Patch Notes Update Update 2.1.03 Incoming

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Great stuff, but, what about the overload of powerplay enemies in RES locations? It kindof kills the purpose of being rank 5 with hudson/duval when you spend all your time fighting enemies that don't give bounty and don't grant merits in those sites.

So if I am level 5 with say todd and I don't get a special I will be demoted to level 3 and will then need to craft 3 level 3's and 3 level 4's to get back to where I was?

What if I craft a level 1 upgrade, do I get demoted back to level 3 ?

Sorry to be a grumpy git, but with so many people protesting about the material acquisition and RNG mechanics if it is how I describe it hasn't that just thrown a whole load of petrol onto things?

You gotta be kidding,right? If not expect pitchforks and torches coming soon.

really? intended? Do you have a source?

Surely this is just piling salt on the whole RNG nature of the game and just makes the whole "nothing is real and is just spawned on arrival" feeling. I know nothing is real and it is all made on arrival and some people choose to reset instances to get better "whatever" be it stuff/ships etc, but actually forcing us to do it, by jumping out and back in to the same wreck to get different loot is just rubbing our faces in it imo.

surely it has to be better for the game to spawn what we need 1st time - even if we have to hunt around a bit for it - that we we do not get to see the jarring disconnect of the lack of persistance in the game.

Where is the storage for commodities and materials ???

Also, why is no engineer offering improvements for the discovery scanners ?!? They are all so ridiculously slow in scanning the systems/details... please we Explorer need that improvement urgently !!!

Thanks for the rest...

People don't want cheap or quick. They want meaningful and related to player skill. The two things are very different.

If you do lose 2 reputation levels per mod that just sends people back around the RNG upon RNG upon RNG loop 6 more times to get back to where they were.

I'll say it again. It's not the time it takes that's the issue. It's the method used to get there

Michael, developers...

This patch is great.

But!

I have a single point to make, which is - storage!

When you introduced Engineers, you also introduced cargo-as-a-reward. Often, this cargo-as-reward is something which an Engineer would want, for one of their modifications.

This means that as time goes on, a player now has to cart cargo around with them everywhere they go, which does two things;

1) Increases the likelihood that a pirate sees said cargo

2) Extra weight of ship and less cargo space for other normal gameplay cargo.

It seems to me that it would have been logical to implement cargo storage at stations, at the time Engineers was released. Either that, or in the absence of cargo storage, have made Engineers not require cargo items for modifications, instead only using collected materials, and have missions only give materials as rewards.

You could have designed Engineers such that some materials necessary for some modifications were only available from missions, if you didn't have the time to implement Storage.

The Engineers implementation as it stands is designed to create too much burden and hassle on the player due to the reasons stated above. My question is; what are your thoughts on this and are there any plans afoot to change this situation for the near future?

In a situation where many players are obviously unhappy with engineers due to the amount of grind it imposes, and some very well known streamers that are usually full of praise for Elite openly making videos about their unhappiness with 2.1, the decision to remove not one but two levels if you want to apply a weapon special effect and haven't randomly received one already seems unwise. I guess I'll see it in action but a system where you just need to spend an additional amount of materials for a special effect without any randomness or rep loss involved might have been better. Spend 2 more refined focus crystals for thermal conduit, or 1 polonium and 2 chemical processors for a force shell, that sort of thing (random examples).

Great update,
I'm a Mostly Harmless/Broker/Ranger, so the interdiction cap at my combat rank is a good thing, now I can try to fight back and not only escape (that's the boring thing, to have to escape over and over again).

However, about the engineers grind, why don't allow the players to use credits?

1 - Put a commodity market for materials (rare that worth millions) in the engineers base.
2 - Remove the need of commodities that take cargo space and substituite them with credits, from thousand to millions for upgrade.

To me this will remove the grinding, the need of station cargo, the waste of time finding materials and reward players for doing what they love to do, since everything in the game has credits as reward.
And at the same time, finding some rare materials will be a way to avoid spend a lot of credits, or a way to make credits selling those materials to engineers.

Another thing, since Elite is a mmo, why not create a material market for players only?
So one who has rare materials can sell them for credits to another player.

Base assaults are...impossible solo. I stopped bothering. This part of ED is...a polly-gone (pun intended)
So the only reason to land on a planet is to look for rocks. With that said...my motivation to even bother with that is evaporating fast.

I'm beginning to wonder if the other game developers of that other kick-starter space sim game are looking at all the mistakes Frontier are making with a keen eye. And I am looking at their game now...with an even keener eye.

And when I do quit ED...and put my efforts into another game...that's it for ED as far as I am concerned. I want time invested to bring the rewards. If there are no rewards...that will always be in my mind when I consider it. I get that sour feeling in my stomach when I look at the ED launch icon now. Its the same with WOW. Eight years played. And I get physically sick at the thought of loading it and getting into it again. All the bad memories of why I quit WOW just flood back and I get depressed.

We all have these hopes and dreams. How sad it is...that you have to wake up to reality. And you can never remember a good dream. What a bummer!

I don't mind working for something. Happy to work for it. Unfortunately we can't do that.

You are confusing "slotting coins into a slot machine and getting a random result" with "working for something".

Please stop, Ive spent days working on engineers, Ive tested everything, and youre completley wrong and insane.ROLLING 100 OVERCHARGED RANK 5 MODS TO MAYBE GET 1 INCENDIARY AMMO MULTICANNON IS NOT WORK ITS INSANITY.

To me the only problem in base assoult is the impossibility to target ground enemy from the ship.
If they'll bring back this opportunity, they'll make me able to destroy skimmers and turrets fromn my shine ships with engineers upgrades, I'll be back to do those missions.

Really, everything that's wrong with the engineers update will be solved with three things:
1 - Target ground enemies from ship
2 - Materials market at engineers bases
3 - Engineers accept credits instead of commodities.

Baaaam, no more need to grind (you can buy materials), no more need of cargo space (you can use credits), no more need wings to base assault (you can do all with your ship).

Ships

- All shields now regenerate at double rate when in supercruise

That's good, but how about making it x4 and adding a Hull repair module like the good old days.[haha]

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Thanks. This helps restoring some faith. I just wish we'd also got a little more info on what you plan to do.
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We don't need the exact patch notes a lot of time in advance. But I think I am not along when I say, I'd really like to have a rough outline of what you plan to do in advance. First of all, this could help a lot for calming the waves in the forum and perhaps turn the negative feedback into an optimistic outlook again.
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As a bonus, if you give us a rough outline of what you consider to implement, we can also give feedback on that.

Yes, of course we'll still argue about it, some people will consider any change to be bad, but that's kind of tradition on gaming forums. It still could improve things a lot here. In case of doubt, just sometimes make threads along the line "among other options, we consider x or y. What do you think of either?"
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Everybody would win, doesn't sound too bad to me.

I can't say it enough places - this is a really bad idea in my opinion. You end up with all of this huge beautiful galaxy being essentially the same, because all the opposition is tailored to us, instead of unique to our location. The result is that there is no reason to move around, no reason to avoid some areas, or even seek them out because the danger and corresponding reward is higher. Please reconsider this and make opponents spawn based solely on:

- Where you are
- What security level the system is in
- What state the system is in (war/famine makes NPC's more aggressive)
- What missions you are carrying
- What cargo you are carrying
- What bounty you have on you
- What powerplay faction you are pledged to

I'm sure other additions can be thought of, making certain areas of the galaxy more dangerous for whatever reason fits with the ongoing story line.

The following should only affect how the spawned NPC's react to you, not determine what NPC's spawn:
- Player combat rank (Elite combat ranked players should see that lower ranked NPC's are scared of them and refuse to attack)
- Player ship (Corvette/Cutter pilots should not be interdicted and attacked by suicidal Eagles, they should steer clear and run if you deploy hardpoints)

What it does do is 'reset' progress (at least in the eyes of player) back several levels of stacked RNG. It still has nothing to do with player skill, experience and it does not remove the fact that the player is still separated from the process.

I do like the idea of favour system, but perhaps a less punitive cost would be in order. Let's say for every favour you call in, you then need to craft a module back again to regain it.

Again, it's not the time it takes it's the method by which it's obtained that's the issue. The favour system just makes the player go around the loop 6 more times and when going round the loop once is creating such negative feedback alas I can only see this system making the outcry worse.

So you drop back to rank 3 and then have to grind back up to 5? That sounds grindy. Maybe make it cost more materials to force an effect in advance?



As an Elite combat player, I'm really not a fan of your Quantum Ogre spawn system now. When trying to run Engineers in my low weight, high range Asp explorer, I am getting attacked every 2-3 systems by a deadly or elite FAS, FdL or Vulture. I can therefore no longer use this Asp, the ship pretty much doesn't exist anymore for me because in a fight it doesn't stand a chance against your super high accuracy plasma lobbing Elite pirates.

The galaxy shouldn't get more dangerous just because my ranking went up.

do you think needing to re-craft 3 level 3 and 3 level 4 based on an unpopular and clumsy mechanic is acceptable?

if so why? Are you really saying that what we have now is the very best way of doing things?

I don't think of reputation as a commodity to be freely traded away. The engineer suddenly likes you two levels less because you wanted an experimental effect?

Immersion, no.

I agree, RNG makes sense in some way here, but leaving it at the end can ruin whole experience, as you are gonna loose all your progress.

So if there would be a way to grind engineer rep in other ways and then at some points or after some missions you will receive a message

"I've manage to get THIS SPECIAL EFFECT for your weapons, if you want to get it lease deliver me this and this ... "


nice patch by the way

+1 rep to most of the commanders who I have quoted above - would be all of you but the limitations of the rep system prevent me from being too generous :-(

There are a lot of valid points in those posts I've quoted, so I won't repeat everything in my own words, Instead I will merely chime in to note that I am inagreeance with the comments quoted above.

 

[Quineloe]

yeah the sys eng nerf is HUGE even on an unmodded one. I can't fathom why you would so significantly nerf it.

 

[Starender]

Message to Devs:

- it seems that the bug that cancel our thruster up after we set off the landing gear is back
- regarding the eng/system distributor, i suggest to put it in between how it was in 2.1 and 2.0, now ships like the DB scout can't boost all the time which means that other ships that should be slower are as fast as it (or even faster), and that is not normal at all.

 

[Falcon_D]

- Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none

Hello,
Do these Elite and Deadly ships have weapons or module mods or both?

Thank you.

 

[Ambrosius]

Hi everyone,

update 2.1.03 will be released this morning for all platforms. Servers will be turned off at 10 am BST, and should be live again within 2 hours. The update contains the following changes listed below.

For Xbox One players the download size is 1.2 GB.

Thanks!

Michael

very good Job! Congratulations!

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Fantastic!

Now can you please add System Security Level to the Galaxy Map, so we can all see it, without needing to do the merry dance...

- Select System
- Select System Map
- Wait 5-10 seconds for it to load
- BACK
- Select System
- Select System Map
- Wait 5-10 seconds for it to load
- BACK
- Select System
- Select System Map
- Wait 5-10 seconds for it to load
- BACK
- Select System
- Select System Map
- Wait 5-10 seconds for it to load
- BACK

Actually, nobody does this, because it's unusable that way.

So very few people are aware of Security Level topology as they travel about the galaxy.


It would be great if they could see it. Please!

I approve of this post

 

[FX2K]

- Added Can Land AtS tation Checks to all Alternative offer inbox messages, preventing the player from talking Alternatives that require Horizons content

Nice list of fixes there, good job FD!
I hope this also includes outpost's for ships that can't land there.. and not just focusing on Horizons content

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

I feel exactly the opposite, i think he's very right and point out some very frustrating and very important aspect of engineers.

Brilliant response. I thought I'd reply properly just so Frontier know that there are other players just enjoying the game. I haven't gone anywhere near Engineers since it launched.

I even feel a bit disappointed in Obsidian Ant in his recent video for joining this ridiculous bandwagon.

Obsidian Ant has very respectfully highlighted a gameplay gap or design flaw which imho applies to a range of ranking and progression topics. Simply put there appears to be intentional padding and slowing down of rate of progression forcing you into repeated tasks IF you want to progress and some players do. There needs to be a smart option for players that sit back and think of clever or inventive ways to overcome this forced grind. Personally I love the way engineers forces you to branch out and do different stuff that is a stroke of genius... but having to repeat over and over again is not good gameplay and is a flaw in ED currently. I think the problem FD has is that once someone figures out a smart way to do things and they share it with the community it quickly becomes a defacto way of achieving goals by teaching others. I'm not sure padding and RNG is the right way to go about addressing that though, work for something yes I totally get that but not "thou shalt take weeks before you earn it".

On a positive note I am very pleased to see the frequency of updates and changes coming from FD, good work guys.

 

[Micha]

I can't say it enough places - this is a really bad idea in my opinion. You end up with all of this huge beautiful galaxy being essentially the same, because all the opposition is tailored to us, instead of unique to our location. The result is that there is no reason to move around, no reason to avoid some areas, or even seek them out because the danger and corresponding reward is higher. Please reconsider this and make opponents spawn based solely on:

- Where you are
- What security level the system is in
- What state the system is in (war/famine makes NPC's more aggressive)
- What missions you are carrying
- What cargo you are carrying
- What bounty you have on you
- What powerplay faction you are pledged to

I'm sure other additions can be thought of, making certain areas of the galaxy more dangerous for whatever reason fits with the ongoing story line.

The following should only affect how the spawned NPC's react to you, not determine what NPC's spawn:
- Player combat rank (Elite combat ranked players should see that lower ranked NPC's are scared of them and refuse to attack)
- Player ship (Corvette/Cutter pilots should not be interdicted and attacked by suicidal Eagles, they should steer clear and run if you deploy hardpoints)

I largely agree with you. But there should be (at least) 2 distinct types of NPC's:
* Location-specific NPCs (traders, fighters, bounty-hunters, etc etc etc)
* Player-specific NPCs (primarily bounty-hunters and mission-specific ships)


The former should be PURELY spawned based on the current location, and the state of it. They should then react based on your current loadout (ship, weapons, cargo, BUT NOT MISSIONS!), and possibly your combat rank (assuming they've scanned you). A low-rank pirate should think twice about taking on a fully armed Anaconda piloted by an Elite combateer.


The latter should be spawned based on your missions and bounty. If you take on a low-powered mission, you don't expect Elite Anaconda's on your tail just because you're Elite, the mission-spawned ships should be based purely on the level and nature of the mission.
Bounty hunters should be based primarily on your bounty and loadout and secondarily on your combat rank. The higher the bounty the higher the hunters that are interested in you, and since mostly they aren't suicidal, they would be equipped to deal with you.

 

[dementia]

I largely agree with you. But there should be (at least) 2 distinct types of NPC's:
* Location-specific NPCs (traders, fighters, bounty-hunters, etc etc etc)
* Player-specific NPCs (primarily bounty-hunters and mission-specific ships)


The former should be PURELY spawned based on the current location, and the state of it. They should then react based on your current loadout (ship, weapons, cargo, BUT NOT MISSIONS!), and possibly your combat rank (assuming they've scanned you). A low-rank pirate should think twice about taking on a fully armed Anaconda piloted by an Elite combateer.


The latter should be spawned based on your missions and bounty. If you take on a low-powered mission, you don't expect Elite Anaconda's on your tail just because you're Elite, the mission-spawned ships should be based purely on the level and nature of the mission.
Bounty hunters should be based primarily on your bounty and loadout and secondarily on your combat rank. The higher the bounty the higher the hunters that are interested in you, and since mostly they aren't suicidal, they would be equipped to deal with you.

I'd agree with that. The NPCs should mirror how it would work in reality. No Elite level Anaconda bounty hunter would waste their time chasing after a Harmless bounty of a few thousand credits.

 

[Jmanis]

- Fixed softlock when quickly selecting refuel/repair/restock after opening station services
- Fix softlock when signing out as we enter Hyperspace
- Fix for softlock when loading at settlements
- Fix a softlock when approaching or loading in an Engineer's base

Unreasonably happy about these.

 

[Iskariot]

They could do the slider thing like with poulation so we can still see system types. Maybe even give a jump calculation that goes through the highest security systems possible in the shortest distance possible.

I would like a permanent security level indicator at the left hand side of the HUD, next to the system name: HSec, MSec, LSec, or something like that.

 

[Prasinus]

The docking computer seems to be broken. Takes you to the right of the landing pad.

 

[Bzek]

I can't say it enough places - this is a really bad idea in my opinion. You end up with all of this huge beautiful galaxy being essentially the same, because all the opposition is tailored to us, instead of unique to our location. The result is that there is no reason to move around, no reason to avoid some areas, or even seek them out because the danger and corresponding reward is higher. Please reconsider this and make opponents spawn based solely on:

- Where you are
- What security level the system is in
- What state the system is in (war/famine makes NPC's more aggressive)
- What missions you are carrying
- What cargo you are carrying
- What bounty you have on you
- What powerplay faction you are pledged to

I'm sure other additions can be thought of, making certain areas of the galaxy more dangerous for whatever reason fits with the ongoing story line.

The following should only affect how the spawned NPC's react to you, not determine what NPC's spawn:
- Player combat rank (Elite combat ranked players should see that lower ranked NPC's are scared of them and refuse to attack)
- Player ship (Corvette/Cutter pilots should not be interdicted and attacked by suicidal Eagles, they should steer clear and run if you deploy hardpoints)

A billion times this. Spawns based on player rank is really poor design. The suggestions above are far, far better. It would make systems dynamically different and worthwhile visiting and turning into usual hunting grounds and bases of operation.

 

[conrad1878]

been doing that for awhile

 

[Viking84]

Bounty hunters should be based primarily on your bounty and loadout and secondarily on your combat rank. The higher the bounty the higher the hunters that are interested in you, and since mostly they aren't suicidal, they would be equipped to deal with you.

Totally agree Your bounty level is something you control by the way you play - getting a higher bounty should equal higher and higher rank ships trying to get you, and they should not attack you unless they are at least fairly evenly matched. So if you get a small bounty, you'll encounter some low level bounty hunters but they will see your ship and try to escape. Keep racking up your bounty and you'll finally meet someone who is willing to take the chance for the payout, and attacks you.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'd agree with that. The NPCs should mirror how it would work in reality. No Elite level Anaconda bounty hunter would waste their time chasing after a Harmless bounty of a few thousand credits.

indeed, however, a harmless person can in theory run up large bounties, and a harmless trader in a T7 can still carry 100s of tons of juicy cargo, indeed you may argue a pirate would be attracted to low ranked ships with nice cargo.

 

[Tinman]

I don't think of reputation as a commodity to be freely traded away. The engineer suddenly likes you two levels less because you wanted an experimental effect?

Immersion, no.

Makes sense to me if the Engineer is a "eccentric scientist/tinkerer", which is what they are suppose to be.

You come to them. They tinker away and might even come up with something extra for you which they are proud of.

You tell them "Meh...do this instead!".

If they like you they will do it...but they are still going to be grumpy about it.

This is perfectly fine and also a cool new mechanic I want to see implemented in other areas. Basically allowing us to use up favours with factions for certain benefits.


---

The main problem is how we gain favours with Engineers IMO. Some allow us to gain through exploration data, bounties for example...these are fine.

The ones who only allow us to gain rep through doing modifications with them, even though we don't even need these since it's the only way to gain rep, are not fine. Especially now since we might already have level 5 mods already where all we want to do is to apply specific specials to these. Being forced to do lower level mods just to build up rep again for the next special while discarding all the results is indeed bad.

Engineers should be tied to or become a minor faction instead (can be the same types of missions we already have). When you do work for this faction you gain rep with the Engineer aligned to it...just like how we gain rep with todays superpowers by doing work for minor factions aligned to them.

 

[Viking84]

A billion times this. Spawns based on player rank is really poor design. The suggestions above are far, far better. It would make systems dynamically different and worthwhile visiting and turning into usual hunting grounds and bases of operation.

Imagine this - you'd have some places that because of their dangerous nature would become known names here on the forums: "You went there? Holy ****, what setup did you use to survive in there? What were the missions like? Did the station look different?"... at the moment it doesn't matter where you go, everything is the same

 

[Eera]

I saw that thread about 16 hours ago of this post, many points were made in it. It was forwarded on as well.

Great to see that we can expect a RNG remove on the engineer module update.