That sounds like it's the Original Sin.
To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?
- Thread starter AMX-008 GaZowmn
- Start date
That sounds like it's the Original Sin.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
According to some, no doubt.
The enthusiasm for unwanted PvP exhibited by some players prior to launch had consequences.
Maybe we could, if there were such a thread.
Where is it? I'm pretty sure it's long since dead. Maybe you should go find it and put your argument there to resurrect it.
This thread, on the other hand, is here, and it's been going for quite a while.
I can't personally agree with any argument that BGS in Solo is a terrible thing because... that's the the game. It's a fundamental part of the game. The PP case I accept though.
Why should they accept it when they are affected by that decision not just during the interaction but all the time before and after? lmj trade in a 16T, or jump in 25ly FDL. What I do is I play an alt for 30mins to start every session to keep myself sharp with the guns so I don't mess up since I never use them 90% of the time.
The game's not made for it. It's the fault of players for exploiting it. Everyone, including those in Solo, would happy with an Open everybody just wanted to play. Players made the status quo. Some of the blame is Frontier's, but not all and probably not even most. Some players try very hard to make the status quo.
If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?I'm under the impression that a lot of people, including myself, prefer to play Solo mode all the time, not because we don't want to play with others, but simply because we don't want to PVP others.
For comparison, let me talk to you about of one of the worst launches in recent years, Fallout 76, which to the surprise of some has actually redeemed itself (at least to some extent), but owes it survival to its community, which stood during awful first year fo the game, but also a community that confused Bethesda because the devs were convinced their players wanted more PVP... and they were proven wrong, best depicted through many of the ironic headlines that gaming journalism used to deliver the "shocking" revelation:
Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other
Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other
Bethesda was surprised to learn that Fallout 76 players didn't care much for PvP, and how the game has evolved reflects that.www.forbes.com
Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'
Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'
"It's a smaller percentage of our player base than we thought."www.gamingbible.co.uk
Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP
Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP
Bethesda VP Pete Hines reveals that the company was surprised to find that players preferred to avoid PvP in Fallout 76 in favor of PvE.gamerant.com
Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP
Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP
We just want to be friends.www.pcgamer.com
Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don’t murder each other
Why is everyone being so nice?
Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don't murder each other
When Bethesda was designing Fallout 76, it expected players to murder each other, but it turns out they'd rather just work together.www.pcinvasion.com
Don't misunderstand: Fallout 76 do had (still has to a small degree) griefers and gankers, but the vast majority of players simply preferred not to engage in PVP.
Keeping things short, today many of the ways to engage into PVP have been disabled, pacifist mode is a menu option that makes it almost impossible to engage in PVP, and while the game's reputation will forever be tarnished by its launch, its actually in a better than many people expected (which can't be said for games like EA's Anthem, which already threw the towel and cancelled further development). It still is no substitute for a proper Fallout 5, but as a casual time waster with a Fallout theme: it's passable.
Back to Elite Dangerous, I think a lot more people would like to try playing in Open Play with random strangers in Elite if they had the choice to opt out from PVP, like having an aforementioned pacifist mode that disabled PVP interactions.
But that's just my impression, and I would like to hear what other thinks on this matter:
Do you think that Open Play would be negatively affected if PVP could be disabled?
Do you think Elite could benefit from having more people try to play & cooperate with others in Open Play?
No.
ESO isnt Open only, Cyro is the only zone where pvp is enabled (which was a pain for getting the skyshards).
Therefore if you don't go in that zone you will never encounter Pvp as everything else is open world PVE.
O7
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BGS is a different proposition. Although I think a big reason to retain solo/PG influence is that FDev rely purely on players to "give life" to the political machinations in 20000 or so systems, in an incidental fashion. You could argue though that in that case the effect from closed modes should be limited so that concerted efforts at regime change are incentivised to be in open. But it's not a hill I choose to die on.
Even if it somehow became open only, the BGS is not fit for purpose.
Again we're back to some players not understanding how the BGS works.
The only way PvP could be integrated into the game is some sort of overhaul of PowerPlay, or an entirely new system that has PvP as its base and builds from there.
A back of the ciggy calculation is a CG like open only event for a power that requires some sort of protagonist and antagonist action running for a week. With 6 or so powers this gives scope for 6-12 events weekly/fortnightly etc.
This would also need beefing up of NPC participants so in the likely event of blocking/instancing/port forwarding jiggery pokery there is still some sort of challenge.
Now our console cousins have been taken out round the back and shot, it could work.
It's unlikely FDEV would move in that direction though.
Again we're back to some players not understanding how the BGS works.
The only way PvP could be integrated into the game is some sort of overhaul of PowerPlay, or an entirely new system that has PvP as its base and builds from there.
A back of the ciggy calculation is a CG like open only event for a power that requires some sort of protagonist and antagonist action running for a week. With 6 or so powers this gives scope for 6-12 events weekly/fortnightly etc.
This would also need beefing up of NPC participants so in the likely event of blocking/instancing/port forwarding jiggery pokery there is still some sort of challenge.
Now our console cousins have been taken out round the back and shot, it could work.
It's unlikely FDEV would move in that direction though.
So I dug out my CG idea to reduce murder rate in Deciat (or wherever). 
There's a leaderboard based on the rebuy costs you have caused players with a bounty on their head to incur by destroying them in PvP in that system during the CG (implies the magnitude of your deterrent effect), plus the rebuy costs you have suffered yourself at the hands of notorious CMDRs (i.e. the size of your sacrifice to the cause).
The CG reward is just some mixture of a boring cash prize plus a refunded percentage of your rebuys from the above. So there's no chance to exploit it for something amazing, but you should make a profit, even if all you do is die.
There's a bonus multiplier on the prize depending on how small the total of rebuys is for clean CMDRs in-system who were not signed up for the CG (your collective protective effect on innocent bystanders).
To be honest, something like this is perhaps just how the the "bounty hunting" part that currently happens in hazardous freight CGs should be handled for open play, or even PG too* (maybe as an extra CG you can sign up for as well as the generic bounty hunting one). Perhaps it should preclude you from signing up to the freight CG element though.
*heck, just make it trivially pan modal
There's a leaderboard based on the rebuy costs you have caused players with a bounty on their head to incur by destroying them in PvP in that system during the CG (implies the magnitude of your deterrent effect), plus the rebuy costs you have suffered yourself at the hands of notorious CMDRs (i.e. the size of your sacrifice to the cause).
The CG reward is just some mixture of a boring cash prize plus a refunded percentage of your rebuys from the above. So there's no chance to exploit it for something amazing, but you should make a profit, even if all you do is die.
There's a bonus multiplier on the prize depending on how small the total of rebuys is for clean CMDRs in-system who were not signed up for the CG (your collective protective effect on innocent bystanders).
To be honest, something like this is perhaps just how the the "bounty hunting" part that currently happens in hazardous freight CGs should be handled for open play, or even PG too* (maybe as an extra CG you can sign up for as well as the generic bounty hunting one). Perhaps it should preclude you from signing up to the freight CG element though.
*heck, just make it trivially pan modal
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Well I DO know how to get out most tricky situations. But lets face what do I GET FROM GANKER MINIGAME? All I get is waste of my time, sometimes waste of my credits, occasional rebuy if I have bad luck, or too drunk to fly. There simply is nothing net-positive for me in that equation. Null, zero and so on. Open WITHOUT ganker minigame would something else, but with it, nah.I always played in open and ate some rebuys before I figured out how to be careful and evade. Now I can fly any ship anywhere with high confidence.
If someone thinks the galaxy is full of gankers, they need to get out more. It's boring (and dishonorable) to engage unprepared players.
To die in Elite, one has to make a series of colossal mistakes. Be in the mindset of learning your mistakes (ask someone if you're unsure), have a rebuy and you'll be fine.
Would have to rename the game, remove the Elite part and also the Dangerous part.
Sorry to nitpick, but when you say "more", I think "more meat on the bones we already have" rather than "more game loops added to the already very large buffet of game loops". I already have more than enough things to do in Elite, but many of those things feel very.... half-baked (MVP). For example, I think it would be fun to be a "Fuel Rat" for NPCs, but the difference in gameplay in rescuing an NPC gets old very quick, due to simplicity and repetition, compared to the equivalent player-to-player rescues. That's just one out of dozens of examples were "PvE" is just a dim reflection of the equivalent "PvP". If these game loops already in Elite were given more attention and care, I think they could be pretty great.
Though I would love one new game feature to be added as an option for solo players - the ability to hire NPC wingmates (even if it were a solo-only feature).
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That's the issue. Ships, cargo; none of that matters when you can earn millions of credits in ten minutes. But those ten minutes, chopped out of limited gaming time for someone else's entertainment (with the suspicion that they have a lot more gaming time than me anyway)... No, I'm not doing that. I want to do something fun instead.
Yes haha there is a small chance that some of your time and credits will be consumed dealing with aggressive players. It's absolutely worth it for meeting, talking with and observing the other 99% of CMDRs.
It's just my preference, though you shouldn't expect anyone to come after you unless you're at a CG, or have a combat ship in Shinrarta, or a powerplay allegiance in a powerplay hotspot.
The player pirates who interrupted my hauling at the CG last week were worth a laugh and I had fun trolling the one person there who was outright attacking trade ships. It's fun and gives life to the game.
There were more people out protecting haulers than there were pirating them... A random wing dropped on me and chased off the pirate I was toying with! I thanked them just to be polite!
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Thats easely said if you have an appropriate ship. Most casual players doesn't have this and lacking time for the credit and engineering grind.
LMAO guys...
You seem to be perfectly happy with the game forcing you to waste your precious gaming time watching the same loading screen seven grillion times, staring at a couple of digits of the drop out countdown in supercruise, waiting for a carrier jump cooldown or ship/module transfer immersion delay or praying to RNGsus for some rare material drop, etc. etc.
The whole game is a gigantic waste of time, the few examples above tend to waste immeasurably more of your gaming time than all the gankers in the Galaxy combined, and yet you complain about those couple of minutes when you actually need to do something resembling playing a game actively...
It is not yours to decide what is a waste of time for somebody else.LMAO guys...
You seem to be perfectly happy with the game forcing you to waste your precious gaming time watching the same loading screen seven grillion times, staring at a couple of digits of the drop out countdown in supercruise, waiting for a carrier jump cooldown or ship/module transfer immersion delay or praying to RNGsus for some rare material drop, etc. etc.
The whole game is a gigantic waste of time, the few examples above tend to waste immeasurably more of your gaming time than all the gankers in the Galaxy combined, and yet you complain about those couple of minutes when you actually need to do something resembling playing a game actively...
My two favorite activities are
1. Sitting in my FC office on the command deck and checking third party tools to plan future Operations.
2. Sitting at the Bar to wait for modules arrival or the arrival of my squad buddies via Apex to do some ody stuff together.
It is mostly a sitting Simulator...but i like it this way.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - it's up to each player to choose how to play the game, within the rules of the game.
That does not make the time wasted by gankers any more palatable - thankfully the ganker mini-game is optional in this game. Each player gets to choose how to waste their time playing the game - they are under no obligation to allow other players to waste it for them nor to be content for other players.The whole game is a gigantic waste of time, the few examples above tend to waste immeasurably more of your gaming time than all the gankers in the Galaxy combined, and yet you complain about those couple of minutes when you actually need to do something resembling playing a game actively...
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Being a ganker (or in my case, a role-playing pirate) is a giant waste of time. You spend the majority of the time sitting in supercruise waiting for someone to show up. It gets boring pretty quickly IMO. It must be even worse for "seal-clubbing" gankers, because you wait all that time only to score a zero-effort, zero-skill kill in under 10 seconds. That's a lot of wait for a very tiny sliver of "gameplay".
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That's their choice of how to play - and other players can simply choose not to play with them if they don't find their way of playing to be fun.