Patch Notes Update Update 3.3.01

[Azirphaeli]

Can you quantify that or are you just making stuff up to suit your argument? There was no need to remove it, and no benefit to doing so.

Yes, I can, it's obvious to anyone with development experience. With two systems in place for something, both systems need to be updated to accommodate new features, gameplay elements, events, triggers, etc... related to their purpose in the software. It's just how it works. The benefit to removing ADS is:

1) It's function did not align with FDEV's plans for exploration and...
2) Leaving it in the game would result in additional ongoing work maintaining it as the game continues to grow and expand.

For an example, look at how VR was broken in beta and launch. Lots of new stuff was added, and due to differences in 2d v 3d the two types of displays resulted in one getting less attention and launching in a buggy and broken state. The same would be true of ADS v FSS and unlike VR, the ADS doesn't add enough to the game (in fact actively takes away from it) to the point the extra work cannot be justified.

 

[Riverside]

I am really sorry you don't like it, but I think asking for the old system back is too selfish.

I have nothing against the new system, I think you have misinterpreted my post.

The new system has a lot going for it, but there was no need to remove the old one. Removing it was a waste of time. Had it not been removed there would be no issues that removing it would solve, and it would take nothing away from the new discovery process. I hope that it clearer.

 

[Riverside]

Leaving it in would be horribly inconsistent in that it leaves certain aspects of the FSS not only redundant but offers the more convenient method of the two. With that idea you would fall through any respectable game designer test...

It would not be inconsistent, it would be the opposite picommander. It would not affect your game in any way. Removing it affects mine. If it were justified I would understand but having looked into it it is not justified, it should not have been removed.

I am looking forward to this being rectified, it will not affect you, and I wish no one any ill will.

 

[Sole Trader]

Well yes, of course anything that involves playing the game will be more difficult to setup and use vs something that involves holding a button while yawning. That isn't an argument in favor of the old system since Elite is a game and thus expects you to play it using gameplay systems. That's akin to complaining about how they stopped obelisks from rewarding guardian blueprints (due to a mistake) because the process of solving the puzzles and getting the reward is "(a) more difficult to figure out and (b) complicated a task" vs just rolling up and scanning an object.

The goal of the FSS wasn't to "make the ADS better." It was to replace the ADS with gameplay.

It doesn't amaze me that I and others "defend" it. We enjoy it. We think it's a great new method of exploring that has brought some level of interaction to a large portion of the game that was effectively hands off prior. I can understand why some people don't like that change, we normally gravitate towards the path of least resistance afterall and the ADS one-press-omni-button sure fit that description but FDEV has made it clear that's not how they want to game to be played.

Meanwhile, you make declarative statements such as "it doesn't enhance the game" as though that makes it true. Maybe for you, perhaps, but not for us. Yes it complicates things by adding interaction, and that's a good thing in my book. That enhanced the game.

Also, it is amusing that you consider people being offensive when they explain why they like the FSS and why they don't want the ADS back in the game. Maybe, just maybe, it's because we like the system.

I rest my case, these are the sort of condescending replies I was referring to, you just can't except that there are flaws with the FSS, and that others do not like using it for the reasons I stated.

In my opinion it will not entice players who have not gone exploring to try it out, it's just too over complicated and the FSS doesn't enhance gameplay as you claim, it's just tedious and you talk about holding the button and yawning. Also I wasn't claiming that the FSS was intended to make the ADS better as you state, it was ok just as it was for me. FD should have added the FSS as an additional tool for those players who wanted to gain more system information at source on arrival, indeed I think the new discovery scanner process is great and perhaps that's all that was needed to enhance exploration as it has now provides planetary points of interest for the real explorers, those that is who actually go to the planet.

 

[Riverside]

Yes, I can, it's obvious to anyone with development experience. With two systems in place for something, both systems need to be updated to accommodate new features, gameplay elements, events, triggers, etc... related to their purpose in the software. It's just how it works. The benefit to removing ADS is:

1) It's function did not align with FDEV's plans for exploration and...
2) Leaving it in the game would result in additional ongoing work maintaining it as the game continues to grow and expand.

For an example, look at how VR was broken in beta and launch. Lots of new stuff was added, and due to differences in 2d v 3d the two types of displays resulted in one getting less attention and launching in a buggy and broken state. The same would be true of ADS v FSS and unlike VR, the ADS doesn't add enough to the game (in fact actively takes away from it) to the point the extra work cannot be justified.

You are thinking of two separate systems. It would be one system with branches, just as we have for fixed/gimbaled/turreted weapons, or multiple layers of mining, or any number of other optional gameplay elements. There was no need to remove it.

In terms of maintenance cost we have here a significant fixed outlay to offset an insignificant variable cost. These two costs are not known, they play no part in my disappointment that the pre-3.3 discovery process has not been reinstated and there are no figures available to second guess the removal of the ADS based on it's ongoing maintenance cost.

 

[Azirphaeli]

I rest my case, these are the sort of condescending replies I was referring to, you just can't except that there are flaws with the FSS, and that others do not like using it for the reasons I stated.

Nonsense, at no point did I say it was perfect nor did I say everyone loves it. I explained why the ADS was replaced with a gameplay system and why it's obviously going to be more complicated *because* it is a gameplay system.

It's just too over complicated and the FSS doesn't enhance gameplay as you claim, it's just tedious and you talk about holding the button and yawning.

For *you*. Which is my point. "Doesn't enhance gameplay" is subjective so you don't get to go around declaring it as fact. It enhances the gameplay immesnely for myself and many others.

You are thinking of two separate systems. It would be one system with branches, just as we have for fixed/gimbaled/turreted weapons, or multiple layers of mining, or any number of other optional gameplay elements. There was no need to remove it.

There is, because all those systems also are tied together to different functions and events and need to be updated all the time each time new things are added. The difference is that they add significant varied gameplay to combat that makes them worth the extra work of keeping them. ADS adds very little, for some it adds negative value, at the same cost of maintaining a redundant system.

This may not play a role in your disappointment, but they play a major role in FDEV's design descisions for the game, as they do in the design decision process for any piece of software.

 

[Rojo Habe]

Guys, give it a rest!

Or at least find a more appropriate thread.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Frontier always on the front line. +1

 

[Titler]

Thanks for the great work on the patch FDEV, I can't wait to visit stellar phenomena now that it won't crash in VR. Hopefully the clouds also render in both eyes.. right? Right?

Also, please never bring back the old ADS and continue to focus on improving and expanding the new method of exploration. It doesn't need to come back, it was a terrible mechanic, and bringing it back is a waste of dev resources.

My experiences over the last few years elsewhere have lead me to conclude that there's nothing more sickening than those who believe their own "support" for a game allows them to selfishly campaign and be toxic against those who have genuine concerns, because they think their "positivity", or just siding with the more powerful not only excuses their hypocrisy but makes them the final arbitrator on who is welcome within the game...

But it's also the surest way to drive off the rest of the audience: The kind of obsessive "love" that chokes it's recipient to death. You're not helping the game or anything else by refusing to let it engage other people on their own terms.

As for the debate at hand; once more, if you're travelling thousands of systems to genuinely explore places no one else has been before, the having to use the FSS adds minutes to your journey time at every step, just to know what was in the system. Even if you can claim only seconds to see if a particular single body is on the wavescanner, under the old system you could visually see whether an object itself was likely to be excessively big/small by the relative scaling of the icon. Now you cannot. Now you have to do the full FSS zoom to even see it. That is objectively slower.

Maybe some of you who have wrapped far too much of your identity up in this game have the kind of lives where you can sit grinding at a computer for days on end; and when you that's all you have, yes I understand why you're going to want to defend grinding a mini game above convenience or actual tests of skill. But it's not gameplay.

Meanwhile has there been any clarification on whether the BGS is actually fixed? Is it safe to try and play that part of the game without screwing over your own faction?

 

[Konan]

it was ok just as it was for me.

It was not just okay for me. The new method is more engaging to me. I feel more li!e an astronomer using his equipment to find different signal sources. I get 100 more times enjoyment from the new method. The old method was boring and a one handed blind chimp could have used it. I'm sorry you don't like the new method. You are a small dissenting voice against a chorus of praises for the new method. Your opinion is just that. An opinion. Not a fact. But it IS a fact that the majority like it better and are glad the old system is gone. End of story.

 

[Konan]

As far as I'm concerned, it was one of the best moves they've ever made. I love the new system.

 

[K M Butler]

Konan has it right.

 

[Riverside]

But it IS a fact that the majority like it better and are glad the old system is gone. End of story.

Yes the new process has a lot going for it. But the old one didn't need to be removed for you to have the same experience you now enjoy.

 

[Sole Trader]

Yes the new process has a lot going for it. But the old one didn't need to be removed for you to have the same experience you now enjoy.

Nice one, succinctly put.

 

[Daish]

Many Many bugs still remain!!! there are plenty of bug pages to go through, I do hope in coming months that 70% + of frontier time is spent more on fixing all known issues, rather than creating new content, to further add to the issues.

It's time that the long term bug fixer guys take over. For the sake of the game.

 

[yianniv]

This is not true if you don't take into account how someone explores. If you were detail scanning any main star before (with the ADS mechanics), you had to point your ship's nose to the star, while fuel scooping on the limit is very dangerous with this method and cooling down for the next jump takes longer. With the FSS you don't need that anymore, as the initial honk already does the detail scan of the main star (and any other nearby massive objects btw.) so you can fuel scoop on the periphery while getting a quick overview if the system is worth to examine or not. So I'm definitely winning time. This is with an engineered DBX, a ship like the Conda with a giant fuel scoop might give you not enough time to scan while scooping...

Anyway, I'm now 1819KLy away from home in the Formidine Rift and definitely faster than I ever was with the old ADS. And that with quite some full system scans and surface scans as well. Depending on current mood I'm cherry-picking fast forward or do the whole system scan. Once you are comfortable with the FSS you can very quickly find what you are looking for.

At least with a DBX the new system is the clear winner in my book.

Hey, we are prectically neighbours: I'm in the Aicong region (in that conda you mentioned). A very enjoyable experience, I must say. I am getting the "one more system" syndrome.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

This is somewhat typical some people are complaining about "not enough new stuff" others then complain when you get new stuff...Whatever developers do some people are always complaining. Btw. I like new system.

 

[Riverside]

This is somewhat typical some people are complaining about "not enough new stuff" others then complain when you get new stuff...Whatever developers do some people are always complaining. Btw. I like new system.

The issue is not with the new stuff being added, it is that the old stuff was removed when it didn't need to be.

 

[DaSucker]

It was not just okay for me. The new method is more engaging to me. I feel more li!e an astronomer using his equipment to find different signal sources. I get 100 more times enjoyment from the new method. The old method was boring and a one handed blind chimp could have used it. I'm sorry you don't like the new method. You are a small dissenting voice against a chorus of praises for the new method. Your opinion is just that. An opinion. Not a fact. But it IS a fact that the majority like it better and are glad the old system is gone. End of story.

+1
So much this!
Have a rep!

 

[ruger_shooter]

So what is wrong with the servers today? Unable to make a connection?