Patch Notes Update Update 2.1.03 Incoming

[Marc_Hicks]

Add your voice to this suggestion:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/266220-Material-and-Data-market

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267515-(Hear-me-out-)-Small-scale-micro-resource-market

I think that's a terrible idea. As I've said elsewhere, there are better options.

We know that the "Call in a favour" mechanic will be coming in relation to factions, so hopefully this can be used to haggle with factions over Mission Payouts. This could include asking for materials that you currently need.

I've also suggested making the finding of rare and exotic materials more skills based by using Detailed Surface Scanners to improve the odds of finding them, & by making the SRV Wave scanner able to distinguish between PoI's based on the rarity of the materials they contain.

Another suggestion I've made-though my least favourite-is to remove some of the more exotic materials as a requirement for these upgrades, but that having those materials added in improves the chance of a better upgrade outcome. This is part of my broader hope that material quality will help to decide the outcome of upgrades.

Either way, I do wish people would actually give some of these changes a go before deciding they hate them.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Missions
- Changed the effects of the states for the piracy, planetary and mining missions to be a "positive" effect when the player successfully completes the mission - on these templates it was backwards

I'm not exactly sure what this means.

I've been fighting a small war for a minor faction, and despite my untold number of successful skimmer sorties my minor faction's influence plummeted sharply. Would this have done it?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

But if i force the special effect its still one level, and i waste another to choose right? So i still can force the random experimental effect for one level?

Only if you don't like the Special Effect you get from forcing it.

 

[Captain Warp]

What I want to know is, if you are at say lv1 rep with an engineer can you still choose?
i.e the rep can't drop below lv1, but you can still use the feature.
Or do you need to be at least at lv3 to be able to force and select?

 

[Gaxel]

If FD believe RNG is good for the game, they need to make a convincing case as to why. I've played dozens of hours since 2.1 went live, and I haven't yet managed to get a single rank 5 weapon mod on any ship. Now they think it's reasonable to lose two full, grind-heavy ranks of reputation just to get the item you actually want in this horrible system. It's absolutely inexcusable that these things weren't even tested in the Beta phase.

I agree.
The RNG in the creation phase is ok, the need to lose ranks in order to obtain an item is a very bad thing.
I think they could used credits instead. ie. This upgrade cost x if you want it in the casual way, x*1000 if you want it in a specific way.

It's a more realistic way to deal with the problem.

 

[Brian of Earth]

Not sure if this will happen.




If I understand this correctly not every NPC you meet will be Elite, only the ones that interdict you. Could be wrong of course

If things are unchanged from the last time I was in a NAV beacon, most spawns were Elite, some Deadly. Even the System Authority Eagles were Elite. It was kind of ridiculous really..

It wasn't every ship, but enough where you would just sit there and marvel at all the various ships with "Elite" plastered on them Like every skilled NPC in the quadrant was hanging out in my little NAV beacon spawn..

And now, these ships will have Engineered weapons? I don't mind combat but I also don't want to fly around and have to do combat all the time, takes away from everything else. No problems yet, just hope when I get back in after the patches it's not constant "Mortal Kombat" in space. I guess we'll see

 

[Marc_Hicks]

If FD believe RNG is good for the game, they need to make a convincing case as to why. I've played dozens of hours since 2.1 went live, and I haven't yet managed to get a single rank 5 weapon mod on any ship. Now they think it's reasonable to lose two full, grind-heavy ranks of reputation just to get the item you actually want in this horrible system. It's absolutely inexcusable that these things weren't even tested in the Beta phase.

Maybe because you ground your rank whilst not bothering to find the things you needed to make it worth your while. This is a common complaint from the grinders.

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I agree.
The RNG in the creation phase is ok, the need to lose ranks in order to obtain an item is a very bad thing.
I think they could used credits instead. ie. This upgrade cost x if you want it in the casual way, x*1000 if you want it in a specific way.

It's a more realistic way to deal with the problem.

That's a terrible idea. Then you've just made it so that people who are better at grinding credits get an advantage over everyone else in the game. "Favour" as a form of currency is actually perfectly good as far as I'm concerned.....it's a feature they've already announced is coming to our relationships with factions. Again, nobody is forcing you to sacrifice rep for a special effect, or even a specific special effect. Why don't you try the new mechanism though, before hating on it, or is that too novel of a concept for you?

 

[SuperSanchous]

- Players can now spend favours (reputation levels) to control experimental effects on blueprints

First step to get rid of RNG. Good job, keep it up.

 

[Baelydon]

**EDIT** I'm stupid, so I had to delete my entire question...NVM

 

[Gaxel]

I think that's a terrible idea. As I've said elsewhere, there are better options.

We know that the "Call in a favour" mechanic will be coming in relation to factions, so hopefully this can be used to haggle with factions over Mission Payouts. This could include asking for materials that you currently need.

I've also suggested making the finding of rare and exotic materials more skills based by using Detailed Surface Scanners to improve the odds of finding them, & by making the SRV Wave scanner able to distinguish between PoI's based on the rarity of the materials they contain.

Another suggestion I've made-though my least favourite-is to remove some of the more exotic materials as a requirement for these upgrades, but that having those materials added in improves the chance of a better upgrade outcome. This is part of my broader hope that material quality will help to decide the outcome of upgrades.

Either way, I do wish people would actually give some of these changes a go before deciding they hate them.

But why looking for materials if they're only reason is to buy engineer's upgrades? When you have installed the one or two you need, they are useless.
And if I don't want any upgrade, why I should end up with 1000 materials and 500 data on the ship?

Creating a data and material market, will create a new way to make credits (maybe using surface scanner and other things like you suggest) and a new reason to make credits.

But most important, with a materials market you can play the way you want not the way FD want (that in almost any case is a bad way to me) in order to obtain an engineer's upgrade.

 

[Guywired]

Hi everyone,

update 2.1.03 will be released this morning for all platforms. Servers will be turned off at 10 am BST, and should be live again within 2 hours. The update contains the following changes listed below.

For Xbox One players the download size is 1.2 GB.

I have to say, I'm REALLY liking that the platforms are synch'd now.

THANK YOU!

 

[Teklow82]

- When determining the rank of NPC ships for interdiction, use the player's combat rank, rather than their highest PF rank, although add 1 rank if their trade or exploration rank is higher than their combat rank


So you mean to tell me. all the Players that have a mid to higher COMBAT rank because of FD's blunder on NPC AI's for so long. Now after AI improments have to suffer the wrath of the New AI . I see alot of crying and complaining followed by another unneeded balance in the near future.

 

[Artie]

If FD believe RNG is good for the game, they need to make a convincing case as to why. I've played dozens of hours since 2.1 went live, and I haven't yet managed to get a single rank 5 weapon mod on any ship. Now they think it's reasonable to lose two full, grind-heavy ranks of reputation just to get the item you actually want in this horrible system. It's absolutely inexcusable that these things weren't even tested in the Beta phase.

They were tested in the beta and there was a feedback that RNG crafting may be not a good solution. Although this feedback led to the current favors system for the special effect and some tweaking (more favorable rolls, as far as I know), it does not led to the change of the overall crafting conception. It was interpreted that engineers are like "crazy engineers who aren't able to create above-the-stock parameters on a regular basis", so it will stay that way. But, honestly, it is just some kind of the background story and it doesn't justify if any game mechanism is good or bad or if it is fun and rewarding or not. I think everybody (or at least majority) loves Sandro, but I think (probably) his stubborn decision to keep the current RNG system wasn't a good step. Just my personal opinion, of course.

 

[Flimley]

Very nice.
Hooray for updates. \o/

Flimley

 

[Ozric]

The scale isn't either a whiner or a white knight it's somewhat grayer than that. Of course there are people that want an I win button, and these views shouldn't be taken into account just as those who go around elite singing the "everything is awesome" song from the lego movie should'nt be.. It works both ways

I don't see them as concessions, as calling them that assumes the decision to go the way they have was correct in the first place.

Of course frontier have the right to stick two fingers up and go "well this is the way it is" but then they then cant also be surprised when people say "fine, i'll go do something else then"

What I(and I cant talk for everyone) have been saying is that I want a progression system that
1. Feels involving for the player
2. Has multiple ways of achieving it rather than just a single RNG or quit choice at the end
3. Rewards skilful play
4. Gives the player a genuine and lasting feeling of being rewarded for time spent
5. Provides a good balance between too much and too little time to accomplish

I mean surely that cant be too hard a thing to want does it? Shouldn't we be expecting(in a nice way) more of the developers and designers?

In all honesty and in my view the engineers mechanic hits none of those 5. How many does it hit for you?

Don't worry I know there are many shades of grey I wouldn't see it as them sticking up 2 fingers, because that also assumes that the players should be able to change and influence the game in any way they see fit. Are there many, if any, other games that will accept such criticism (I know a fair amount is constructive, unfortunately most is just abusive) of the way they have designed their game and then change to accommodate as quickly as FD do?

Answering your last question is tricky. I don't see how 1 and 4 could not be there already, if you've been working towards a specific upgrade then surely you'll be happy with your reward of what you were striving for. 2 and 3 I don't understand, you mean another way of getting the special effects that doesn't use the engineers? And define skillful play, do you mean a minigame that's hard and you have to win in order to get the upgrade (I don't think you do, but cannot think of another definition of skillful). 5 depends on the individual surely, each person will decide how much time they think is worthy of getting an extra 10Ly jump range, or overcharged weapon with a special effect.

Out of your list, which I've already admitted I don't really understand, I'd say 2.

 

[Privata]

I will miss the old AI.
Even if this is just 1% of a nerf , its 1% less fun

 

[Ian Skippy]

If FD believe RNG is good for the game, they need to make a convincing case as to why. I've played dozens of hours since 2.1 went live, and I haven't yet managed to get a single rank 5 weapon mod on any ship. Now they think it's reasonable to lose two full, grind-heavy ranks of reputation just to get the item you actually want in this horrible system. It's absolutely inexcusable that these things weren't even tested in the Beta phase.

A question none of the 'grind-complainers' can answer so far: why do you need to get everything within some weeks of release? Why not simply accept that the top two ranks take a lot of time, and ignore them for the time being? Its always the same around here:

New ships? Oh no, I need them ASAP. Quickly, lets grind, then complain about the grind!
Powerplay? Oh no, I need to be rank5 ASAP! Quickly, lets grind, then complain about the grind!
Rankings? Oh no, I need to be triple elite ASAP! Quickly, lets grind, then complain about the grind!
Engineers? Oh no, I need to have the highest quality mods ASAP! Quickly, lets grind, then complain about the grind!

Every time FD does anything the same people do the same things with the same results and post the same complaints in the same ways. Hint: You don't *need* any of that, and certainly not ASAP, so you dont have to 'grind', but you can if you want to. And apparantly you can also grind if you dont want to.

 

[Gaxel]

Maybe because you ground your rank whilst not bothering to find the things you needed to make it worth your while. This is a common complaint from the grinders.

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That's a terrible idea. Then you've just made it so that people who are better at grinding credits get an advantage over everyone else in the game. "Favour" as a form of currency is actually perfectly good as far as I'm concerned.....it's a feature they've already announced is coming to our relationships with factions. Again, nobody is forcing you to sacrifice rep for a special effect, or even a specific special effect. Why don't you try the new mechanism though, before hating on it, or is that too novel of a concept for you?

Because everything you do in Elite grants you credits, that are useless to you if you already own the ship you want.

And in real life, everything you want need money, so why Elite should be different?
Why we get credits for everything, missions, combats, mining, trading, bounty hunting, salvage wreckable, piracy, and we don't have a way to spend those credits?
Why in 3300 nobody came up thinking "If I found materials that engineers use to build those fancy effects and upgrade, why not selling them to people who is looking for them?"
Why engineers should prefer commodities that they can buy anywhere instead of credits? It's like in 3300 we'll use barter again instead credit cards.

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- When determining the rank of NPC ships for interdiction, use the player's combat rank, rather than their highest PF rank, although add 1 rank if their trade or exploration rank is higher than their combat rank


So you mean to tell me. all the Players that have a mid to higher COMBAT rank because of FD's blunder on NPC AI's for so long. Now after AI improments have to suffer the wrath of the New AI . I see alot of crying and complaining followed by another unneeded balance in the near future.

That's applied only to NPC that comes specifically for you, because the mission you are doing.
Not all the NPC you can find in a system.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

But why looking for materials if they're only reason is to buy engineer's upgrades? When you have installed the one or two you need, they are useless.
And if I don't want any upgrade, why I should end up with 1000 materials and 500 data on the ship?

Creating a data and material market, will create a new way to make credits (maybe using surface scanner and other things like you suggest) and a new reason to make credits.

But most important, with a materials market you can play the way you want not the way FD want (that in almost any case is a bad way to me) in order to obtain an engineer's upgrade.

They're not, though, they're also useful for synthesis. Plus, pretty much all the materials are available through multiple activities.....not just one....so your claim that FD is getting you to play the way they want (which is ludicrous for starters) is just a load of rubbish. Maybe if you tried playing your own way, & stopped obsessing about the Engineers, you might be surprised just how easy these materials end up in your possession.

 

[Alex Traut]

Pretty much. It's one level if you've naturally received an experimental effect to choose one, if you haven't then it's two - one to force the experimental effect, and the second to choose what it is. It's free to remove an effect.

I understand the need to balance this, but considering what is necessary to grind rank beyond the first few, this sounds improperly balanced and excessively punishing at higher grade levels. If the cost is an entire grade of access, then players who have earned more rep with the Engineer, and supposedly have a better relationship with them, will receive a greater penalty that takes them far longer to recover from.

For example, let's take a player with Grade 2 access, and a player with Grade 5 access. Both spend a grade to select an effect on the exact same Grade 1 recipe. The player with G2 access gets reduced to G1, and the player with G5 access gets reduced to G4. What is now required for each of them to recover?

The G1 player must craft three G1 recipes to get their G2 access back. The G4 player must craft three G4 recipes--the equivalent of dozens of G1 recipes, at minimum--to get their previous access back. When you convert these requirements into the raw reputation numbers that we don't get to see, surely FD at least can see that the "price" for the exact same thing is at least an order of magnitude more severe for the player who supposedly has a better reputation with the Engineer! This will have the effect of a disincentive towards ranking up--why put all that effort into the higher ranks if all that effort can be undone with a single favor that would cost you far less time to recover from at a lower rank?

I suggest the following: the cost of the "favor" should be relative not to your rank with the engineer, but to the rank of the recipe for which you are calling in the favor. So if I have Grade 5 access to Tod, and I want to churn out a bunch of G1 Efficient Multicannons with Incendiary, that's not a big deal to him--this is small potatoes stuff considering my relationship with him, and I can recover the spent rep pretty quickly. But nailing that effect to a G5 Efficient should be a big penalty, and even adding the effect to a G1 should have a hefty relative cost for the player with lower rep.

If this is already how it works, I apologize. But that's now how you've made it sound.