Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle

[Robert Maynard]

Hasn't changed their stance yet*

Of course - just like we don't have an Open-PvE mode, yet.

Absence of proof is indeed not proof of absence (of intent, in this case) - however continued absence of proof may be indicative of absence.

Some participants in these threads have seemed to be completely convinced that "the next patch, you'll see - it's happening!" - it still hasn't happened, over five years since release.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

If the game was an Open Only game, I would not have bought it. I did buy it because I could decide when I wanted to interact with players and when I did not. Restricting me to areas in the Bubble if I chose not to interact is not acceptable to me.

I decide where I want to go, and I am subjected to Frontier's rules when doing so. No player in the world is going to tell me: if you go to system X you have to go through me. No Sir, I will go through you when I decide I want that confrontation.

You shouldn't have to go through anybody, and you wouldn't have to. Speed kills, and the fsd is a button push away.

But if open only provided means for you to avoid PvP through game design, and that's still a deal breaker, that sounds rather tantrumish.

The only difference between that hollow square going pew pew and the solid one going pew pew is your own confidence in your ability to escape.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The only difference between that hollow square going pew pew and the solid one going pew pew is your own confidence in your ability to escape.

.... and a preference, or lack thereof, for engaging in combat with humans.

Sandro put it well:

Hello Commander Ozram!

I think you are perhaps conflating two separate issues: the amount of challenge present in each game mode, and player versus player interactions. I think these are so fundamentally different that comparisons might not be particularly useful.

The challenge of playing in solo being too low (without taking sides) is a valid argument to make, although it might better be phrased as "the opportunities for challenge are too low in Elite Dangerous". It's actually something we are interested in looking at.

However, cranking up difficulty will not make Open more enticing. Conflict between actual people, even within a game, is a very different matter to taking on NPC ships. It has many psychological and social elements that would otherwise not be present. Incidentally, increasing the difficulty of NPC engagements would also make Open harder rather than fairer, so there's also that.

Perhaps the bottom line is the different modes are there to enable Commanders to play how they want to. We don't want everyone to play in Open because we want some sort of Armageddon PvP scenario. We just think that playing with other people, both cooperatively and adversarial, can be more fun, which is why we advocate Open play.

So in the context of a karma system, people playing in Private Group or Solo mode are not relevant. Why should folk in Open be interested in what goes on there? This is about making player versus player interactions more equitable in Open, getting more folk in there, surely?

 

[Cheese Helmet]

And I'd say you'd lose players in droves, as some of them wanted/expected a single-player game, or, as my starry-eyed explorer girlfriend and some other players I know, would probably stop playing completely, because they don't want ANY human interaction within the game, not to mention the kind that shoots at them "for lulz".

If people who wanted a single player game were going to leave they already would have. It's not single player ever. You're never fully free from other player influence.

If you don't want any human interaction then don't have any. Nothing would stop you from fulfilling that on your own.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You should have to go through anybody

You are not the decider what I should and should not do. That's first my and then by contract Frontier's job.

I should decide when and where I interact with other players, and not have myself restricted to an area after I made that decision.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

.... and a preference, or lack thereof, for engaging in combat with humans.

Sandro put it well:

Yeah I don't buy "players hurt my psyche' schtick

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Oh sure. Which is why I always fight the interdiction, and stay active on comms. I'm not high waking anywhere in a hurry, and me talking shows I'm not on the 15 second timer.

Since I'm usually on the receiving end of an interdiction (piracy is something I do very rarely, and only since very recently) I still enjoy them to some extent (chain interdictions are annoying though) and see them as a challenge to escape, and to test my ship builds for Open viability. I may jest a little with my attackers (a good natured, gentle ribbing if anything, in case I can escape a wing with a small ship, stuff like that) but often no response, which is a bit sad given they're the ones who want to 'play' with me obviously... maybe it's VR etc. who knows.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah I don't buy "players hurt my psyche' schtick

That's neither here nor there - suffice to say others do (including Frontier).

 

[Cheese Helmet]

You are not the decider what I should and should not do. That's first my and then by contract Frontier's job.

I should decide when and where I interact with other players, and not have myself restricted to an area after I made that decision.

You shouldn't get to have your cake " I want to be in a system with billions of people and a booking economy!" And eat it too "oh no another person!"

 

[Cosmik_Debris]

When we're exchanging ideas, discussions are never pointless.

I would not be a natural choice for solo. I do play in open when I am in the Bubble. And I got interdicted many a time. I just don't fight back or try to escape. I have a low rebuy, don't fly around with exploration data, so not too bothered about being blown up. Mostly when I'm exploring I'm in a private group.

Although I must say, it strikes me as rather odd to only have combat in mind when talking about player interaction. There's a lot of non-combat player interaction going on, I got random encounters, went looking for the Code back in their day, clowned around during CGs. Just having fun.

Well, you sound like you don't use solo mode, so being able to switch mid game isnt needed for you either? (people have said something about hi res screenshots, but i have no idea what they mean, since the game looks identical to me in both modes. I could be missing something, though).

But yeah, i do think combat in its various forms is the only form of player interaction (plus canyon racing i guess) supported by any form of game mechanics.. everything else is just chatting while doing things by yourself (which im not denigrating doing at all, but can be and is done cross modes). I mean i guess exploring with someone else means you can share the sights?

 

[Cheese Helmet]

That's neither here nor there - suffice to say others do (including Frontier).

Your appeal to authority doesn't change or strengthen your position, since the entire topic is based on criticism of that authority's decisons as being less than ideal.

Do you have an actual counter argument to my point that the game should provide what it wants to via the actual game other than restating the obvious decisons it's made this far?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well, you sound like you don't use solo mode, so being able to switch mid game isnt needed for you either? (people have said something about hi res screenshots, but i have no idea what they mean, since the game looks identical to me in both modes. I could be missing something, though).

Hi-res screenshots were "weaponised" early on - so the ability to take them in Open was removed.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle

Creates a 17 page debacle

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You shouldn't get to have your cake " I want to be in a system with billions of people and a booking economy!" And eat it too "oh no another person!"

You are not the decider what I should and should not do. That's first my and then by contract Frontier's job.

I should decide when and where I interact with other players, and not have myself restricted to an area after I made that decision.

 

[Old Duck]

I do play in open when I am in the Bubble.

Wait, you do? Well then, where have you been all my life?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Your appeal to authority doesn't change or strengthen your position, since the entire topic is based on criticism of that authority's decisons as being less than ideal.

Do you have an actual counter argument to my point that the game should provide what it wants to via the actual game other than restating the obvious decisons it's made this far?

It's not an appeal to authority as evidence from the authority in question has been posted.

Yes - this is not a game where players need to tolerate PvP at all - by design - and every player bought it on that basis.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Given your comments, it feels to me like you would just be a natural choice for choosing solo ...

what else is there? You cant trade. Chat? You can even still do that from solo anyway.

I guess you haven't played much apart from looking at your target reticule when it comes to interaction with other players...

Your choice I suppose

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait, you do? Well then, where have you been all my life?

Not in the Bubble

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Nope. One of it is much quicker as you can easily win the interdiction - if you want. And after that there's usually not even a reason to leave the system - if you don't want. That's some big differences in my book.

Galaxy is a big place. But if faced with adversity you can't immediately overcome there's nothing wrong with regrouping and trying something else. You shouldn't be able to overcome any and every single situation to the point it can be ignored

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You are not the decider what I should and should not do. That's first my and then by contract Frontier's job.

I should decide when and where I interact with other players, and not have myself restricted to an area after I made that decision.

Imagine if FD had initially made the game have only one mode, and then people came to the forums for years demanding that FD create separate modes....

I think the shoe would be on the other foot

Imagine all the shared mode defenders saying "FD created the game with a shared mode" - like some sort of inverse Robert Maynard.