Update 14 and Beyond: Live and Legacy Modes

Old Duck

Old Duck
Hellrider said:
And no, steam revievs definetely means something.
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I always find it interesting that the people who say Steam reviews mean nothing immediately follow that statement up with their own glaringly positive review of the game, expecting you to believe them over the countless reviews that contradict their narrative.

At least with Steam reviews, you're only allowed one per game.

ps - anyone who disagrees with this post is either a bot or part of some nefarious post-bombing plot out to get me. 🤪
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
tanner1ie said:
Surely it's the same and requires the same hardware as Odyssey when they're supposed to be the same codebase!

If people are having trouble running Odyssey properly, surely they're having trouble running Horizons 4.0 properly without super computer level hardware?!

(Which of course could be fixed by optimisation but hasn't yet been!) 😯😂
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No, that's not how it is.

Sure, Odyssey and Horizons run on the same codebase. But Odyssey's performance issues are most prominent when you are in on-foot conflict zones or in stations. The rest of the game doesn't run much worse than 3.8. You'll probably lose a few FPS around space stations and planetary surfaces in Horizons 4.0 but saying you need a €2000 PC for it is just ridiculous.
By the way, even Odyssey runs 100 FPS @ 1440p / ultra on my RTX 3070.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
babelfisch said:
Horizons 4.0 is a free update to an 8 years old game.
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A serious question regarding this - reading between the lines, it sounds like Horizons 4.0 will become the defacto game that is installed by default after the next update, with Legacy becoming the new "optional" game. Is this how you read it? I asked Bruce about this, but his reply avoided answering this very specific question..

Put another way, do you think Steam will automatically schedule a Horizons 4.0 download for non-Odyssey owners when this next update drops?
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Old Duck said:
A serious question regarding this - reading between the lines, it sounds like Horizons 4.0 will become the defacto game that is installed by default after the next update, with Legacy becoming the new "optional" game. Is this how you read it? I asked Bruce about this, but his reply avoided answering this very specific question..
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I would guess that 3.8 will be removed completely within 1 or 2 years. At some point Frontier are going to say that only 2.8% of people use it and abandon it.

Old Duck said:
Put another way, do you think Steam will automatically schedule a Horizons 4.0 download for non-Odyssey owners when this next update drops?
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I think that Steam will check which version you have installed. If there are no Horizons 4.0 files they are probably not going to download it.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
babelfisch said:
I would guess that 3.8 will be removed completely within 1 or 2 years. At some point Frontier are going to say that only 2.8% of people use it and abandon it.
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Of this I have little doubt.

babelfisch said:
I think that Steam will check which version you have installed. If there are no Horizons 4.0 files they are probably not going to download it.
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I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If 4.0 becomes the new default Horizons, Frontier is going to have to change the minimum specs on their Steam page. If it doesn't (if default Horizons remains 3.8), then that'll be quite the nightmare when someone buys Horizons next week and then buys Odyssey "DLC" a few months later, only to find themselves back in their starter Sidewinder. It seems to me that switching to 4.0 as the default is a necessity at this point, because of this split in CMDR saves.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Old Duck said:
Of this I have little doubt.


I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If 4.0 becomes the new default Horizons, Frontier is going to have to change the minimum specs on their Steam page. If it doesn't (if default Horizons remains 3.8), then that'll be quite the nightmare when someone buys Horizons next week and then buys Odyssey "DLC" a few months later, only to find themselves back in their starter Sidewinder. It seems to me that switching to 4.0 as the default is a necessity at this point, because of this split in CMDR saves.
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Yes, if you are a new customer they'll probably install 4.0 as default.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Fnord Velkor said:
as far as I could see GPU and CPU were not maxed
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If the GPU isn't maxed out and you aren't capping FPS, it's almost certainly a CPU (memory) performance bottleneck. In your case is that CPU utilization figure is aggregate for all cores that is also averaged out over a full second; that figure doesn't reveal per-core utilization, or catch transient loads (which could be peaking for a fraction of each frame).
 

tanner1ie

tanner1ie
babelfisch said:
No, that's not how it is.

Sure, Odyssey and Horizons run on the same codebase. But Odyssey's performance issues are most prominent when you are in on-foot conflict zones or in stations. The rest of the game doesn't run much worse than 3.8. You'll probably lose a few FPS around space stations and planetary surfaces in Horizons 4.0 but saying you need a €2000 PC for it is just ridiculous.
By the way, even Odyssey runs 100 FPS @ 1440p / ultra on my RTX 3070.
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Well how much do they cost?

Quite recently YouTube channels like Gamers Nexus were talking about the seriously inflated prices of all PC parts, but in particular graphics cards and how hard they were to get...

Saying in many cases people were buying new PCs just to get their hands on the graphics cards installed in them.

While most people don't have the skill or knowledge to build their own PC, so have to buy pre built systems anyway.

Long story short, PC parts and building them seems to be a minefield and as always consoles are much easier and safer, which makes it an even bigger shame Elite on consoles is basically dead and the game isn't coming out on next gen systems! 😯😂😀🤘
 

tanner1ie

tanner1ie
babelfisch said:
Completely irrelevant because it's not necessary to play HORIZONS 4.0.

This discussion is getting quite tiresome, I would appreciate it if you get the point.
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Well the point is and as I alluded to in my last post, IF it doesn't cost €2,000 to buy (and I say buy explicitly as most people won't as said have the knowledge or skill or take the risk to build their own PC, particularly if they're coming straight from consoles), a pre built PC that can run Odyssey, Horizons 4.0 etc well - how much would one cost, in your opinion?!

"only" €1,500?! 😯😂😀🤘
 

Sakashiro

Sakashiro
Old Duck said:
A serious question regarding this - reading between the lines, it sounds like Horizons 4.0 will become the defacto game that is installed by default after the next update, with Legacy becoming the new "optional" game. Is this how you read it? I asked Bruce about this, but his reply avoided answering this very specific question..

Put another way, do you think Steam will automatically schedule a Horizons 4.0 download for non-Odyssey owners when this next update drops?
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"Legacy mode will be accessible from the launcher as a separate download from the Live game."

How they package this for Steam remains to be seen. They could change it so that only the launcher install is managed by Steam, or they include launcher and client 4.0 in the Steam package and manage client 3.8 through the launcher. Of course the former option would be preferable for those who want only the legacy game. If client 4.0 becomes part of the Steam package, you can still uninstall it through the launcher, but then Steam will recognize the install as incomplete and redownload client 4.0 at the next opportunity (update or file verification).
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
Morbad said:
If the GPU isn't maxed out and you aren't capping FPS, it's almost certainly a CPU (memory) performance bottleneck. In your case is that CPU utilization figure is aggregate for all cores that is also averaged out over a full second; that figure doesn't reveal per-core utilization, or catch transient loads (which could be peaking for a fraction of each frame).
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Memories of Crysis absolutely hammering a single thread.
 

tanner1ie

tanner1ie
Sakashiro said:
"Legacy mode will be accessible from the launcher as a separate download from the Live game."

How they package this for Steam remains to be seen. They could change it so that only the launcher install is managed by Steam, or they include launcher and client 4.0 in the Steam package and manage client 3.8 through the launcher. Of course the former option would be preferable for those who want only the legacy game. If client 4.0 becomes part of the Steam package, you can still uninstall it through the launcher, but then Steam will recognize the install as incomplete and redownload client 4.0 at the next opportunity (update or file verification).
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Probably best to list the two modes as separate games, with Frontier giving a free key to the "upgrade" to all those who own the game on Steam.

Though only time will tell how they actually handle the two installs on Steam and through other launchers... 🤔😀🤘
 

DrinkyBird

DrinkyBird
Sakashiro said:
"Legacy mode will be accessible from the launcher as a separate download from the Live game."

How they package this for Steam remains to be seen. They could change it so that only the launcher install is managed by Steam, or they include launcher and client 4.0 in the Steam package and manage client 3.8 through the launcher. Of course the former option would be preferable for those who want only the legacy game. If client 4.0 becomes part of the Steam package, you can still uninstall it through the launcher, but then Steam will recognize the install as incomplete and redownload client 4.0 at the next opportunity (update or file verification).
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Best thing might be to just separate them into two separate Steam apps and add the new app into the base ED package. That way users can [un]install whatever version they want without it getting screwed up by steam or the launcher.
 
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