UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

[LordZoltan]

As far as I know, we didn't try it with biscuits.

Biscuits: solve practically every problem ever. Unless you have diabetes, or are a platypus.

(This post sponsored by Glenfiddich)

 

[clavain]

Here we go:
I did the second part of the "Two CMDRs in the same instance test and one UA", but this time I made it with a Cobra and a T6.

I tried a lot of combinations of jettisoning, scooping, going >1Km, then <1Km, letting just one ship being scanned, letting both at the same time, I tried everything.

Well:
The Cobra ALWAYS listened to its drawing.
The T6 ALWAYS listened to the Station Name.

I can confirm what clavain described about the <1Km and targeting the UA to let it MORSE, but there is more to it:
The UA is SILENTLY MORSEING anyway, because if you select it in the middle of two honks, it starts MORSEING in the middle of some sequence, I mean it does not start from the beginning.

Huh, out of rep as usual but nice work. That last point is weird, but makes sense the more you think about it - why would we "hear" the morse unless we had locked onto it with some sort of passive sensor, if not an active one, at least? Very cool touch by the devs if that was deliberately done. But then why do you "hear" the honks and purrs without a lock-on? Passive sensor lets you hear honks and purrs, active sensor and lock-on lets you hear morse I guess.
- - - Updated - - -

Darn, Foiled again!
It would be nice to know what its baseline behaviour is before it's disturbed/targeted

You could try getting to 1.01km or something like that with the ship, and then see if the debug camera goes in beyond the 1km line - unfortunately you will have no real way of knowing when you might cross it while in debug camera mode (other than the moment it scans you perhaps)

 

[Jorge]

I've seen behavior like that from npc pirates before, but I also saw them drop in out of SC into the instance and start scooping stuff up, however they weren't doing silent running. Do you remember what the viper's shields were at?

No, but you are right. I should have checked the viper's shield status as if they were anything other than zero it would mean it couldn't have been silent running.

All I know is that I was being scanned and there were no other ships showing in my radar.

 

[clavain]

The Cobra ALWAYS listened to its drawing.
The T6 ALWAYS listened to the Station Name..

Was the T6 armed or unarmed?

 

[Tyrit Shadowstalker]

No, but you are right. I should have checked the viper's shield status as if they were anything other than zero it would mean it couldn't have been silent running.

All I know is that I was being scanned and there were no other ships showing in my radar.

While I have had stuff not show up on my radar, that generally is in hazres sites with 12 commanders and a silly amount of pirates and we're all shooting at each other.

And it usually ammounts to me running away because I can't target whatever is shooting at me.

 

[clavain]

So, I sort of hate to say this, but here is a thought, as I float in space watching a freefloater in front of my armed T6 while I record. We have lots of videos of the UA with different ships - but none of the ships themselves generally that are observing the UA. Is there a chance that the T-series ships are doing something or appear somehow different that makes the UA think they are "friendly" or "known", and therefore undeserving of a scan?

I am looking at the front of my T6 now, and as I mentioned I hate to say it, but on the front there do seem to be four angled panels on each side of the cockpit, which could potentially be construed as an octagon-shaped vessel... (if you ignore the engines)

 

[RedWizzard]

Why are you so opposed to this theory? It uses inference and deduction (which you prefer to call conjecture) but has more to it, IMO, then anything Braben supposedly ever said linking UAs to Thargoids, for which there is no evidence at all.

Why should they have a Galnet story for it? The clues were in the original FFE timeline and the altered/updated ED timeline, and the podcast. Far as I can tell there are no clues linking UAs to Thargoids, at all.

Oh, and I assume there were nav beacons and morse in 2280 as well.

Occam's razor would seem to imply there is only one alien unknown artifact/relic of this type based on the evidence we have to date, and that the podcast and timeline are talking about the UA. IMO.

I'm not opposed to it as a theory. My position is simply that there is currently very little evidence to suggest it is true. I am opposed to it being stated as fact.

 

[RedWizzard]

Thargoid related is the key in that case.

The UA is not Thargoid, because then it would not be unknown.

Still, we know Thargons can hatch inside other creatures, so nothing is ruled out.

The fact that they're called "Unknown Artefacts" simply reflects that whoever named them didn't recognise them as Thargoid (or anything else). But that doesn't imply that they aren't Thargoid. What might count against them being Thargoid is that there was a Galnet story on the Soontil Relics which stated that they "don't align with known Thargoid materials". That implies human scientists are pretty familiar with Thargoid materials which implies that the UAs also don't align with Thargoid materials (or we'd have heard about that). Of course the Thargoids may well have developed new materials since last contact and/or have materials we never got hold of.

 

[Ryuto]

What might count against them being Thargoid is that there was a Galnet story on the Soontil Relics which stated that they "don't align with known Thargoid materials". That implies human scientists are pretty familiar with Thargoid materials which implies that the UAs also don't align with Thargoid materials (or we'd have heard about that). Of course the Thargoids may well have developed new materials since last contact and/or have materials we never got hold of.

It might, after all, the Thargoids have had awhile to come up with new developments since they were last seen. It's also possible these are some kind of test beds or prototypes and that's why they don't seem to fit with what's known of Thargoid technology or materials. Possibly the Thargoid version of the U2 Spyplane? Alternatively they're non-Thargoid related Von Neumann Probes and we're all in deep trouble.

 

[EAGLE 5]

It might, after all, the Thargoids have had awhile to come up with new developments since they were last seen. It's also possible these are some kind of test beds or prototypes and that's why they don't seem to fit with what's known of Thargoid technology or materials. Possibly the Thargoid version of the U2 Spyplane? Alternatively they're non-Thargoid related Von Neumann Probes and we're all in deep trouble.

I wasn't too clear on the history behind the Von Neumann Probe definition so I looked it up.... something VERY INTERESTING happened while skimming Wikipedia... here's the quote:

"A von Neumann probe is a spacecraft capable of replicating itself.[6] The concept is named after Hungarian American mathematician and physicist John von Neumann, who rigorously studied the concept of self-replicating machines that he called "Universal Assemblers" and which are often referred to as "von Neumann machines". While von Neumann never applied his work to the idea of spacecraft, theoreticians since then have done so."



Universal Assemblers....?


Unknown Artefacts....?

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

I wasn't too clear on the history behind the Von Neumann Probe definition so I looked it up.... something VERY INTERESTING happened while skimming Wikipedia... here's the quote:

"A von Neumann probe is a spacecraft capable of replicating itself.[6] The concept is named after Hungarian American mathematician and physicist John von Neumann, who rigorously studied the concept of self-replicating machines that he called "Universal Assemblers" and which are often referred to as "von Neumann machines". While von Neumann never applied his work to the idea of spacecraft, theoreticians since then have done so."



Universal Assemblers....?


Unknown Artefacts....?

Don't feed the Von Neumann.

[video=youtube;6oCCovhlAvU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oCCovhlAvU[/video]

 

[spameroo]

Yeah, dk2 - but whenever I tried hitting the shortcut, it does nothing!

Don't tell me it does work.... Waaa! What sights I've missed if so!

I think I had to rebind the shortcut before it worked. I definitely remember I couldn't get it working when I first started playing, and it's bound to a toggle on my joystick now and does work, but I'm not 100% confident rebinding it was what made the difference. It's still kind of screwed up, because no button on HOTAS or mouse clicking can dismiss the "hey, you can still get shot in this mode!" warning, only hitting Enter on keyboard.

>_>

 

[LordZoltan]

I think I had to rebind the shortcut before it worked. I definitely remember I couldn't get it working when I first started playing, and it's bound to a toggle on my joystick now and does work, but I'm not 100% confident rebinding it was what made the difference. It's still kind of screwed up, because no button on HOTAS or mouse clicking can dismiss the "hey, you can still get shot in this mode!" warning, only hitting Enter on keyboard.

>_>

Interesting. To be fair I haven't tried it again since a few weeks after they first introduced it. I must try this again, thanks!

 

[b_laiskiainen]

I wasn't too clear on the history behind the Von Neumann Probe definition so I looked it up.... something VERY INTERESTING happened while skimming Wikipedia... here's the quote:

"A von Neumann probe is a spacecraft capable of replicating itself.[6] The concept is named after Hungarian American mathematician and physicist John von Neumann, who rigorously studied the concept of self-replicating machines that he called "Universal Assemblers" and which are often referred to as "von Neumann machines". While von Neumann never applied his work to the idea of spacecraft, theoreticians since then have done so."



Universal Assemblers....?


Unknown Artefacts....?

And yet we haven't seen them in the in the act of replicating

 

[Golaz]

Is it normal for the UA to report the Diamonback Explorer as a Diamondback Scout?
I thought I maybe did something wrong the first time i decoded it. Recorded a new sample and still the same letter patterns matching the diamondback scout.

 

[Jmanis]

And yet we haven't seen them in the in the act of replicating

Except the inadvertent duping that occured a ways back

 

[Han_Zen]

I wasn't too clear on the history behind the Von Neumann Probe definition so I looked it up.... something VERY INTERESTING happened while skimming Wikipedia... here's the quote:

"A von Neumann probe is a spacecraft capable of replicating itself.[6] The concept is named after Hungarian American mathematician and physicist John von Neumann, who rigorously studied the concept of self-replicating machines that he called "Universal Assemblers" and which are often referred to as "von Neumann machines". While von Neumann never applied his work to the idea of spacecraft, theoreticians since then have done so."







Universal Assemblers....?


Unknown Artefacts....?

I'm pretty sure they are self replicating. The UA was described by Palin as bio mechanical. Biology has a tendency to self replicate.

Thargoids use bio mechanical technology, so this bit goes in the plus column for the 'it's Thargoid' theory.

The unknown part goes in the minus column, because Thargoid biology is very well known. During the war and after it was even fashionable to have Thargoid bits on display in homes.

Thargoid technology is a little less known, or at least less documented. We don't know if it is based on Thargoids own DNA (they are DNA based) or something else. INRA probably knew, as they were able to make the Mycoid.

Another question is why would the Thargoids make UAs? What could it possibly tell them, that they don't already know? They are familiar with our part of space, our ships, technology, biology, culture and language.
If the Thargoids had nasty intentions with the UA, they would at lest make sure it did not send messages in Morse code. The UA also seem unreasonably primitive for Thargoids.

They only explanation I can think of for regular Thargoids is that they are in trouble and need our help. If the Mycoid vaccine did not work, did not arrive or the Mycoid became resistant they may be stuck without the ability to travel.
Sending out primitive self replicating probes, based on some local alien biology may be their last hope. This may be a method of travel they used in the distant past, before they discovered hyper-space travel. That could link it to the 'non human relic'.

It's not easy to logically shoe horn the UA into the Thargoid boot, but it is possible. There is also no real conflict between the UA being Thargoid and the UA being the non human relic.

 

[rizal72]

Was the T6 armed or unarmed?

I tried both

And yet we haven't seen them in the in the act of replicating

Perhaps they are shy...

Is it normal for the UA to report the Diamonback Explorer as a Diamondback Scout?
I thought I maybe did something wrong the first time i decoded it. Recorded a new sample and still the same letter patterns matching the diamondback scout.

I've already said few posts ago, that I've accidentally "inverted" the sequences when I firstly decoded them.
Moreover, If you carefully watch the drawings, you'll notice that one of the two ships is longer: that one is the DBX I've accidentally transcribed as the Scout.
That's all.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Been skmmling the bubble after remembering the weird GALnet tinfoil article mentioning Andromeda.
Doing just numbers games in my head, I decided to just check out System like 49 Andromedae or 64 Andromedae (as the nn Andromedae series of Systems is nearby and well within the "action radius" of UA activities), and I can match the troubled Systems (49 & 64 Arietis).

Apart from filling my DBX mighty Cargo hold of 8 tons with stuff like Painite, Occupied Escape Pods, Ancient Artefact, Small Survey Data Caches etc. from random Signal Sources, I went into every SSS I could find.
In addition to the typical Bounty Hunter vs. Pirates Gang fight, I noticed alot of Medical Convoys (which chatter IMHO somewhat resembles the original Timocani UA NPC chatter).

My train of thought about it after the cross-country tour 60-150 LY from the bubble and back into the Pleiades :
- the Federation Navy clearly were the first to carry UAs in their Convoys (chatter : Mission is a go, looks like we're all looking at promotions)
- the Medical Ships (Python) essentially chatter the same, so to me these are Federation Navy controlled (the only other Navy would be the Empire - I'd expect those to use Imp Ships instead of Python/Vulture)
- Federation in general is keeping shut about it, they're on a zero-communication or cooperation mode

- Ishmael Palin initially worked for a Federation Research Program
- he broke up with the Federation / they closed the Program (which means he and the Feds have severe differences in attitude or plans about/for the UA)
- he opened up his own indepentent Research (GALnet labeled his step as being "defiant")
- recently GALnet told that unknown intruders nearly made it with the clear intent to destoy his lab

Having read the Medical Convoys carry "Medical Studies" or something to that tune, the original Mycoid Virus by INRA came to my mind.

My take on it on a "current events" interpretation :
- IMHO the Federation's stance towards the UA is the same as towards the original Thargoids, possibly towards anything Alien. It's regarded as a threat and plans are made to counter & destroy that threat. Offensive, destructive stance.
-> connecting the Medical Studies/Convoys with that : IMHO they might seek to build a "new Mycoid virus" or something like that as a Weapon vs. the UA (or anything it represents, which remains unknown to date)

- Palin seems opposed to that and purely research-oriented. Neutral/Friendly and non-destructive approach.

-------------------------
I didn't find any UAs of course, but if I had one... I'd bring it to Palin's Station, as everything possible apparently has been done with or to UAs. Wouldn't have any better or more obvious ideas.
I don't expect anything really new to develop before V1.5 hits anyway - just like it has been in the past. UA story seems very heavy on "development in progress" background.

The only thing I would try : see if I can honk the Discovery Scanner "at the right moment" (pure speculating that there might be tiny time windows I might pick something up, sort of a "UA does tiny space/time continuum rips for communication purposes" and I might piggyback a Scanner Pop on top of that). Very remote plan though
If the UA is decaying in space, I'd proably sit next to it with a fully charged HyperDrive - waiting to jump at the exact moment it expires. Just see what happens (don't think it would bring up something though).

 

[AlexVII]

The only explanation I can think of for regular Thargoids is that they are in trouble and need our help. If the Mycoid vaccine did not work, did not arrive or the Mycoid became resistant they may be stuck without the ability to travel.
Sending out primitive self replicating probes, based on some local alien biology may be their last hope. This may be a method of travel they used in the distant past, before they discovered hyper-space travel.

I don't want to seem too pushy with this idea, but maybe UA are looking for someone who could help (president or emperor).