-focused PD but usually the charge enhanced is better overall. Similarly the choice of power power plant mod is up to you but I always try to keep my thermal efficiency factor as low as possible and I never run a PP with a thermal efficiency above 0.4. In part this is because I don't use power-hungry builds but also because I want my ships to run as cool as possible given that self-inflicted heat damage can be quite substantial.
For tactics, keep in mind here that you're fighting against a baked potato since most NPCs have extremely limited and predictable patterns of behavior. You should try to use this to your advantage. They almost never care about self-perseveration and will usually fight to the death. This means that if you can get their shields down it's just an issue of gradually wearing down their hull as they won't try to escape and restore their shields. Similarly they won't try to aggressively maneuver to protect themselves. If you're taking heavy damage, you just need to boost several times to get out of range. They won't do that to protect themselves and will keep trying to fight you using the same tactics. It's also worth noting here that the least efficient method for fighting NPCs is to face tank in the sense that you are taking away your biggest advantage, i.e., self-preservation and using the boost button as often as possible. Face-tanking means that they are going to hit you about as often as you hit them and in most cases that is not a good exchange even if you win the fight.
If you wanted to mention your preferred ship or weapons loadout I could go into more detail about specific tactics that might be more relevant to your situation.
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Practicing fao with fixed weapons is good and worthwhile. Just toggle it off here and there until you’re used to it. I know it’s hard. I’m only just getting back to using it now but it gives you a lot more tools in your arsenal: [video=youtube_share;47Fb_GY61V8]https://youtu.be/47Fb_GY61V8[/video]
I use T16000m fcs withpedals.
I use T16000m fcs withpedals.
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I play Hotas and have since I started playing Elite Dangerous I have played ~4800hrs in Elite yet I consider myself well below average in combat.
Even so I will pass on what small things I have learnt.
FAOFF.
For combat learning some FAOFF will help and will increase your enjoyment of flying quite a bit. Once it clicks that is
I have watched many videos in my time in the game. The one I will link shows by far the best way to learn FAOFF.
This isnt to say Fly everywhere in FAOFF and do all Combat in FAOFF just learn its basics and use to your advantage when it feels right.
Pip Management.
Having 4 pips in shields makes the shields ~2.3x stronger . So if your being shot a lot... all power to shields Mr Spock. same applies if your about to ram or get rammed.
Apart from the 4 in sys when in danger, its about being able to boost and being able to shoot and not overheat.
Getting used to Swapping around the pips rather than leaving them at your preferred setting is good.
SubSystem Targeting.
Target them subsystems.
There is quite a bit of fun to be had taking out an enemy's weapons, drives, FSD, Power plant, etc etc.
Have a button or two that is easy to use, to be able to go forward and backwards through the systems.
Missiles on weapons and utilitys are very good fun.
Speed Management.
Practice slowing down after boosting to do the fast FAOFF flip-turn-follow-shoot
I am not good at explaining this but its about removing speed to be in the optimal speed area as soon as possible after a boost to get the best FAOFF turn onto target move as possible.
Like i say im not good at combat but practice with speed management has helped me get almost to a not incompetent level.
Never be afraid to run from a fight.
When you feel that you are out matched or are in extreme danger HIGH WAKE OUT.
Before every fight I try to remember to have my escape plan ready.
So check the systems around you that you can jump to and find one with a nice close dock, that offer repairs,rearm,refuel.
Before you enter a res site or if you are travelling through a dangerous section of supper-cruise. Basically have it always ready
Go to the Nav panel and highlight the escape plan system.
Then just move tabs over to contacts.
When danger happens go back to nav panel and you will see it is still highlighted over your system so just select and engage Hyper-jump or what ever its called.
High Wake (jumping to another system) cannot be mass locked. Low wake (jumping into super-cruise ) can be mass locked.
This will save your life many times and is good practice for open play survival.
Target Wingmans Target.
If you play in a wing ever, learn which buttons these are.
They are very helpful.
Prioritise Targets.
This is easy when alone and is frustrating as hell when your in a wing who are killing fast for the Credits.
If you can Take the time to scan each target in a wing and check out each loadout.
Then decide what order you will prioritise them.
Sometimes its worth taking out the two vipers with Beams first, rather than the Conda with Turret Multis.
Anyway take your time and Have fun
Hope at lest one thing helps.
BL1P.
Even so I will pass on what small things I have learnt.
FAOFF.
For combat learning some FAOFF will help and will increase your enjoyment of flying quite a bit. Once it clicks that is
I have watched many videos in my time in the game. The one I will link shows by far the best way to learn FAOFF.
[video=youtube;U6zIXu52RnA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA[/video]
Pip Management.
Having 4 pips in shields makes the shields ~2.3x stronger . So if your being shot a lot... all power to shields Mr Spock. same applies if your about to ram or get rammed.
Apart from the 4 in sys when in danger, its about being able to boost and being able to shoot and not overheat.
Getting used to Swapping around the pips rather than leaving them at your preferred setting is good.
SubSystem Targeting.
Target them subsystems.
There is quite a bit of fun to be had taking out an enemy's weapons, drives, FSD, Power plant, etc etc.
Have a button or two that is easy to use, to be able to go forward and backwards through the systems.
Missiles on weapons and utilitys are very good fun.
Speed Management.
Practice slowing down after boosting to do the fast FAOFF flip-turn-follow-shoot
I am not good at explaining this but its about removing speed to be in the optimal speed area as soon as possible after a boost to get the best FAOFF turn onto target move as possible.
Like i say im not good at combat but practice with speed management has helped me get almost to a not incompetent level.
Never be afraid to run from a fight.
When you feel that you are out matched or are in extreme danger HIGH WAKE OUT.
Before every fight I try to remember to have my escape plan ready.
So check the systems around you that you can jump to and find one with a nice close dock, that offer repairs,rearm,refuel.
Before you enter a res site or if you are travelling through a dangerous section of supper-cruise. Basically have it always ready
Go to the Nav panel and highlight the escape plan system.
Then just move tabs over to contacts.
When danger happens go back to nav panel and you will see it is still highlighted over your system so just select and engage Hyper-jump or what ever its called.
High Wake (jumping to another system) cannot be mass locked. Low wake (jumping into super-cruise ) can be mass locked.
This will save your life many times and is good practice for open play survival.
Target Wingmans Target.
If you play in a wing ever, learn which buttons these are.
They are very helpful.
Prioritise Targets.
This is easy when alone and is frustrating as hell when your in a wing who are killing fast for the Credits.
If you can
Take the time to scan each target in a wing and check out each loadout.Then decide what order you will prioritise them.
Sometimes its worth taking out the two vipers with Beams first, rather than the Conda with Turret Multis.
Anyway take your time and Have fun
Hope at lest one thing helps.
BL1P.
I guess I need to go all in to git gud with Fixed so I'm going with your Vulture loadout.
Efficient seems like a good plan because of heat issues.
For that reason I'm not using an SCB either. Biweaves and lots of HRPs.