I mean, if somehow that was a good way of manipulating BGS or something (i guess it was for a bit, with the LTD craziness, lol) if would be an improvement over the current 'click on ze menu' best option.Subsurface deposit mining.
To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?
- Thread starter AMX-008 GaZowmn
- Start date
Yes, i cant personally see how you could make it a high skill ceiling competition without combat. Id be perfectly happy to listen to suggestions on that though, its just that, currently, most of everything else in the game is extremely easy and impossible to be either good or bad at.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The game needs to be playable by all players - not just those at the top end of the skill distribution - and Frontier seem to set the challenge of their game taking all players into account.
For some, maybe - however it's a simple fact that half of players are at or below median skill.
And thats fine - a competion has to have losers as well as winners.
Demanding to be a winner without wanting to also be good at anything doesnt really get any sympathy from me, to be honest - its not like everyone has to care about 'end game competition' anyway.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - and we all have the same tools available to us in the competitive aspects of this game.
Demanding to have mode shared content retrospectively PvP gated in a game where PvP itself is optional and all players bought the game on the same terms gets no sympathy from me either.
Im actually not demanding that.
If you could suggest a way of making it so that something with more skill variables than space trucking was the most effective activity for powerplay, thats all i want. It doesnt have to be combat, but as it stands its like having 'sitting on a comfy chair' being an Olympic sport.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
In which case it's a demand for the skill requirement of existing content to be increased to suit those who consider themselves to be highly skilled at the expense of those who are not.
I take it you just dont want there to be competition in these areas at all?
It should be clear that you cant have meaningful competition unless its possible for some players to be better than others, right?
Edit: also, not suggesting that the skill requirement of existing content be changed at all. Just that its skill requirement be taken into account when determining BGS / Powerplay effects.
Last edited:
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Nope. There is already competition in those areas - available to all players who wish to engage in it, by design.
It is, however the most effective may be those with more time rather than more skill.
I dont consider that to be good gameplay, but i completely see where you are coming from now.
Meanwhile I have seen all kinds of private groups and - just to destroy this myth: PVP is allowed and wanted in some groups I like, BUT:
You need a valid reason for it. Meaning they are PVP-Roleplay servers and if you really have some beef to settle with another commander you can do that, but consequently you could also die. (Agree to delete your commander, if the other player says, he'll also destroy your escape capsule).
Has that ever happened? Let's say not often.
Then there are PGs that are like Fight Clubs. So PVP is very welcome. Indeed it's the only reason those PGs exist. (You can search for them on the forum... Never joined one, but other players I know enjoyed them. Good training and you find PVP immediately.)
In Open you have PVP players that are looking for what I would call PVP. Which is finding an opponent that would actually be a challenge and fight.
And then you have those that find it entertaining to shoot players that cannot defend themselves, because they are not in a combat vessel.
Without any gain, they shoot anything.
And many are boringly lazy, too, and just block certain bottlenecks.
That's fine with me, but I don't have to become their content, when I just return from a 2 months or so trip of exploration or do trading.
I can still join Open - which due to the size of the galaxy is pretty safe aside from hotspots anyway - when I sit in a combat vessel.
It's the downside of having to specialize your ship - or being able to specialize it as much in ED as you can.
In any case, playing a victim is not fun and so most people don't do it.
Should BGS & PP only be available in Open? No. The game is designed around optional PVP, not "PVP moar Dangerous".
You need a valid reason for it. Meaning they are PVP-Roleplay servers and if you really have some beef to settle with another commander you can do that, but consequently you could also die. (Agree to delete your commander, if the other player says, he'll also destroy your escape capsule).
Has that ever happened? Let's say not often.
Then there are PGs that are like Fight Clubs. So PVP is very welcome. Indeed it's the only reason those PGs exist. (You can search for them on the forum... Never joined one, but other players I know enjoyed them. Good training and you find PVP immediately.)
In Open you have PVP players that are looking for what I would call PVP. Which is finding an opponent that would actually be a challenge and fight.
And then you have those that find it entertaining to shoot players that cannot defend themselves, because they are not in a combat vessel.
Without any gain, they shoot anything.
And many are boringly lazy, too, and just block certain bottlenecks.
That's fine with me, but I don't have to become their content, when I just return from a 2 months or so trip of exploration or do trading.
I can still join Open - which due to the size of the galaxy is pretty safe aside from hotspots anyway - when I sit in a combat vessel.
It's the downside of having to specialize your ship - or being able to specialize it as much in ED as you can.
In any case, playing a victim is not fun and so most people don't do it.
Should BGS & PP only be available in Open? No. The game is designed around optional PVP, not "PVP moar Dangerous".
If some players turn their own gameplay into a 'boring grindfest' that would be their problem.
Some cant be bothered to grind that cap out for basic gameplay.
The mechanics are there within the game to engineer a spec to whichever suits any cmdr. Hell I've got over a dozen fully engineered ships each with its niche use. Sat on a Carrier doing what I intended them to do. Make my life as a cmdr easier.
Cant have your cake ....
I've grinded it...millions of other cmdrs have too. We ain't happy about the grind but it is what it is
Cant have your cake ....
I've grinded it...millions of other cmdrs have too. We ain't happy about the grind but it is what it is
Really the biggest negative about PvP in ED (and most MMO's) is that unless you have an incredibly crafted system of in-game laws and effects through those, you just get more 'Griefing' than any kind of meaningful challenge. The players become the problem rather then be the desired challenge input. I wish it wasn't like that but i can hold up just about nearly all mmo type games since M.U.D and give you the stories of where players play not to add to the challenge and story of the game, but to just be jerks, for the lols and kick of it.
So i'm all for a real PvP game where the game world has a well realised background story and history (such as our beloved Elite) but ALSO has a solid crime and punishment system that makes coherent sense in the in-game world's internal logic.
You want to be a bad-boy pirate? Sure go ahead and learn like real pirates in our world did a few centuries ago, just how hard that is when organised systems of government want you and your activities out of their sphere's of control. That makes sense, that is real, that could make for a great PvP game world, but in truth how many 'griefers' would want to put in the hours and effort to become good enough to live that life? Not many.
So until ED gets serious with it's crime and punishment, i'm just not interested in wasting my time for someone else's lazy lol's. One day i'll 'git good' enough at combat (as i have in other Elite games) but that is not the issue, it's the breakdown in the internal systems of game logic and the roles we play as players and how the game world treats those choices.
So i'm all for a real PvP game where the game world has a well realised background story and history (such as our beloved Elite) but ALSO has a solid crime and punishment system that makes coherent sense in the in-game world's internal logic.
You want to be a bad-boy pirate? Sure go ahead and learn like real pirates in our world did a few centuries ago, just how hard that is when organised systems of government want you and your activities out of their sphere's of control. That makes sense, that is real, that could make for a great PvP game world, but in truth how many 'griefers' would want to put in the hours and effort to become good enough to live that life? Not many.
So until ED gets serious with it's crime and punishment, i'm just not interested in wasting my time for someone else's lazy lol's. One day i'll 'git good' enough at combat (as i have in other Elite games) but that is not the issue, it's the breakdown in the internal systems of game logic and the roles we play as players and how the game world treats those choices.
I think i can see why the previous MMO ive played didnt have this problem (problem being people complaining about being killed by other players) - they were all race vs race games. So there was always an inbuilt justification for any PvP - Im an Accretian and you are a Bellato (insert races from whichever game). Space robots hate space midgets and we are at war, was all anyone ever needed. It was still ganking, gear based and one sided, but there was RP justification, automatically.
Not really caring about RP i never really realised that was the deciding factor.
Not really caring about RP i never really realised that was the deciding factor.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Was the PvP optional in those MMO?
No it was not.
In general, each race had its own leveling zone where you get get to (for example) level 30 out of 50 and the other races would not be able to access those zones. But, after that, most of the leveling areas were shared (and there were 'war' zones you could go to at any level), and another race could attack at any time. Same race PvP was not allowed/possible outside of duel requests which didnt mean anything.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which is another difference between them and this game - although those games effectively had PvP-flags in operation between players of the same race.