Type-9 : shielding vs jump range - a n00b has questions...

[CommanderBoo6039]

Hail and well met, Commanders.

I'm only a couple of months into Elite, so still learning the ropes. I have a couple of ships in the fleet, the original Sidewinder, my trusty Type-6 Hauler, a Python kitted out for mining, an Asp Explorer which is currently gathering dust in the hanger until I've learnt a bit more about the exploration game, and my current steed, the Type-9 Heavy, L3viathan.
I've only unlocked one Engineer so far - Felicity Farseer - but I've engineered the FSD on all my ships for maximum jump range. It's not made a massive difference, but it's definitely helped.

I tend to play in either solo mode or private groups so I haven't suffered any griefing but of course that doesn't stop NPC interdictions.

Now in every other ship I own, I can escape these, but the Type-9 handling, as it does, like an elephant on tranquilisers, isn't going to evade much. To that end I've equipped a fighter bay and an NPC pilot (started as Mostly Harmless and has worked her way up to Novice), and I've only lost the ship (and a 30 Million credit cargo) once. However, I noticed that even though I balance my pips across SYS and WEP, even the most humble of enemies was taking my shields down and doing some serious damage in a matter of moments. I usually got where I was going, but I had a large repair bill when I got there.

So I splashed the cash on some Military Grade Composite bulkheads. It's definitely made the ship more robust, but now, fully laden, the jump range is down to about 16LY.

There's always going to be a trade off between defensive capability and jump range, but I wondered what more experienced Commanders thought was the sweet spot? Stick with the MGC bulkheads and try and make improvements elsewhere, or go for something a little less industrial and hope that between Holly, my pilot, and me, we're able to fend off the bad guys?

Cheers!

Boo

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

It's a truck, it's supposed to handle like it does. I fly the Type-9 with dirty D-rated thrusters and I've only been interdicted once.
16 ly is not enough for serious trading. So you either ditch the military bulkheads, or unlock the Guardian FSD booster.

 

[Factabulous]

You messed up somewhere OP - have you got the best 6A FSD in there? T9 is one of the few ships that will get interdicted every so often, but you still don't want to hand around and try and fight - submit, boost and jump - you just need enough shields get survive that.

This bad build gets 30+ LY https://s.orbis.zone/eivl, as Cohen says a FSD Booster will raise that. Play around in coriolis, but I wouldn't bother trying to make it a fighter. The usual advice would be to buy a Cutter (then you can dump the shields completely out of Open - as your only foe will be the ADC).

 

[CaptKarel]

I fitted my T9 with rapid firing mine launchers with various experimental effects, at least one which will cause disruption to drives and the another to the FSD. Thermal cascade will damage or take down their shields, etc.

My technique is to submit then turn towards the enemy, boost past and then drop mines. Had a kill or two with that setup, but the idea is to disrupt the enemy ship‘s attack run and slow it down. Giving you a chance to reboot your FSD and jump out. The latter works most of the time If they follow right behind you. Wait until they are in a line behind you before dropping the mines.

Most NPCs don’t realize the danger until it is too late. Players don’t fall for this most of the time.

 

[CommanderBoo6039]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions, all. I'll have a play arounds with the setup.
Yes, it's a 6A FSD, with level 5 Engineering for jump range, but everything else is stock.

Point taken about it being a truck - it's never going to handle like a sports car and I don't expect it to, but I don't like to cut and run if I can give the enemy a bloody nose!

Thanks!

Boo

 

[Captain Willard]

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[willisit]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions, all. I'll have a play arounds with the setup.
Yes, it's a 6A FSD, with level 5 Engineering for jump range, but everything else is stock.

Point taken about it being a truck - it's never going to handle like a sports car and I don't expect it to, but I don't like to cut and run if I can give the enemy a bloody nose!

Thanks!

Boo

If everything else is stock then you'll be running heavy "default" kit; replacing that (as is listed via Coriolis) and making the right stuff lightweight (again, since you should be submitting and running, not trying to evade which increases reboot time) and you're fine. Mostly.
The T9 is an interesting choice; what's its primary role?

 

[Gibbon]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions, all. I'll have a play arounds with the setup.
Yes, it's a 6A FSD, with level 5 Engineering for jump range, but everything else is stock.

Point taken about it being a truck - it's never going to handle like a sports car and I don't expect it to, but I don't like to cut and run if I can give the enemy a bloody nose!

Thanks!

Boo

Mass manager experimental effect will give you a slightly better jump range as well. In all seriousness, go and unlock the Guardian FSD booster as already mentioned. Will give your Asp Explorer something to do

 

[Kissamies]

My T-9 is massively engineered, so it's not that useful example here, but in general I think you should have good enough shields to survive until high wake. If you already have the range FSD engineering, I would recommend going to the Guardian sites to unlock the FSD booster and perhaps the shield reinforcements as well. They are of great use for ships that have bad jump range and low shield MJs otherwise. It's not a huge loss of cargo capacity to put a shield reinforcement or two on those smaller slots.

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

I'll try to give some useful advice.
Don't go with the stock equipment, D-rate everything. D-rated equipment is lighter than E-rated and will extend your jump range. It's also cheap.

Is this your setup? Just by D-rating everything you'll get an extra ly out of it.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I'd say get you some prismatic shields as soon as you can. You can get more shields out of a smaller generator, saving weight and gaining cargo capacity.

For a solo/pg player, I’d say something like this here would be virtually unkillable vs NPCs who interdict you on trade runs. 450mj goes a loooong way with Four pips to systems. The shield bank is there if you absolutely need it.

No NPC is getting through the base 450 or so shields + all the potential shielding with the 5 bank, even if you botch an interdiction. You may not even need that much, but it’s a small bit of cargo to trade for extra security.

The T9 will never be an incredible jumper, you’re looking at maybe 45 max when really stripped. Let it be thicc, and haul crazy amounts of cargo at its own pace.

 

[CommanderBoo6039]

Thanks again.

I'm running a Type-9 as I like the trade aspect of the game more than anything else - I'm at Tycoon and working towards Elite, and the Type-6 was going to take a long time to get me there.

Current spec is:

Hardpoints

2D Cannon
2 x 2F Burst Lasers
2 x 1E Seeker Missile Racks

Utility Mounts

Point Defence Turret
Heatsink Launcher
2 x Shield Boosters

Core Internals

1A Military Grade Composite
6A Power Plant
7C Thrusters
6A FSD (Engineered to L5 for Jump distance)
5E Life Support
6C Power Distributor
4E Sensors
6C Fuel Tank (Cap: 64)

Optional Internals

2 x 8E Cargo Rack (256)
7E Cargo Rack (128)
6A Shield Generator
5D Fighter Hanger with Taipan Aegis F
4A Fuel Scoop
4E Cargo Rack (16)
2 x 3E CArgo Rack (8)
1E Advanced Docking Computer
1E Supercruise Assist
1I Planetary Approach Suite

(Gives me a cargo capacity of 672. Mock the ADC all you like - it beats bouncing off the walls!)

I understand that 'cut and run' is probably the most sensible approach when running a space-going van, but a couple of things made me take this approach.

1 - I'm hopeless at combat. It took me forever to get through the training missions! This way I can (slowly) rank up by getting involved in the odd scrap and leaving a lot of the heavy lifting to the NPC pilot. In about half the cases we just need to survive long enough for the authorities to turn up and finish the job, but we still get to claim a bounty.

2 - I take the view that if you mess with me and mine, then I'm going to give you a bloody nose for your trouble. Yes, on one occasion (a Supply mission where I had four bandits sent against me), I didn't survive and it cost me dear, but so far we're hanging in there.

I'm just starting to grasp the subtleties of power to weight ratios and so forth. When I was first equipping ships I just went for 'A' rated kit wherever I could afford it. I understand the 'D - lightest', 'B - most heavily armoured' thing, but clearly there's an art to designing ship loadouts, and I'm only just starting to scratch the surface.

Not sure what I need to do to unlock the Guardian kit - I'll investigate.

Thanks to all for taking the time to reply - much appreciated!

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

Not mocking your ADC, the T9 fits barely through the mailslot.
Use coriolis for testing your ship build.
D-rate your life support and sensors.

Do you toggle your pips?

 

[CommanderBoo6039]

I do.

My routine is:

Get interdicted.
Throttle to zero.
Deploy fighter with NPC piloting it.
Target enemy.
Order fighter to attack target.
Spread pips evenly across SYS and WEP.
Switch to combat mode.
Keep hitting enemy with lasers / cannons / seeker missiles where possible.
Cross fingers.

I'll take a look at Coriolis - just twigged it's a website. I hear Coriolis and think 'space station'!
D'oh!

 

[STAR O You NO]

Personally I would always have shields.

Get size 5 prismatics reinforced hi cap.
4x A heavy duty super cap Boosters.
Size 4 FSD booster
Size 4 fuel scoop
3 and below HRPs heavy duty deep plate
Size 3 MRP

This allows you to carry 704 tonnes of cargo with 1200ish shields
Under 3k hull

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

@CommanderBoo6039 my advice drop the fighter. The T9 can't fight so don't try to make it. Use at least 3 shield boosters up to grade 5 heavy duty with super cap or as high as you can get. Prismatic shields are best but A rated will work just fine. Leave the 4th utility slot open for something else like Heat sinks or chaff. Personally I use a PD to protect me from hatchbreaker limpets or reverb torpedoes.

This is a little controversial but consider taking a reactive surface composite and lightweighting it. It's not too much of a hit to absolute damage but you get a big boost to resistances with it while shedding alot of weight. It's very effective against NPCs and not AS effective against players but it will still keep you alive long enough to jump away.

If you want to armor your FSD I believe you can still hit the mid 20s LY range with a guardian FSD booster. I personally prefer to keep using long range, though if your worried about having your FSD shot out use double braced or deep charge as mass manager lowers it's integrity by 18%.

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

The OP will not have access to that tech.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

The OP will not have access to that tech.

Took a look at his loadout and your probably right. Honestly if he can go and unlock the guardian tech most of that will help him alot I think. Still its a roadmap to work towards as far as engineering goes.

 

[GloatingSwine]

If the only engineer you have is Felicity, I would say the first thing to do is to get yourself a long range jump ship and go out to the guardian sites to get the Guardian FSD booster.

Diamondback is the cheap and easy choice.

The Type 9 isn't really a good ship to learn combat in, and ranking up without building up the fundamentals will just mean you'll be facing stronger and stronger NPC opposition without having a meaningful way to fight back. Strip the guns out, replace the fighter bay with a size 5 guardian FSD booster and you'll be jumping well. Then use the money you make in your delivery truck to fund a nice versatile medium combat ship like a Krait Mk. 2 to learn that in.

It's a truck, it's supposed to handle like it does. I fly the Type-9 with dirty D-rated thrusters and I've only been interdicted once.
16 ly is not enough for serious trading. So you either ditch the military bulkheads, or unlock the Guardian FSD booster.

Nothing you can do to your ship other than setting your throttle to 50% changes how it handles in supercruise. Changing the thrusters will change how it handles in realspace, but supercruise performance is tied to the hull. That said, you can learn to avoid NPC interdicts in the Type 9. Set throttle to 50% and make sure you use pitch, roll, and yaw all together.

This is a little controversial but consider taking a reactive surface composite and lightweighting it. It's not too much of a hit to absolute damage but you get a big boost to resistances with it while shedding alot of weight. It's very effective against NPCs and not AS effective against players but it will still keep you alive long enough to jump away.

The difference between Heavy Duty and Lightweight is only about 1LY. More effective to HD the hull armour and mount a guardian FSD booster.

 

[Captain Willard]

Look at the stats I posted earlier. Shows so well that peeps post and never read other's posts.
Weapons on a T-9? What a joke. A miner maybe. Never a trader.
OH. Someone else gave me this build, not like I'm smart or anything.
Solo and pg I might add.