General Update the Crime and Punishment to not be to heavy towards PVE

Deleted member 192138

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I have never yet deliberately shot at a Clean ship. If a pilot, NPC or otherwise, is dumb enough to fly into my line of fire, that should be on him, not me.

And Notoriety wasn't the law until complaints about griefers and gankers pushed the devs into introducing a Crime and Punishment system. Who thinks they did a good job? Not me flying around in Solo, for sure.
I forgot what a riot this thread was. Imagine in the real world:

"I have never yet deliberately run over a pedestrian. If a person is dumb enough to cross the road when I'm driving, that should be on him, not me."
 
While the changes to C&P were clearly influenced by demands from certain quarters to be made to deter ganking, that wasn't the only reason for the changes.

Prior to the changes there was no real deterrent to being a bad boy in PvE as well. You could go commit crimes with impunity and then just wipe them like notihng happened.

Perhaps ATR needs a buff, as i understand most gankers just laugh at them. But otherwise, there is now a good deterrent to being a bad boy, but, one that doesn't stop you doing stuff if you plan carefully. For a start, don't take missions from a station which will get you wanted at that station! That's just silly. But if you inisist, at least have a clean ship parked elsewhere to switch to for your glorious return.
 
While the changes to C&P were clearly influenced by demands from certain quarters to be made to deter ganking, that wasn't the only reason for the changes.

Prior to the changes there was no real deterrent to being a bad boy in PvE as well. You could go commit crimes with impunity and then just wipe them like notihng happened.

Perhaps ATR needs a buff, as i understand most gankers just laugh at them. But otherwise, there is now a good deterrent to being a bad boy, but, one that doesn't stop you doing stuff if you plan carefully. For a start, don't take missions from a station which will get you wanted at that station! That's just silly. But if you inisist, at least have a clean ship parked elsewhere to switch to for your glorious return.
It needs some players to compromise on a cargo ship with nothing but racks. Some of the builds out there are really not set up for any combat against players. In a recent battle against a player Corvette who attacked one of our guys, the shield was down in less than 2 minutes and a single salvo of frags took the hull down to less than 50% and wiped out the FSD. That was supposed to be a PvP ship.
 
It needs some players to compromise on a cargo ship with nothing but racks. Some of the builds out there are really not set up for any combat against players. In a recent battle against a player Corvette who attacked one of our guys, the shield was down in less than 2 minutes and a single salvo of frags took the hull down to less than 50% and wiped out the FSD. That was supposed to be a PvP ship.
And that was 2 MINUTES. There are ships out there that last 2 seconds 😂
 
Only those wishing to engage in roles other than combat would need to compromise their build - which seems a little one-sided, to me at least.
Perhaps, but as things are now I see little alternative if you want to stay in open without blocking anyone.

Alternatives exist of course.

At the moment, even if ATR jump in at the same moment a crime is committed, whether it's PvE or PvP there's generally enough time to finish killing off a weakly built ship before jumping out.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Perhaps, but as things are now I see little alternative if you want to stay in open without blocking anyone.
For those wishing to play in Open, just as the player can choose to shoot at anything they instance with, they can also choose to block any player they wish to - there's no restriction on either.
Alternatives exist of course.
In terms of game modes, there's no alternative to Open with an unlimited population.
At the moment, even if ATR jump in at the same moment a crime is committed, whether it's PvE or PvP there's generally enough time to finish killing off a weakly built ship before jumping out.
Quite. Which makes the case for ATR persistently following the CMDR they jumped in to deal with.
 
Believe it or not, I'm quite happy with the crime and punishment as it is. I would however make two small changes; -

1. You only gain notoriety if destroy another player ship. outside powerplay rules and anarchy systems.
2. If you have notoriety and you're in a non-Anarchy system; you appear on the galaxy map as a red icon (similar to how people on your friend's list appear). That means players can may the choice to risk a run a system with known player killer in it. It also gives away your position to player bounty hunters, That should give you enough PvP to keep your little black heart satisfied! 😁
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
2. If you have notoriety and you're in a non-Anarchy system; you appear on the galaxy map as a red icon (similar to how people on your friend's list appear). That means players can may the choice to risk a run a system with known player killer in it. It also gives away your position to player bounty hunters, That should give you enough PvP to keep your little black heart satisfied! 😁
I'd take it a bit further in terms of augmenting the information provided by the scanner - as the scanner takes into account Pilots' Federation membership when displaying targets, the same feed from the PF could be used to specifically highlight CMDRs who destroy clean CMDRs.
 
In terms of game modes, there's no alternative to Open with an unlimited population.
I was including blocking as an alternative. It wouldn't be my choice and to be honest I wouldn't want to be in an instance with someone who did have a huge block list, but regardless of my own opinions, it exists.
Quite. Which makes the case for ATR persistently following the CMDR they jumped in to deal with.
I'd agree. The ability to low waking to avoid them (mass lock not a problem as I've only come across Vultures) is too easy. I don't know if much could be done to keep persistence if you did jump out the system, but they shouldn't give up because you've gone into SC.

Generally, the time taken for ATR to appear after commiting the first crime is a reminder for me to go and reload.
 
I'd take it a bit further in terms of augmenting the information provided by the scanner - as the scanner takes into account Pilots' Federation membership when displaying targets, the same feed from the PF could be used to specifically highlight CMDRs who destroy clean CMDRs.
I have been attacked by clean CMDRs before now, this would punish me for defending myself if I was the one who won.

I also fly with crimes off due to frequently running illegal missions and sys sec are a liability on occasion as well, so that may well muddy the waters here.
 
Just use a dedicated "criminal" ships to do your bad deeds, the devs even made bounties attack to ships instead of pilots to make this easier. No need to run to IF every time you intentionally break the law.

Once you finish your no-good activities, stash the wanted ship and use a clean one for do-good activities. Take out the "bad guy" ship when you're again up to no-good.

Planetary scans missions in particular, you just need a cheap eagle or hauler, you can even scan the targets from the ship, then stash the dirty eagle / hauler when you're finished.
 
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Just use dedicated "criminal" ships to do your bad deeds, the devs even made bounties attack to ships instead of pilots to make this easier. No need to run to IF every time you intentionally break the law.

Once you finish your no-good activities, stash the wanted ship and use a clean one for do-good activities. Take out the "bad guy" ship when you're again up to no-good. Planetary scans missions in particular, you just need a cheap eagle or hauler, you can even scan the targets from the ship, then stash the dirty eagle / hauler when you're finished.
I usually clean my scanning ship once I get a superpower bounty since those attract attention if they get much higher than the minimum threshold.

Other bounties get cleaned "when I get around to it". There's no point in doing it urgently if you're trying to be stealthy since the bounty boards don't actually get updated when you use an IF, only if your bounty is claimed or someone else subsequently earns a bounty. In quiet areas I've been on the bounty board for days before vanishing since it took that long for someone to commit another crime in the jurisdiction.
 
Look up United Kingdom. There are no jaywalking laws in the UK. ED was made by a UK company.

And there is no jaywalking or walking in ED yet. The PP made an analogy and i showed how that analogy could be subverted.

Maybe we can revisit this analogy when FD add space legs and consider its relevance if someone runs over someone on a road while driving a SRV :p
 
There's no point in doing it urgently if you're trying to be stealthy since the bounty boards don't actually get updated when you use an IF, only if your bounty is claimed or someone else subsequently earns a bounty. In quiet areas I've been on the bounty board for days before vanishing since it took that long for someone to commit another crime in the jurisdiction.

In Colonia even less. Most leader boards start at 500k or so. It was hard work to get my bgs ship onto on of them.
 
No, just an inevitable occasional accident that disrupts my playtime to no good purpose.
gimballed :) and stop shooting at random speckles :)

on topic: i had one mission that gave me two Fines, one for mission the other for carrying illicit cargo from the mission.couldn't completed the illicit cargo so sold it to black market and get anotherr fine
 
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I have been attacked by clean CMDRs before now, this would punish me for defending myself if I was the one who won.

I also fly with crimes off due to frequently running illegal missions and sys sec are a liability on occasion as well, so that may well muddy the waters here.

That's your fault for not reporting the crime though.

The legal system doesn't care about self defence, it cares a out who committed a crime, and if you choose not to report a crime, then fire on someone who hasn't been reported as a criminal, they can report it.
 

Deleted member 192138

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Look up jaywalking laws.
In the UK, there are no laws against jaywalking. Motorists have to give priority to more vulnerable road users and you're required to be alert to risks and hazards. You would fail your test if you're inattentive and ignorant to the potential of pedestrians stepping into the road without checking properly.

If you go to a gun range and someone is between you and your target, are you expected to carry on shooting or be alert and aware of risks and capable of holding fire?
 
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