Patch Notes Update Update 3.3.01

[aRJay]

I'm not looking for anything to change, I'm looking to be able to continue to use an existing tool that did not need to be removed. Had it not been removed there would be no issue, there is only an issue now because needless work was done, and needs to be undone.

The AspS is generally regarded as a pointless ship. Should it be removed just because some don't like it & don't use it? What about those that do like & use it? It's already in the game, it works, it's presence affects no player that doesn't use it, just leave it in.

Same with the ADS.

You are not looking to continue to use an existing tool because that tool no longer exists, you want Frontier Devolpment to spend time and money re writing the code to bring back the now non existent tool in such a way that it works with all the new code they have written.

Your argument with with the Asp is not comparable because it hasn't been written out of the game, the old discovery and surface scanners have been.

You would do far better in the suggestion forums trying to get a module that automates the FSS included in the game as that is the only way you are likely to get one touch exploration back.

 

[shadowwar]

The Codex is a real mess. I am just finishing a round trip of about 28,000 LY and the Codex shows 31 discoveries. What a crock of hits (anagram!)

 

[Azirphaeli]

The Asp-S was never meant to be replaced by something and never meant as a placeholder what the ADS clearly was. What a bad analogy, even I can do better! [haha]

Also the ADS did *need* to be removed because the developers of the game felt they *needed* to replace that garbage with actual gameplay and they get the final say.

They don't want to waste time and resources continuing to support something that they believe actively makes their game worse, something they'll have to do as they continue to expand exploration gameplay. Having to design any new gameplay systems, encounters, and events around people both using FSS and ADS is extra work, time, code, and bugs. Pretending like there's no cost to leaving it in the game is just nonsense. As such, the call to remove it was entirely required.

 

[Marcus Tullius]

Agreed. This isn't just a dead horse, it's a lost horse. R.I.P ADS.

This horse will never die alongside with pre-engineers, offline and Open PvE mode horses…

 

[Scubadog]

In my opinion, the new LSS is NOT what I consider value-added "gameplay". I hate mini-games, and the LSS is pretty much just a mini-game. I play ED to fly a ship, not to stare at a mini-arcade screen. That's my main problem with the new LSS. Since I use VR, the LSS absolutely takes me out of the immersion and has me doing something that is not even fun to begin with. Now, I totally LOVE the new surface scanner probes. THAT keeps me immersed in the game. I wish they could have figured out a MUCH better way to do the LSS.

 

[Scubadog]

So, I can confirm that the VR fix they implemented allegedly for the Vive rigs also fixed it for the Windows Mixed Reality gear---I can now see the scanning effect and signal intensity blobs while in VR. Excellent job!

 

[GonzTheMalificent]

I used to read about "freezing" on the forums and wonder what folks were talking about - alas, since 3.301 I get a screen freeze - always so far in "normal" space - every 20 minutes or so.


Not working for me, the freeze fix...…..

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Agreed. This isn't just a dead horse, it's a lost horse. R.I.P ADS.

 

[Rat Catcher]

In my opinion, the new LSS is NOT what I consider value-added "gameplay". I hate mini-games, and the LSS is pretty much just a mini-game. I play ED to fly a ship, not to stare at a mini-arcade screen. That's my main problem with the new LSS. Since I use VR, the LSS absolutely takes me out of the immersion and has me doing something that is not even fun to begin with. Now, I totally LOVE the new surface scanner probes. THAT keeps me immersed in the game. I wish they could have figured out a MUCH better way to do the LSS.

I use VR too - the FSS takes me out of the game just about as much as the other 'screen based' activities, in other words not at all, as the seperate screens have been introduced for a purpose. It would be nice if they could 'curve' the remaining 'flat' screens though.

Maybe I have less 'immersion' in playing as it seems a natural activity to me.

 

[Azirphaeli]

I use VR too - the FSS takes me out of the game just about as much as the other 'screen based' activities, in other words not at all, as the seperate screens have been introduced for a purpose. It would be nice if they could 'curve' the remaining 'flat' screens though.

Maybe I have less 'immersion' in playing as it seems a natural activity to me.

Same here, there's nothing wrong with feeling like I need to look at a monitor or screen to do science.

 

[Sole Trader]

Agreed. This isn't just a dead horse, it's a lost horse. R.I.P ADS.

Unfortunately you are probably correct although it does not detract from the fact that the FSS is a cumbersome tool when compared to the ADS, and in my opinion is not anywhere near an easy process to: (a) initially set up (b) use (c) amongst other things has quirks such as having to remain in super cruise whilst in use and being vulnerable to interdiction.
It amazes me why so many defend the FSS so fervently as well as resorting to being offensive to those who do not like using it. Despite what others say it does not enhance the game in its current format, it just adds an extra layer of complication to what was a straight forward procedure. I think a major rethink is required as I'm sure FD do not wish to alienate all their player base, that is those who dare to put their heads above the parapet and voice their concerns.

 

[Azirphaeli]

Unfortunately you are probably correct although it does not detract from the fact that the FSS is a cumbersome tool when compared to the ADS, and in my opinion is not anywhere near an easy process to: (a) initially set up (b) use (c) amongst other things has quirks such as having to remain in super cruise whilst in use and being vulnerable to interdiction.
It amazes me why so many defend the FSS so fervently as well as resorting to being offensive to those who do not like using it. Despite what others say it does not enhance the game in its current format, it just adds an extra layer of complication to what was a straight forward procedure. I think a major rethink is required as I'm sure FD do not wish to alienate all their player base, that is those who dare to put their heads above the parapet and voice their concerns.

Well yes, of course anything that involves playing the game will be more difficult to setup and use vs something that involves holding a button while yawning. That isn't an argument in favor of the old system since Elite is a game and thus expects you to play it using gameplay systems. That's akin to complaining about how they stopped obelisks from rewarding guardian blueprints (due to a mistake) because the process of solving the puzzles and getting the reward is "(a) more difficult to figure out and (b) complicated a task" vs just rolling up and scanning an object.

The goal of the FSS wasn't to "make the ADS better." It was to replace the ADS with gameplay.

It doesn't amaze me that I and others "defend" it. We enjoy it. We think it's a great new method of exploring that has brought some level of interaction to a large portion of the game that was effectively hands off prior. I can understand why some people don't like that change, we normally gravitate towards the path of least resistance afterall and the ADS one-press-omni-button sure fit that description but FDEV has made it clear that's not how they want to game to be played.

Meanwhile, you make declarative statements such as "it doesn't enhance the game" as though that makes it true. Maybe for you, perhaps, but not for us. Yes it complicates things by adding interaction, and that's a good thing in my book. That enhanced the game.

Also, it is amusing that you consider people being offensive when they explain why they like the FSS and why they don't want the ADS back in the game. Maybe, just maybe, it's because we like the system.

 

[Riverside]

Also the ADS did *need* to be removed because the developers of the game felt they *needed* to replace that garbage with actual gameplay and they get the final say.

They don't want to waste time and resources continuing to support something that they believe actively makes their game worse, something they'll have to do as they continue to expand exploration gameplay. Having to design any new gameplay systems, encounters, and events around people both using FSS and ADS is extra work, time, code, and bugs. Pretending like there's no cost to leaving it in the game is just nonsense. As such, the call to remove it was entirely required.

I can't quite believe how many times I'm having to say this but it didn't need to be removed. It shouldn't have been removed & Fdev need to fix that.

Use it, look at the payouts, think about how it works, and how the new system works.

It didn't need to be removed.

 

[Riverside]

You are not looking to continue to use an existing tool because that tool no longer exists, you want Frontier Devolpment to spend time and money re writing the code to bring back the now non existent tool in such a way that it works with all the new code they have written.

Your argument with with the Asp is not comparable because it hasn't been written out of the game, the old discovery and surface scanners have been.

You would do far better in the suggestion forums trying to get a module that automates the FSS included in the game as that is the only way you are likely to get one touch exploration back.

Fdev shouldn't have spent that time or money removing it in the first place, this is my point. It needs to be put back into the game.

 

[discocat]

Fdev shouldn't have spent that time or money removing it in the first place, this is my point. It needs to be put back into the game.

They made the design choice, as a team and with many meetings and tests probably, to specifically disable autofilling for the system map to force us to discover the system ourselves (and not with just one button press).

So, whether you like it or not, they won't put it back, it doesn't fit in their view for exploration. And as far as I know, even if they listen to the feedback, it's still their game and their choices.

The old mechanic shouldn't be put back, mainly cause it was no mechanic at all.

 

[Riverside]

They made the design choice, as a team and with many meetings and tests probably, to specifically disable autofilling for the system map to force us to discover the system ourselves (and not with just one button press).

So, whether you like it or not, they won't put it back, it doesn't fit in their view for exploration. And as far as I know, even if they listen to the feedback, it's still their game and their choices.

The old mechanic shouldn't be put back, mainly cause it was no mechanic at all.

There is no part of the discovery process where the ADS gives a significant advantage. In those areas where it does give an advantage the likelihood of those circumstances occurring are rare enough that it is not exploitable.

The new process has plenty going for it, but there was no need to remove the old one. There is no justification for removing it, there are no balancing issues, that some did not like it doesn't matter when the FSS is built in, because those that don't like it now have a choice not to use it.

The work done to remove it was a waste of effort that could have been directed elsewhere. Removing it doesn't sell more games, leaving it in wouldn't lose any sales.

 

[Eliphal]

There is no part of the discovery process where the ADS gives a significant advantage. In those areas where it does give an advantage the likelihood of those circumstances occurring are rare enough that it is not exploitable.

The new process has plenty going for it, but there was no need to remove the old one. There is no justification for removing it, there are no balancing issues, that some did not like it doesn't matter when the FSS is built in, because those that don't like it now have a choice not to use it.

The work done to remove it was a waste of effort that could have been directed elsewhere. Removing it doesn't sell more games, leaving it in wouldn't lose any sales.

You clearly don't understand how coding works. The more bits of code that interact with eachother, the higher the chance of bugs. Leaving it in would have been substantially more work than removing it. Since FSS and ADS have overlapping code, having both sets of code running side by side would be a *nightmare*. This is already a very buggy release, and you are arguing that they should have made a decision that would have resulted in *more* bugs.

As others have stated, you've kind of lost this battle. Even assuming FDev was going to take this conversation seriously, they would go "Hmmm, well we have 1, maybe 2, players arguing to bring back ADS, and about ten times that number arguing to NOT bring back ADS. Clearly ADS should stay out".

 

[Azirphaeli]

leaving it in wouldn't lose any sales.

Leaving it in means more work, time, and bugs in the future for any new content they add that function with both ADS and FSS, which is a waste.

 

[Riverside]

Leaving it in means more work, time, and bugs in the future for any new content they add that function with both ADS and FSS, which is a waste.

Can you quantify that or are you just making stuff up to suit your argument? There was no need to remove it, and no benefit to doing so.

 

[yianniv]

There is no part of the discovery process where the ADS gives a significant advantage. In those areas where it does give an advantage the likelihood of those circumstances occurring are rare enough that it is not exploitable.

The new process has plenty going for it, but there was no need to remove the old one. There is no justification for removing it, there are no balancing issues, that some did not like it doesn't matter when the FSS is built in, because those that don't like it now have a choice not to use it.

The work done to remove it was a waste of effort that could have been directed elsewhere. Removing it doesn't sell more games, leaving it in wouldn't lose any sales.

It definitely does give an advantage: speed. And you are active instead of passively traveling thousands of ls away to scan whatever planets the honk revealed. In the 1-2 minutes you use the FSS, even in 50+ body systems, you wouldn't have completed one gas giant with its satellites.

Even the separation from the main GUI is a plus: it makes ships like my Conda "manouverable" in FSS. And I play in Solo, so I don't have to worry about being interdicted. If, however, you want to be protected from interdictions, you can turn your ship's back towards the star, which apparently makes you un-iterdictable...

There is no comparison.

Yes, the only drawback I see is the initial time to set up the controls, but for kb + mouse use it's perfect: <A>, <D> for the signal tune, mouse for panning around, mouse scroll for zoom in-out and shift+mouse scroll for gradual zoom. <T> for targeting a body.

Oh, yes, with the FSS I can't watch videos at the same time because I'm busy enjoying the game.

I am really sorry you don't like it, but I think asking for the old system back is too selfish.