UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

[Golaz]

hmm...if we put the back of 2 cobras against eachother they would form an octagon? maybe the UA will draw it in morse?

 

[fyo]

I don't want to seem too pushy with this idea, but maybe UA are looking for someone who could help (president or emperor).

"Take me to your leader"?

Kind of hard to do in-game, though.

 

[AlexVII]

"Take me to your leader"?

Kind of hard to do in-game, though.

I think it will be another article from GALnet or something

 

[rizal72]

The only thing I would try : see if I can honk the Discovery Scanner "at the right moment" (pure speculating that there might be tiny time windows I might pick something up, sort of a "UA does tiny space/time continuum rips for communication purposes" and I might piggyback a Scanner Pop on top of that). Very remote plan though
If the UA is decaying in space, I'd proably sit next to it with a fully charged HyperDrive - waiting to jump at the exact moment it expires. Just see what happens (don't think it would bring up something though).

I've discovery scanned the UA in every way. And remember that the DS plays some random notes from a pool of five, each time is started. I've already tried everything with it, the notes and the UA.
The jump test was one of my first theory ever, back in the first thread. Was tried in every way.

As LordZoltan says, only biscuits we didn't try...

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

I recorded this over a long duration. Hopefully it'll be of help to someone.

[video=youtube;NFZE2zPvhwE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFZE2zPvhwE[/video]

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I've discovery scanned the UA in every way. And remember that the DS plays some random notes from a pool of five, each time is started. I've already tried everything with it, the notes and the UA.
The jump test was one of my first theory ever, back in the first thread. Was tried in every way.

As LordZoltan says, only biscuits we didn't try...

Hehe, I knew someone would likely have done all that already.
Although benign - it really seems selling the UAs in the Black Market at the "right place" might remain their sole purpose for now... anything else seems to have been done. Including the weird, the crazy, the very weird and weird crazy stuff

 

[Cynaqq]

I'm pretty new to the game and to the UA mystery.

I do have a fascination for Sci-Fi stories and love discussing them so, here goes my pet theory. I hope no one hates it too much since I'm not familiar with the lore intimately.

I'm writing this in hopes of being enlightened on the history of the game by adding to the discussion:

Is there any reason for the UAs not to be rogue AI, copied from human technology back in the day by the Thargoids, somehow replicating themselves.

This, in my mind, opens up the possibility of humans and thargoids working together in order to rid themselves off of a threat which is a combination of both sides' technologies. It would be a really cool addition to the overarching story I think.

It makes sense to me since the artefacts are bio-mechanical and apparently can use (or mimic) human technology. It also have some qualities described by people here on these threads that could indicate the UA not being entirely in our space-time but maybe somehow at a cross-over. IIRC, thargoids normally exist in a different space-time therefore it should be possible for something that exists in both places to be a mutual threat.

I'll be really happy if some of you could criticise my post

 

[Dommarraa]

I'm pretty new to the game and to the UA mystery.

I do have a fascination for Sci-Fi stories and love discussing them so, here goes my pet theory. I hope no one hates it too much since I'm not familiar with the lore intimately.

I'm writing this in hopes of being enlightened on the history of the game by adding to the discussion:

Is there any reason for the UAs not to be rogue AI, copied from human technology back in the day by the Thargoids, somehow replicating themselves.

This, in my mind, opens up the possibility of humans and thargoids working together in order to rid themselves off of a threat which is a combination of both sides' technologies. It would be a really cool addition to the overarching story I think.

It makes sense to me since the artefacts are bio-mechanical and apparently can use (or mimic) human technology. It also have some qualities described by people here on these threads that could indicate the UA not being entirely in our space-time but maybe somehow at a cross-over. IIRC, thargoids normally exist in a different space-time therefore it should be possible for something that exists in both places to be a mutual threat.

I'll be really happy if some of you could criticise my post

If they were AI, they would be better. They would not make silly drawing mistakes, would not moan and scream all the time, and would use Binary instead of Morse.

 

[AlexVII]

Another one of my theories is that UA is a kind of a safe, and the data it sends - is a combination or the code, which is needed to open the "safe". And finding the right "system (station) ship" combination, we will open the UA. After all, it even looks like (and is called) as a container.
But most likely it was one of the first theories and again I say nonsense.

 

[Jmanis]

Is there any reason for the UAs not to be rogue AI, copied from human technology back in the day by the Thargoids, somehow replicating themselves.

So, this is just my opinion, but I've not dismissed this one yet. The old article that appeared in Galnet was:

Reports coming from GalNet correspondents in the Old Worlds this week have noted a sizeable surge in illegal technology being shipped throughout the sector. Details as to the exact nature of the tech are currently sketchy at best. Some witnesses report large shipments of alien weaponry have been passing through the docks in Lave. Others claim rogue scientists operating in Riedquat have been experimenting with biomechanical enhancements. Still others say that a band of malicious software engineers from Quator have been working on a new type of hostile Al. Whatever the truth, Commanders travelling to the Old Worlds are advised to be on the lookout for any suspicious activity and to avoid all unknown wings when passing through the area.

This foreshadowed the time the UA's got "noticed".

We know AI existed in Elite lore, and it was a very bad thing. While we'd like to think it's all gone now and we don't play with it anymore, you can still find "AI Relic" cargo in some strong signal sources (though I've not seen one for a while).

There's no reason a rogue AI couldn't have had contact with Thargoids/some other alien race at one point and adopted some of their technology, and taking on the form of the UAs. This would explain several points, being:

A) Why they appear to be semi-organic (contact with alien tech, sightings in old-world systems)
B) Why they know morse (descendant from human technology)
C) Why they (potentially) cause system failures at stations
D) (arguably, but longer than I want to explain) Why they screw with ship systems when being carried.

I've been pretty quiet from this thread for a while; been fighting my own wars and not focusing on the UAs for now. I've had that idea on the backburner for a long time, but there's simply nothing to back it up other than a neat way to tie all plot points together.

If they were AI, they would be better. They would not make silly drawing mistakes, would not moan and scream all the time, and would use Binary instead of Morse.

Unless years of exposure to space, cosmic rays etc has corrupted it in some way

 

[Jorge]

...Alternatively they're non-Thargoid related Von Neumann Probes and we're all in deep trouble.

Ah, yes, Von Neumann probes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN-FU8VPoOc

There may be something to that theory. I wonder if with the coming of Horizons and planetary landings we are going to start seeing these things seeding planets. They do look like a weird kind of flower bud that could at some point open up and release a cloud of spores.

 

[Cynaqq]

If they were AI, they would be better. They would not make silly drawing mistakes, would not moan and scream all the time, and would use Binary instead of Morse.

Oh, didn't think of it this way.

Maybe they are capable enough so they are laying dormant, cunningly, allowing themselves to be carried into stations. This clashes with the fact that they damage ship systems though. Why would they do that if they actually wanted to be carried?

 

[RedWizzard]

I'm pretty sure they are self replicating. The UA was described by Palin as bio mechanical. Biology has a tendency to self replicate.

Thargoids use bio mechanical technology, so this bit goes in the plus column for the 'it's Thargoid' theory.

The unknown part goes in the minus column, because Thargoid biology is very well known. During the war and after it was even fashionable to have Thargoid bits on display in homes.

Thargoid technology is a little less known, or at least less documented. We don't know if it is based on Thargoids own DNA (they are DNA based) or something else. INRA probably knew, as they were able to make the Mycoid.

Another question is why would the Thargoids make UAs? What could it possibly tell them, that they don't already know? They are familiar with our part of space, our ships, technology, biology, culture and language.
If the Thargoids had nasty intentions with the UA, they would at lest make sure it did not send messages in Morse code. The UA also seem unreasonably primitive for Thargoids.

They only explanation I can think of for regular Thargoids is that they are in trouble and need our help. If the Mycoid vaccine did not work, did not arrive or the Mycoid became resistant they may be stuck without the ability to travel.
Sending out primitive self replicating probes, based on some local alien biology may be their last hope. This may be a method of travel they used in the distant past, before they discovered hyper-space travel. That could link it to the 'non human relic'.

It's not easy to logically shoe horn the UA into the Thargoid boot, but it is possible. There is also no real conflict between the UA being Thargoid and the UA being the non human relic.

Pretty solid reasoning. I agree that from an in game point of view we don't have any real reason to think they're Thargoid in origin except that according to that Radio Lave episode MB said there are only two known sentient races: Thargoids and the extinct indigenous race from Achenar, which would imply the UA would almost have to be Thargoid assuming they're not of human origin (and Prof Palin does like to call them "extraterrestrial"). But in DB's Q&A he stated there were other races out there so that reasoning isn't so strong these days. From a meta point of view we've got those comments by DB and MB, and the fact that Thargoids will be in the game at some point as they've both mentioned several times. IMO it would be a slightly odd decision for FD to focus on some other race first when so many people are waiting for Thargoids. Those factors tip the balance for me in favour of the UA being Thargoid related, if not Thargoid created.

The 2280 relic could indeed be Thargoid. The main argument against is the same as the argument against the UA being Thargoid, i.e. we know a lot about Thargoids yet the relic hasn't been recognised as theirs. I think that argument is weaker for the relic though, because we don't necessarily know a lot about Thargoid tech from 1000 years ago (see also the suggestion that the Soontil Relics are ancient or offshoot Thargoid tech). But knowing there are more races around makes it less likely that the relic is Thargoid as the more races there are the more different sorts of space junk you'd expect to see; think how humans have littered space with space stations, nav beacons, probes, ships both whole and wrecked, abandoned cargo, etc. And I'd expect that FD will want to foreshadow the fact that there are more races in the game and/or lore.

So my million credits are on the UAs having something to do with the Thargoids and the 2280 relic being something else entirely.

 

[Han_Zen]

We know AI existed in Elite lore, and it was a very bad thing. While we'd like to think it's all gone now and we don't play with it anymore, you can still find "AI Relic" cargo in some strong signal sources (though I've not seen one for a while).

I would not say AI was a portrayed as a very bad thing in the lore. In the FE2/FFE era, Androids lived among humans and were very well integrated in society. In the Federation they enjoyed the same basic rights as humans. They occupied important positions in society (ie CEO of Sirius Corporation). Top models were almost impossible to distinguish from humans. There were probably hundreds of millions of them.

Something dramatic happened over the past 45 years. Either they 'turned bad' in some way or they were accidentally killed by the rouge Mycoid that ate plastic. This is a piece of the story where we are completely in the dark.

 

[Special Circumstances]

I'd just like to remind everybody....

 

[Anjin]

If they were AI, they would be better. They would not make silly drawing mistakes, would not moan and scream all the time, and would use Binary instead of Morse.

Personally, I don't think they are AI, but if they were it's no guarantee that they'd use binary.

We use binary in most present day computers because it's straightforward to implement using logic gates, but there have been ternary logic computers and way back in the day, analogue computers. Who knows how a sufficiently advanced AI would have been built. Neurons seem more analogue than digital as well.

An AI wouldn't have to be limited to speaking in its mode of operation any more than a person would be. That leaves open the possibility of 'speaking' Morse, especially if it's the only thing it’s been exposed to to learn. A newborn AI might still have to learn how to do anything well, from drawing pictures to finding a purpose in life.

 

[Special Circumstances]

On the topic of sending wireframe morse to the UA. I was just perusing the original 1984 Elite Manual, and there are ship schematics in it, in wire-frame. Might it be worth converting them to Morse and sending?

I don't have the time, or the skill, but thought I'd mention it.

 

[Jmanis]

I would not say AI was a portrayed as a very bad thing in the lore. In the FE2/FFE era, Androids lived among humans and were very well integrated in society. In the Federation they enjoyed the same basic rights as humans. They occupied important positions in society (ie CEO of Sirius Corporation). Top models were almost impossible to distinguish from humans. There were probably hundreds of millions of them.

Something dramatic happened over the past 45 years. Either they 'turned bad' in some way or they were accidentally killed by the rouge Mycoid that ate plastic. This is a piece of the story where we are completely in the dark.

Do you have any more info besides this snippet? This is part of my running theory... having played Frontier and FFE back when, but not being too cogniscient of AI within the game.

They specifically mention some escaping into deep space in the video... sooo... HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!

Personally, I don't think they are AI, but if they were it's no guarantee that they'd use binary.

Binary is quite inefficient. http://nookkin.com/articles/computer-science/why-computers-use-binary.ndoc

"We only use binary because we currently do not have the technology to create "switches" that can reliably hold more than two possible states. "

 

[Han_Zen]

Pretty solid reasoning. I agree that from an in game point of view we don't have any real reason to think they're Thargoid in origin except that according to that Radio Lave episode MB said there are only two known sentient races: Thargoids and the extinct indigenous race from Achenar, which would imply the UA would almost have to be Thargoid assuming they're not of human origin (and Prof Palin does like to call them "extraterrestrial"). But in DB's Q&A he stated there were other races out there so that reasoning isn't so strong these days. From a meta point of view we've got those comments by DB and MB, and the fact that Thargoids will be in the game at some point as they've both mentioned several times. IMO it would be a slightly odd decision for FD to focus on some other race first when so many people are waiting for Thargoids. Those factors tip the balance for me in favour of the UA being Thargoid related, if not Thargoid created.



The 2280 relic could indeed be Thargoid. The main argument against is the same as the argument against the UA being Thargoid, i.e. we know a lot about Thargoids yet the relic hasn't been recognised as theirs. I think that argument is weaker for the relic though, because we don't necessarily know a lot about Thargoid tech from 1000 years ago (see also the suggestion that the Soontil Relics are ancient or offshoot Thargoid tech). But knowing there are more races around makes it less likely that the relic is Thargoid as the more races there are the more different sorts of space junk you'd expect to see; think how humans have littered space with space stations, nav beacons, probes, ships both whole and wrecked, abandoned cargo, etc. And I'd expect that FD will want to foreshadow the fact that there are more races in the game and/or lore.

So my million credits are on the UAs having something to do with the Thargoids and the 2280 relic being something else entirely.

That's fair. Clavaian would argue that it's the other way around. Domarraa would probably argue that the entire speculation is futile and unscientific. I'm still on the fence in this case. I think you all have some good points and I like the discussion.

 

[rizal72]

That's fair. Clavaian would argue that it's the other way around. Domarraa would probably argue that the entire speculation is futile and unscientific. I'm still on the fence in this case. I think you all have some good points and I like the discussion.

AhAhAhAh!

I love you guys! (oops I forgot CAPS & bold!)

PS: ...and LordZoltan would throw some water on the fire