To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[TobiasFuzz]

FYI, my hair is not red, I'm not a girl and I'm definitely not in love with you, so the whole situation has very little in common with the 'you know nothing Jon Snow' attitude, except how much you seem to know of these things maybe.

The thing is just that you did not believe that people can have more than 2 accounts and so what can all those people say who actually do? Alt accounts are pretty common.

Having been playing with them for years, I probably know way more PvPers (including gankers) than you, so whatever your experieces are, my sample of them is probably larger. You say you can make 9 out of 10 gankers flee, that's very nice, well done. Care to share some videos so that I can see who they were and what kind of ships you all were using?

Not that it very important, I guess you weren't flying a paperhull ASPX or some low tier mining ship. The very fact that they pulled a ship that was potentially capable of defeating them pretty much disproves your original statement that gankers only ever attack weak ships. That they wake after shield drop? Well, the SPEAR way is waking well before that, but would you not wake once they've dropped your shield? If you want a fight to death, duel them. In organic fights rebuys are not usually given to the opponent unless agreed upon beforehand.

Ok. I don't want to be rude or insulting. I try to be serious. I believe of course that there are people with 2 accounts. Even 3 if it's make them happy. What I do not believe I stated clearly: That the ridiculous low amount of people, if they exist, that have 6 accounts are a reason to not use the block function at all.

And again you try to negate my words with "I know more then you". Very nice that you know so much PvPers and Gankers. I don't know them, I recognize some names if they are notorious. And that doesn't matter. I have real encounters with them cause they try to gank me. I don't chat with them or drink tea with them. I don't judge them by their outfit or their knowledge about cat memes. I know them because they try to ruin my game and that of others. I don't need to know more about them.

I can make 9 of 10 gankers flee THAT I CAN DEAL WITH. There are still a lot of them out there I can't beat. But I am good at recognizing fast if they are beatable or not. If I have hints that I am outclassed I high-wake. Without shame cause I am the victim. They are the aggressors.
I normally fly a conda with 240 tons cargo space. My combat rank is only competent. At a CG gankers take me for a hauler conda and because of my low combat rank (I don't farm NPCs for rank, probably I have fought more players/gankers then npcs).
Yes the ship is fully engineered, shields, boosters, thrusters, hull armour, all. Even the weapons. From packhounds over torpedo with reverberating cascade to Mc and beam lasers. Some are turreted I admit. And a deadly fighter pilot.

I don't want to fight. I am roleplaying a logistics company director. I have been forced to fight to get my job done and guard my employees who are all casual players or more or less noobs that don't have time or nerv for engineering.

No problem with pirates, great RP and some of them are even part of my business concept (buying Contraband from them). No problem with RP based station blockades or opposing groups that officially stand against, for example one side of a CG. No problem means I accept that, not that I could easily overcome them.

But gankers that just kill one of my harmless employees because she wanted to do her first engineering step at farseer?

 

[Bigmaec]

Ok. I don't want to be rude or insulting. I try to be serious. I believe of course that there are people with 2 accounts. Even 3 if it's make them happy. What I do not believe I stated clearly: That the ridiculous low amount of people, if they exist, that have 6 accounts are a reason to not use the block function at all.

And again you try to negate my words with "I know more then you". Very nice that you know so much PvPers and Gankers. I don't know them, I recognize some names if they are notorious. And that doesn't matter. I have real encounters with them cause they try to gank me. I don't chat with them or drink tea with them. I don't judge them by their outfit or their knowledge about cat memes. I know them because they try to ruin my game and that of others. I don't need to know more about them.

I can make 9 of 10 gankers flee THAT I CAN DEAL WITH. There are still a lot of them out there I can't beat. But I am good at recognizing fast if they are beatable or not. If I have hints that I am outclassed I high-wake. Without shame cause I am the victim. They are the aggressors.
I normally fly a conda with 240 tons cargo space. My combat rank is only competent. At a CG gankers take me for a hauler conda and because of my low combat rank (I don't farm NPCs for rank, probably I have fought more players/gankers then npcs).
Yes the ship is fully engineered, shields, boosters, thrusters, hull armour, all. Even the weapons. From packhounds over torpedo with reverberating cascade to Mc and beam lasers. Some are turreted I admit. And a deadly fighter pilot.

I don't want to fight. I am roleplaying a logistics company director. I have been forced to fight to get my job done and guard my employees who are all casual players or more or less noobs that don't have time or nerv for engineering.

No problem with pirates, great RP and some of them are even part of my business concept (buying Contraband from them). No problem with RP basic station blockades or opposing groups that officially stand against, for example one side of a CG. No problem means I accept that, not that I could easily overcome them.

But gankers that just kill one of my harmless employees because she wanted to do her first engineering step at farseer?

Honestly, with the loadout you described I don't believe you can beat more then just-out-of-the-starter-zone-gankers.
Certainly no competently flown FdLs, Phantoms, Mambas, Chiefs or iClippers, and definitely not 9 out of 10.
I recommend you showing some video evidence of this, until then sorry, I believe you are the one knowing nothing.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Edited: This is a rabbit hole that could fracture the whole ED player community.

The community arrived in the game pre-fractured - as there are those who prefer PvP in a game where PvP is not required for any^[1] game feature who can't force others to play with them, and there are those who will happily play in Solo and Private Groups with no inclination to get involved in PvP. We all bought the same game even if we don't all want the same things from it.

[1] Except CQC of course, but's not a mode shared game feature as it is a game mode all of its own that does not directly affect the main game.

 

[galahad2069]

Yeah but I wasn't consenting to getting shot at

SPEAR are gankers

 

[CMDR Flavius Funk]

Open should not have a block option. Solo should have never existed.

Open should have been split into a true open server, and a zero player damage open ( including ramming and contact still results in fines near stations)
Plus the private group mode.

So still 3 choices but no more blocking and issues related to blocking, and less issues with instancing overall.

Coding would be easy for the no player damage open server.

 

[Zieman]

Solo should have never existed.

Lol, the whole game probably wouldn't exist if Solo mode wasn't in from the Kickstarter phase.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Honestly, with the loadout you described I don't believe you can beat more then just-out-of-the-starter-zone-gankers.
Certainly no competently flown FdLs, Phantoms, Mambas, Chiefs or iClippers, and definitely not 9 out of 10.
I recommend you showing some video evidence of this, until then sorry, I believe you are the one knowing nothing.

I don't care what or if you believe. I have to proof nothing to you. I don't do videos while playing, I don't even know how to do this. I play the game, simple.
And I am not the one here that pretend to know everything or be the best etc.

Doesn't matter all if you believe or not. I am sure you are so much better.... Without asking for proof.

By the way, what are you talking about? This is not about me or you. Could you please concentrate on the topic and find a solution for the gankers driving people out of open?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

This is not necessarily how it works

SPEAR is a coalition of groups of "lawful" PvPers who want to send the gankers to the rebuy screen/protect the innocent.
Doesn't work out most of the time, but I won't say more due to my history with them.
Just say generally it's an interesting concept, but the implementation is lacking, not the least due to block, instancing and
no real pvp bounty boards.

Ah come on, we might not like them, but the idea benefits everyone...

Hence gankers blocking them actually makes them more effective.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Open should not have a block option. Solo should have never existed.

Open should have been split into a true open server, and a zero player damage open ( including ramming and contact still results in fines near stations)
Plus the private group mode.

So still 3 choices but no more blocking and issues related to blocking, and less issues with instancing overall.

Coding would be easy for the no player damage open server.

Removing Solo and leaving Private Groups in place would only serve to stop console players without premium platform access from playing the game at all (they can only play in Solo). For everyone else, each player can create their own Private Group and invite no-one else to join it - et voila! - instant Solo equivalent game mode.

Frontier included the block feature in their multi-player game without needing to be asked - as they realised that there would be players who would play in a manner likely to discourage some other players from playing at all if players had to play with them.

In the Engineers launch stream, DBOBE effectively ruled out an Open-PvE game mode, citing the amount of work that would be required to remove all possible ways for one player to affect another player.

What should have happened, regarding the design of the game, is something that different players will have quite different ideas about - as we don't all want the same things.

 

[Arsen Cross]

Will just add this to the flood… but NO. As an open play purist who is friendly 98% of the time I Do not want to see people I can’t interact with in the game world. We have system chat and that’s already an irritation - We don’t need invincible ships floating around trolling people too.

 

[galahad2069]

Ok. I don't want to be rude or insulting. I try to be serious. I believe of course that there are people with 2 accounts. Even 3 if it's make them happy. What I do not believe I stated clearly: That the ridiculous low amount of people, if they exist, that have 6 accounts are a reason to not use the block function at all.

I don't want to be rude or insulting either and I was being serious all along. The reason why I brought up the multiple account thing was not to argue why you should or shouldn't block anyone, it was just an example to show why blocking cannot make other players "entirely optional" in Open.

And again you try to negate my words with "I know more then you". Very nice that you know so much PvPers and Gankers. I don't know them, I recognize some names if they are notorious. And that doesn't matter. I have real encounters with them cause they try to gank me. I don't chat with them or drink tea with them. I don't judge them by their outfit or their knowledge about cat memes. I know them because they try to ruin my game and that of others. I don't need to know more about them.

I don't drink tea with them either and although chatting is something that happens pretty often, most of the time I just pewpew with them. Mostly in organized fights, but sometimes also in organic, and believe me or not, some of them interdict me as well sometimes, why would they not? That's just how it is in Open and the reason why they are doing so in the vast majority of cases is NOT some malicious intent to ruin someone else's game. They merely like pewpewing with other people in a space game in which pewpewing with other people is part of game, in a game mode that specifically makes it possible and where it's totally within the rules. It's not like it's especially easy to lose a ship unless you choose to give them a fight to the death, but you already know that.

I don't want to fight. I am roleplaying a logistics company director. I have been forced to fight to get my job done and guard my employees who are all casual players or more or less noobs that don't have time or nerv for engineering.

No problem with pirates, great RP and some of them are even part of my business concept (buying Contraband from them). No problem with RP based station blockades or opposing groups that officially stand against, for example one side of a CG. No problem means I accept that, not that I could easily overcome them.

But gankers that just kill one of my harmless employees because she wanted to do her first engineering step at farseer?

That's very nice and I wish your company all the best of luck, but maybe PG would be a way better choice in that case, at least for the noobs, since Open has very little benefit to offer to that kind of gameplay (unless you insist on being able to encounter player pirates - not that they are a very common sight these days, thanks to blocking and combat logging, among other things). The same applies to the first engineering step at Farseer: while I'm definitely not going to go kill your harmless employees there (primarily because I'd find it utterly boring), there might be others who will. Luckily for the noobs, that medieval torture device called 'wake scanner' will work just as diabolically in any other modes as it does in Open.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

...well, if that other is an enemy, that's perfectly legit.

Don't know about some peoples arcane rules of who is enemy or not. To me it in many times seems that any moving player controlled ship is an enemy for some of them.

 

[Bigmaec]

I don't care what or if you believe. I have to proof nothing to you. I don't do videos while playing, I don't even know how to do this. I play the game, simple.
And I am not the one here that pretend to know everything or be the best etc.

Doesn't matter all if you believe or not. I am sure you are so much better.... Without asking for proof.

By the way, what are you talking about? This is not about me or you. Could you please concentrate on the topic and find a solution for the gankers driving people out of open?

You were the one writing a wall of text how you can drive off 9 out of 10 gankers in a Packhound Conda, and now you backtrack and want me to concentrate on the topic

 

[GJ51]

Is it time for the Eagles yet?

 

[Zieman]

Is it time for the Eagles yet?

See post #5 of this thread...

 

[insanephoton]

Is it time for the Eagles yet?

Always has been

 

[Darrack]

Always has been

O7

 

[Rebel Yell]

Don't know about some peoples arcane rules of who is enemy or not. To me it in many times seems that any moving player controlled ship is an enemy for some of them.

The game tells you that, when it's for powerplay reasons.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

You were the one writing a wall of text how you can drive off 9 out of 10 gankers in a Packhound Conda, and now you backtrack and want me to concentrate on the topic

Exactly. What did I wrote? Let's see... Ah... 9 out of 10 THAT I CAN DEAL WITH. And if I am so bad and my build is crap this seems to proof that gankers are indeed extremely bad PvPers that only go for easy targets because they are so bad at PvP. I supposed this the whole time, thanks for confirming.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

That's very nice and I wish your company all the best of luck, but maybe PG would be a way better choice in that case, at least for the noobs, since Open has very little benefit to offer to that kind of gameplay (unless you insist on being able to encounter player pirates - not that they are a very common sight these days, thanks to blocking and combat logging, among other things). The same applies to the first engineering step at Farseer: while I'm definitely not going to go kill your harmless employees there (primarily because I'd find it utterly boring), there might be others who will. Luckily for the noobs, that medieval torture device called 'wake scanner' will work just as diabolically in any other modes as it does in Open.

Thank you. This is, for me, the issue and why I take part in this discussions about open / solo / ganking. We need to stay in open. The business only works this way. We can not exchange goods with our business partners in solo or PG. FDev gave us no tools to do this efficient, so we have to meet up somewhere and exchange cargo or pay someone by dropping cargo. And then pick it up with limpets. It's laborious and it did not bring that much profit (exchange clean cargo for Contraband and then sell the Contraband for some credits more then the value of the clean goods). Obvious that we do this only for RP reasons.

This is why I want precious open not entirely safe but predictable.